Transmission drain and fill using valvoline max life atf at 245k miles on my Volvo XC90

lincolnshibuya · Sep 15, 2021

Just did a trans fill and drain to flush my old fluid out. I only have 2 jugs of max life atf so I only did 2 flushes. I have to buy 2 jugs again to make the fluid more acceptable.

The fill plug can be accessed by removing the air box and leaving the computer connected by just unbolting the 4 torx screws that holds it (so that you don't have to disconnect/reconnect battery when running through the gears after each fill)

What I noticed is that it shifted better after the 2 flushes

Buy the valvoline max life atf at Walmart, they are $17 a jug while the parts store are charging at $28.

I used the Autel MaxiAP2000 to monitor the trans oil temp which should be between 50-60C when doing the correct level at the last fill. It takes a while to warm it up from 39C initially, so it was dark when I started to drain the excess.

ChitownV · Sep 15, 2021

Oh here we go again. Why MaxLife instead of the OEM type fluids? There have been bad experiences with MaxLife in the 6spd Aisin transmissions when compared to using the required JWS3309 (Type-IV) or JWS3324 (WS) specs.

Please give your reasons for recommending MaxLife and making a youtube video on it, which could negatively affect those who are going to do transmission fluid changes. Do you have tens of thousands of miles using it? Will you have to shorten the change interval if there is more media suspended in the fluid using MaxLife? What about the viscosity specs? etc.?

lincolnshibuya · Sep 15, 2021

I have good experience using valvoline max life in my cars, I've used it my high mileage bmw and mercedes. No issues with it. If there are people that experienced transmission crapping out because of using valvoline max life then we need real facts (the whole story) and not anecdotal evidence on the internet.

Do your own research on what's best on your vehicle especially if you have lower mileage.

If my transmission blows up anytime soon I'll post updates about so that it will warn people that max life atf is bad and stick to oem.

Just trying to break the myth of not doing transmission flush at (very) high miles since it's not broken and there are other alternatives besides oem.

ggleavitt · Sep 15, 2021

The GEN1 XC90 was sold from 2003 to 2014 and transmission fluid has been WELL discussed over the years. Use whatever you want and feel free to promote your opinion like everyone else, just don't be surprised if others who might have been on these forums for a while have an opinion that's different than yours.

Not sure who on this forum is suggesting a point by which you don't swap fluid, more that some folk do a drain/fill versus a pump-out for the higher mileage vehicles. Procedure and caveats have also been well documented (such as the move to AW fluid standard for latter model year 6-speed transmissions).

Much of what you're doing is noted in the How-To stickie- OFFICIAL: XC90 Part Number & "How to" Thread | SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum and a number of those posts have been there for quite some time. Have not had the chance to see any of your videos but you might find that much of what you're doing for the first time has already been posted more than once (XC90 forum or one of the other P2 forums).

All the best with your vehicle.

ChitownV · Sep 15, 2021

I have also used MaxLife on BMWs and Mercedes vehicles, but that depends on the transmissions. Almost any 4-speed transmission used in BMW and Mercedes does well with MaxLife because they called for Dexron (I, II, or III), with some exceptions (but I've had better luck with Castrol Transmax). Some 5spd (some can take Dex VI), all 6spd, all 8spd transmissions I have done fluid changes on in BMWs and Mercedes called for specific specs, such as using the ZF Lifeguard (6,8) or Shell ATF 134 (236.14) fluids. Some people use LiquiMoly or other full synthetic fluids, but these multi-spec fluids are generally thinner than a JWS3309 (Toyota T-IV) spec.

I have done my research on MaxLife in Volvo's Aisin 6 speed transmission. Here's some, but there are more that go back years:

Transmission Doing Weird things after Trans Fluid Change

Hi all, I have a 2012 XC90 3.2 6sp with 80,000km (50,000m). I had the trans fluid flushed and changed properly at a local Indy and now there are some quirks developing: Shudder at low speed in lower gear Sometimes under hard acceleration hesitation and then whumps into gear. Is this thing...

www.swedespeed.com

tf-80sc valve body swap woes

Hi every body. New volvo owner here looking for some help. A little back ground, I have always done my own car repairs and maintenace since I got my first car at 14. I worked in a general repair shop and two years in a transmission shop while going to colledge. I worked as a mechanic at a...

www.swedespeed.com

Here's some info on how MaxLife is thinner in the hot temp viscosity compared to JWS 3309 (T-IV)

Manual shift mode problem

I’ve asked this before in the past my manual shift mode now only goes into first gear I’m careful not to use it anymore and I’m lucky I never put it in the manual shift mode at anything more than 10 miles an hour it has been acting up so I know I need to be careful but I really want it back...

www.swedespeed.com

lincolnshibuya · Sep 16, 2021

ChitownV said:
I have also used MaxLife on BMWs and Mercedes vehicles, but that depends on the transmissions. Almost any 4-speed transmission used in BMW and Mercedes does well with MaxLife because they called for Dexron (I, II, or III), with some exceptions (but I've had better luck with Castrol Transmax). Some 5spd (some can take Dex VI), all 6spd, all 8spd transmissions I have done fluid changes on in BMWs and Mercedes called for specific specs, such as using the ZF Lifeguard (6,8) or Shell ATF 134 (236.14) fluids. Some people use LiquiMoly or other full synthetic fluids, but these multi-spec fluids are generally thinner than a JWS3309 (Toyota T-IV) spec.

I have done my research on MaxLife in Volvo's Aisin 6 speed transmission. Here's some, but there are more that go back years:

Transmission Doing Weird things after Trans Fluid Change

Hi all, I have a 2012 XC90 3.2 6sp with 80,000km (50,000m). I had the trans fluid flushed and changed properly at a local Indy and now there are some quirks developing: Shudder at low speed in lower gear Sometimes under hard acceleration hesitation and then whumps into gear. Is this thing...

www.swedespeed.com

tf-80sc valve body swap woes

Hi every body. New volvo owner here looking for some help. A little back ground, I have always done my own car repairs and maintenace since I got my first car at 14. I worked in a general repair shop and two years in a transmission shop while going to colledge. I worked as a mechanic at a...

www.swedespeed.com

Here's some info on how MaxLife is thinner in the hot temp viscosity compared to JWS 3309 (T-IV)

Manual shift mode problem

I’ve asked this before in the past my manual shift mode now only goes into first gear I’m careful not to use it anymore and I’m lucky I never put it in the manual shift mode at anything more than 10 miles an hour it has been acting up so I know I need to be careful but I really want it back...

www.swedespeed.com

I'll post updates on how my transmission works after several miles this week.

Good research anyway but do you searched for people who used valvoline max life and has no issues at all or it's just only me with a very high mileage that saw improvements instead of issues? looks like the one you posted have existing transmission issues or shop/diy made a mess in the procedure.

John C · Sep 16, 2021

It's the lightning rod effect. Most people don't make "I changed my trans fluid and nothing bad happened" posts. Or, "I was having problems and I used the world's most expensive fluid available and am still having problems."

Monocog007 · Sep 16, 2021

lincolnshibuya said:
I'll post updates on how my transmission works after several miles this week.

Good research anyway but do you searched for people who used valvoline max life and has no issues at all or it's just only me with a very high mileage that saw improvements instead of issues? looks like the one you posted have existing transmission issues or shop/diy made a mess in the procedure.

I have personal experience with Maxlife in my XC90 TF80. I ran ~8 quarts through my transmission at ~125k miles when I bought it. Followed the drain/fill procedure with VIDA. Had some mild shudder when the transmission would come out of TC lockup when slowing down for stop signs/lights. Less than 1000 miles after that, I switched back to T-WS fluid (Idemitsu TLS-LV) by flushing ~16 quarts through. No more shifting issues to speak of.

Did I personally cause these problems I experienced with Maxlife? I doubt it. Did Maxlife grenade my transmission? No. Would it have been fine to leave it in there? No idea. Was I glad to have switched back to approved fluid? Yes, absolutely.

Edit: I'll mention again what I did in another thread - my local Autozone has Idemitsu TLS-LV on sale for $2 a quart. I've bought 20 quarts at this point, because I know I'll need it with the towing I do. At that price it's way cheaper than Maxlife, and approved by Aisin/Volvo.

ChitownV · Sep 16, 2021

John C said:
It's the lightning rod effect. Most people don't make "I changed my trans fluid and nothing bad happened" posts. Or, "I was having problems and I used the world's most expensive fluid available and am still having problems."

What fluid did you change your own transmission with? What was the result?

ChitownV · Sep 16, 2021

Monocog007 said:
I have personal experience with Maxlife in my XC90 TF80. I ran ~8 quarts through my transmission at ~125k miles when I bought it. Followed the drain/fill procedure with VIDA. Had some mild shudder when the transmission would come out of TC lockup when slowing down for stop signs/lights. Less than 1000 miles after that, I switched back to T-WS fluid (Idemitsu TLS-LV) by flushing ~16 quarts through. No more shifting issues to speak of.

Did I personally cause these problems I experienced with Maxlife? I doubt it. Did Maxlife grenade my transmission? No. Would it have been fine to leave it in there? No idea. Was I glad to have switched back to approved fluid? Yes, absolutely.

Edit: I'll mention again what I did in another thread - my local Autozone has Idemitsu TLS-LV on sale for $2 a quart. I've bought 20 quarts at this point, because I know I'll need it with the towing I do. At that price it's way cheaper than Maxlife, and approved by Aisin/Volvo.

That's a very good price for WS fluid!

Based on lincolnshibuya's rear hatch narrow Volvo tag, it appears to be 2008 or older, so that would indicate the fluid spec is JWS 3309 (T-IV), which has a higher (100C) viscosity than both MaxLife and WS.

RyanR · Sep 17, 2021

I'll be blunt: This is a very bad idea. MaxLife has even dropped their 3309 compatibility. I've had several friends destroy Volvo transmissions with this fluid. Why? Because no fluid can be one size fits all.

-Ryan

John C · Sep 17, 2021

RyanR said:
MaxLife has even dropped their 3309 compatibility.

Click on the link for "PI Sheet"

There seems to be anecdotal evidence of issues tied to using this fluid in the TF80 trans, but the recommendations do not appear to have been rescinded. Would I recommend it? No, I wouldn't, but I wouldn't call anyone who used it an idiot, either.

ChitownV · Sep 17, 2021

John C said:
Click on the link for "PI Sheet"

There seems to be anecdotal evidence of issues tied to using this fluid in the TF80 trans, but the recommendations do not appear to have been rescinded. Would I recommend it? No, I wouldn't, but I wouldn't call anyone who used it an idiot, either.

What have you used in your own transmission? What were the results?

generic_volvo_driver · Sep 17, 2021

I love MaxLife in Acuras (TL, TL Type S A-Spec, RDX, RDX SH-AWD diff), Fords (Windstar ATF and PS and friend's Explorer's ATF and PS), Miata power steering and 80s Nissans (300ZX Turbo ATF and PS). I single stock MaxLife ATF and use it on all those applications.
The Acuras and the Fords overheat their ATF (MaxLife is better at resisting the effects of heat). Miata and Nissan uses Dexron II which isn't made anymore (works great as PS).

All my/family Volvos use 3324 and I have had great luck using Toyota WS. I can purchase Toyota WS at cost in my city.

If you check my post history you'll see I've done a deep dive into the TF-80SC generation 1 vs 2 and 3309 vs 3324. I posted my findings, my objectives, my biases and all the aspects I considered.
My research pointed me to stick with a quality 3324 fluid. I plan to keep using Toyota WS given the price I can purchase it at.

While your at it, service the Haldex fluid and filter. You can use VAG Haldex Quattro/4Motion fluid or Volvo Haldex fluid (there is no aftermarket). You can purchase the filter kit from Volvo or Rock Auto sells one cheap these days but it's a Chinese made filter. I picked up the Rock Auto filter just as a curiosity. It seems good enough quality - no complaints. I've installed a Volvo OEM filter as that's all that existed when I changed my Haldex fluid last on my Haldex 4 XC90.
Also remember your angle gear and rear diff. I use 75W-90 AMSOIL Severe Gear (I buy it by the easy-pack case and use it for all sorts of on and off road applications).

lincolnshibuya · Sep 17, 2021

I just did my 3rd drain and fill and posted a followup video on how my transmission is blowing up

ChitownV · Sep 18, 2021

How many miles do you have on the MaxLife?

Your videos say changing fluid at 245k miles? Your dash says 119k miles. Please clarify.

It's your choice on the fluid and people here gave their insight and experience. If you choose to keep it in there, good luck.

RyanR · Sep 18, 2021

John C said:
Click on the link for "PI Sheet"

There seems to be anecdotal evidence of issues tied to using this fluid in the TF80 trans, but the recommendations do not appear to have been rescinded. Would I recommend it? No, I wouldn't, but I wouldn't call anyone who used it an idiot, either.

If it's 3309 is there, it's back. A friend of mine noticed it was gone after his Maxlife experience had him swapping a transmission (after the valve body) in his driveway a number of years ago. This is a guy who put himself through school at a transmission shop..... now he runs IT at a major university. Other friends have had trouble with this fluid as well.

Where did I call anyone an idiot? I was blunt. You get blunt when you make a YouTube video on something.

This forum has a history of being brutal to each other over ATF.... specifically, two flavors that were the factory fill for the same transmission. We've had scathing exchanges here that resulted in folks doing deep dives into the research.... and we all walked away at least a bit more intelligent for it. This is probably the most cheerful thread on ATF I've ever seen here.

-Ryan

John C · Sep 18, 2021

RyanR said:
Where did I call anyone an idiot?

Not you. And, to be fair, no one actually used the word "idiot".

I was blunt. You get blunt when you make a YouTube video on something.

I've never made a youtube video, so I wouldn't know. All I was pointing out is that Valvoline still recommends MaxLife for transmissions calling for 3309. I'm sure if they had reason to believe there was an issue they would remove the recommendation rather than risk defending themselves against a lawsuit. The cost of one transmission eats up the profit for a lot of jugs of ATF.

The internet is rife with claims that product A caused failure B. Is there a true cause and effect? Who knows. What there is is a dearth of scientific testing. There's enough anecdotal evidence that I wouldn't recommend MaxLife for this application, and I wouldn't hesitate to say so, but I wouldn't try to shame someone else who used it. (Again, not you). You can simply say that you know of a number of people who experienced problems after switching to MaxLife and leave it at that. It would be interesting (and educational) to see if the transmission that fixed itself after changing back to 3309 would now work fine on MaxLife, but that's an experiment we're not likely to see the results of.

Capndirk · Sep 18, 2021

I'm interested to see how it goes in the long term. I went full Kool-Aid with Toyota Type IV the first time, and genuine Aisin the second time. I just hate going back over ground I covered because there's a product problem. I do enough "re-do's" due to my own mistakes

To me, the scariest thing about the fluid is that it also lubes the output drive gears. It's not just about hydraulic properties. I've overhauled enough automatics to know I don't want to do the one on my XC90.
There's a good Rumanian YouTube video on the TF-80SC. Lot of info, there.

RyanR · Sep 18, 2021

John C said:
Not you. And, to be fair, no one actually used the word "idiot".
I've never made a youtube video, so I wouldn't know. All I was pointing out is that Valvoline still recommends MaxLife for transmissions calling for 3309. I'm sure if they had reason to believe there was an issue they would remove the recommendation rather than risk defending themselves against a lawsuit. The cost of one transmission eats up the profit for a lot of jugs of ATF.

The internet is rife with claims that product A caused failure B. Is there a true cause and effect? Who knows. What there is is a dearth of scientific testing. There's enough anecdotal evidence that I wouldn't recommend MaxLife for this application, and I wouldn't hesitate to say so, but I wouldn't try to shame someone else who used it. (Again, not you). You can simply say that you know of a number of people who experienced problems after switching to MaxLife and leave it at that. It would be interesting (and educational) to see if the transmission that fixed itself after changing back to 3309 would now work fine on MaxLife, but that's an experiment we're not likely to see the results of.

Basically, YouTube is unforgiving in the comments. I've got a few videos up there, just to fill a perceived void, and you get the full range of human emotions in the comments. Fortunately, most people cut me some slack, but a few folks like to go right for the jugular.

I was thinking the same thing as your second paragraph in my last reply, but deleted it before posting. My thoughts weren't gelling. Still aren't. What you say is 100% correct. All we have is anecdotal evidence. The other side of that coin that I suddenly wondered is, can we have anything other than anecdotal evidence given the nature of what we're talking about? I'm genuinely posing that question as a question.

Indeed, all we can do is go on what we've got so far and be glad some folks are willing to put all their chips into the pot further experiment.

-Ryan

Transmission drain and fill using valvoline max life atf at 245k miles on my Volvo XC90

lincolnshibuya

ChitownV

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ChitownV

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