[ChitownV]

Thanks for the response. I am exploring JWS3309 spec ATF brands. Mobil ATF 3309 seems to be popular. I would consider Ravenol Synthetic T-IV too, after reading your review.

The question at this moment is the longevity of the additives in the (friction modifiers, anti foaming agents etc), purely based on time since oxidation of the oil itself is visible through darkening of the ATF color. In other words, does ATF additives go bad with time irrespective of milage.

For which transmission and vehicle?
If you are in doubt about the fluid, change it. You can never change your fluid too early; it will only help.

Even if you are going to go with Ravenol Synthetic, I normally suggest to do one fluid changeover with conventional to remove as much old fluid, floating media, and contaminates as possible. The Ravenol Synthetic can stay in for a long time, it will last. Germany has stricter labeling rules, so if it’s labeled synthetic, it is a higher Group 4 fluid or better.

For the TF-80SC, Ravenol works extremely well. You won’t find a bad review with Ravenol in the TF-80SC. For the 5-speeds, the TCU programming with Mobil 3309 or other conventional might work better. YMMV. For both, reset the fluid counter.

 

[ChitownV]

Here’s another reason to use Synthetic Ravenol T-IV. Remember, Germany restricts the use of the Synthetic label only for group IV oils, which is a true Synthetic, PAO here.

Ravenol T-IV, made in Germany, is a Synthetic that is much higher quality than conventional JWS-3309/T-IV fluids. I and others have talked about the consistency in driving in all temps & miles, and how the transmission performs better compared to conventional fluids. Faster shifting, better cold shifting, better hot shifting, and better longevity. Now we can see how high quality Synthetic transmission fluids do better.

Here’s a video for Dexron VI. Mobil is the only Synth-blend in this video, while the others are Synthetic, but the Redline is a clear high quality Synthetic. The Synthetic Redline behaves like my experience using Ravenol in the TF-80SC 6-speed transmission. The quality spread between Synthetic Ravenol T-IV and conventional Mobil 3309 must be much wider than seen in this video between Redline and others. Oils are not all the same.

 

[Thommykent]

The quality spread between Synthetic Ravenol T-IV and conventional Mobil 3309 must be much wider than seen in this video between Redline and others. Oils are not all the same.

If you are going to say "must" you need to use quantifiable research, not just your thoughtful feeling or opinion.

 

[ChitownV]

If you are going to say "must" you need to use quantifiable research, not just your thoughtful feeling or opinion.

Thanks for your input.

There’s is zero question that Germany has a stricter regulation about the use of the Synthetic label and it has to be a Group IV oil, PAO, a true Synthetic. This differs from the U.S. which allows the label of Synthetic with lower Group III oils. You can Google or start here and Wiki (Standards>Groups) and video here. PAO Synthetic oils (Ravenol T-IV) versus conventional oils (Mobil 3309) is self-explanatory with the superior performance of PAO, but tons of info via Google and YouTube. Appreciate you bringing this up.

BTW, you said earlier the “silver bottle” indicated semi-synthetic and I shared a pic of the actual T-IV fluid bottle and it is labeled Synthetic as well as Made in Germany.

 

[ggleavitt]

Ravenol T-IV is 1.7-2x the price of Mobil JWS3309 and Toyota T-IV. To really do a full exchange you need at least 10-12 quarts (transmission takes 8+, I do 16 on my first flush then 12 on subsequent). That's over $220 if you use the blauparts price (and if you can find it). it). Mobil or Toyota will run around $100 for the same quantity. One could easily do a full swapout with the less expensive fluid then add another 8 quarts of "fresh" at a later date for the same cost.

I'm curious, does Ravenol definitively and demonstratively resolve shift issues on a pre-06J TF-80SC transmission? Now that might be something for the older vehicle if it was true (again to a definitive and demonstratable degree). And is there really such a thing as an optimal one-shot transmission fluid for a 16-year-old vehicle with 100k plus mileage vehicle that's never been changed? I wonder what would be considered "optimal" under those circumstances.

After all these years of Ravenol being available, it remains an outlier in terms of use (think MaxLife gets into more vehicles). Sure we can pull the few "testimonials" around on Swedespeed (search "Ravenol T-IV" for the entire Swedespeed site and see what comes back), but the proof in my opinion is in the adoption numbers which in turn would drive more comment and feedback.

 

[ChitownV]

Ravenol T-IV is 1.7-2x the price of Mobil JWS3309 and Toyota T-IV. To really do a full exchange you need at least 10-12 quarts (transmission takes 8+, I do 16 on my first flush then 12 on subsequent). That's over $220 if you use the blauparts price (and if you can find it). it). Mobil or Toyota will run around $100 for the same quantity. One could easily do a full swapout with the less expensive fluid then add another 8 quarts of "fresh" at a later date for the same cost.

I'm curious, does Ravenol definitively and demonstratively resolve shift issues on a pre-06J TF-80SC transmission? Now that might be something for the older vehicle if it was true (again to a definitive and demonstratable degree). And is there really such a thing as an optimal one-shot transmission fluid for a 16-year-old vehicle with 100k plus mileage vehicle that's never been changed? I wonder what would be considered "optimal" under those circumstances.

After all these years of Ravenol being available, it remains an outlier in terms of use (think MaxLife gets into more vehicles). Sure we can pull the few "testimonials" around on Swedespeed (search "Ravenol T-IV" for the entire Swedespeed site and see what comes back), but the proof in my opinion is in the adoption numbers which in turn would drive more comment and feedback.

So, you debate theories and more theories without trying yourself, but real-world positive feedback is already there, and not just by me…even by those who like to argue against me. Real-world feedback is real, no debating that it exists.

❓@ggleavitt Why don’t you try it so you can give real-world results instead of debate theory?

👍 Also, I did try your theory of swapping out Mobil 3309 early (did 2 fluid exchanges) and Ravenol still performs better. Thanks for mentioning this because it’s important to repeat that I did try the early fluid interval and now know I will save money, and extend my transmission life, by using Ravenol. It shifts better now using Synthetic Ravenol than it did 80k+ miles ago with fresh Mobil 3309. That’s definitely worth it!!

The value for the only maintenance item for the TF-80SC using JWS-3309/T-IV is very high with better fluid being in the transmission. Shifts did improve for those of us who have left feedback for our 6-speed transmissions. Yes, it is noticeable how consistent the Synthetic Ravenol T-IV fluid is, degradation of the fluid is not felt like it is with other fluids. As we also see with engine oil Synthetics vs conventional, synthetics will protect better against wear and that is important in the aluminum valve bodies.

I’ve said how I could feel the shifts get worse in just 20k miles with Mobil 3309 convention fluid and in the ATF video linked earlier which had Semi-Synth Mobil (not conventional like Mobil 3309) the performance dropped the most out of all ATFs in the video. Yes, like anyone who has changed their fluid to newer fluid with better shifting, you can feel degradation of oil in the shifting quality.

BTW, Mobil 3309 conventional would be classified as a Group I oil and in the video the Mobil Dex6 oil is Semi-synth Group II, while Ravenol Synthetic PAO would be Group IV.

 

[ggleavitt]

Not sure I follow, where's the theoretical? Ravenol T-IV costs almost twice as much as what folks customarily use and it's probably dead last in terms of statistical usage by the same real world populations that you reference.

Folks, don't trust my word, see for yourself. Input "Ravenol T-IV" into the Search Community window at the top of the Swedespeed site screen, see what comes back. Search the entire Swedespeed site, don't limit yourself to this forum. Consider how many different other Volvo models are using the TF-80SC and then validate what forum returns a response. No theoretical postulating here, it's all in the search return results.

I posed a couple questions in my last post, they are suppositive responses at best but I wanted to put things in perspective. No theoretical posturing for me, I've always followed what everyone else has used in their vehicles since joining the forum in 2005, first with my AW5 then following up with the TF-80. Mobil 3309 works great for me over 3 vehicle and 18 years (disclaimer- did do a Toyota T-IV flush at one point in the '05, 3309 was not available at the time).

As relates to the counter argument of why not try Ravenol? Dunno, maybe someday if I receive a case of 12l for free I'll do a swap in one of my vehicles and provide my personal experience. I've seen nothing since Ravenol first came up in a post (believe @ChitownV was the initial author 10/18) that suggests that the cost matches the performance as a driver to encourage use, otherwise I would be a fan. But somebody send me a case and I'll give it a try.

In the meantime, folks should try the search.

 

[ChitownV]

Not sure I follow, where's the theoretical? Ravenol T-IV costs almost twice as much as what folks customarily use and it's probably dead last in terms of statistical usage by the same real world populations that you reference.

Folks, don't trust my word, see for yourself. Input "Ravenol T-IV" into the Search Community window at the top of the Swedespeed site screen, see what comes back. Search the entire Swedespeed site, don't limit yourself to this forum. Consider how many different other Volvo models are using the TF-80SC and then validate what forum returns a response. No theoretical postulating here, it's all in the search return results.

I posed a couple questions in my last post, they are suppositive responses at best but I wanted to put things in perspective. No theoretical posturing for me, I've always followed what everyone else has used in their vehicles since joining the forum in 2005, first with my AW5 then following up with the TF-80. Mobil 3309 works great for me over 3 vehicle and 18 years (disclaimer- did do a Toyota T-IV flush at one point in the '05, 3309 was not available at the time).

As relates to the counter argument of why not try Ravenol? Dunno, maybe someday if I receive a case of 12l for free I'll do a swap in one of my vehicles and provide my personal experience. I've seen nothing since Ravenol first came up in a post (believe @ChitownV was the initial author 10/18) that suggests that the cost matches the performance as a driver to encourage use, otherwise I would be a fan. But somebody send me a case and I'll give it a try.

In the meantime, folks should try the search.

Appreciate you bringing more attention to the Synthetic Ravenol T-IV since it is a great fluid that performs better than conventional Mobil 3309.

@ggleavitt please show me the data to support your theories since you are making claims on value. Do you follow the same logic with suspension or engine parts? What about angle gear and diff fluid? Thanks!

@ggleavitt Also, please show me data that Group I oils are better than Group IV oils. Thanks!

Real world results are real. You can argue against that all you want. People even use Idemitsu and Aisin less than Mobil, but that doesn’t mean they are worse oils. Rofl 🤣 I also have people private message me about the better performing Ravenol. What is obvious is that Synthetic Ravenol T-IV is a superior fluid compared to conventional Mobil 3309.

Hey, you also tried to debate against me and had doubts about polyurethane control arm bushings and now that more people are using them, you won’t find a bad review for the XC90.

Unfortunately, the forum search is not as good as it could be and doesn’t show all the results. That’s one of the main reason I start the guides because it can be difficult to find the info.

Here is good feedback and from a member that will argue against me at any moment so you know he is speaking truth (he expressed eating crow), post #51. This did not show up in the search.

The ULTIMATE Fluid Guide for the 6spd Aisin transmission...

Thought I would post this for the archives and searching as the "ultimate guide" since there has been a recent trend of people using the wrong fluid. I don't like to use the term "ultimate," but it just might garner more attention. Hopefully, this will be clear enough to prevent XC90 owners from...

www.swedespeed.com

 

[John C]

Synthetic Ravenol T-IV ... is a great fluid that performs better than conventional Mobil 3309.

I think his point is, where are the scientific test results to back up your claims? So far, all we have is anecdotal evidence from unverified sources. It is, as they say, not settled science. Now, if you had complete maintenance records from (for example) a fleet of 50 identical cars used in taxi service in Chicago, half of which used fluid A, and the other half fluid B, then you might have the basis for study.

 

[ChitownV]

I think his point is, where are the scientific test results to back up your claims? So far, all we have is anecdotal evidence from unverified sources. It is, as they say, not settled science. Now, if you had complete maintenance records from (for example) a fleet of 50 identical cars used in taxi service in Chicago, half of which used fluid A, and the other half fluid B, then you might have the basis for study.

Show me data for conventional Mobil 3309 in the TF-80SC. 🤣
Show me that Group I oils are better than Group IV, this is the oil standard.
Show me Mobil 3309 performance data compared to others.

There are people who even argued for years against synthetic motor oils and we can see long-term conventional oils will be a problem compared to using synthetic. Some people are simply resistant to change and/or some people just constantly want to argue against me. 🤔

But hey, thanks to you too for bringing more attention to this. I’ll repost the ATF fluid analysis video, which shows the higher quality transmission fluids are superior and German Ravenol Synthetic is known as one of those high quality oils.

 

[ggleavitt]

If the entirety of your response is to diminish the validity of my opinion by turning this into a counter argument, let's move on. I don't need to prove anything relating to 3309 compatible transmission fluids to anyone, time and population have already done it for me.

If the site-wide search on Swedespeed does not show all of the results (and perhaps limits the value of the response), folks should try the same search ("Ravenol T-IV") on www.matthewsvolvosite.com and www.volvoxc.com, see if they differ from the Swedespeed trend.

No need to suppose about transmission fluids, let statistical fact guide the discussion. Cool to promote Ravenol and I'm sure it's still a great fluid to use. Just not for me at nearly double the cost.

@ChitownV, as you've expressed your opinion about this, so have I. That's what is so nice about the Swedespeed forum, we can agree to disagree and not make something as simple as a fluid change on a 9-20 year old vehicle turn into something personal.

edit- fix MVS link.

 

[ChitownV]

If the entirety of your response is to diminish the validity of my opinion by turning this into a counter argument, let's move on. I don't need to prove anything relating to 3309 compatible transmission fluids to anyone, time and population have already done it for me.

If the site-wide search on Swedespeed does not show all of the results (and perhaps limits the value of the response), folks should try the same thing on matthewsvolvosite.com and www.volvoxc.com, see if they differ from the Swedespeed trend.

No need to suppose about transmission fluids, let statistical fact guide the discussion. Cool to promote Ravenol and I'm sure it's still a great fluid to use. Just not for me at nearly double the cost.

@ChitownV, as you've expressed your opinion about this, so have I. That's what is so nice about the Swedespeed forum, we can agree to disagree and not make something as simple as a fluid change on a 9-20 year old vehicle turn into something personal.

😆 Your entire opinion is to devalue or invalidate mine and others’ real-world feedback. Yes, I’m posting from actually and directly using Synthetic Ravenol in my own XC90 TF-80SC. No theories.

Why argue if those who are willing to try a German Group IV Synthetic Ravenol T-IV fluid in their TF-80SC want something better than conventional Mobil 3309? Why not let them validate or debunk my claims? They could always go back to Mobil 3309 if they choose. One thing is for certain, it won’t make the transmission worse off.

This is why I post publicly, so my claims can be challenged by those who can directly validate or invalidate my claims. Not afraid to let others post their direct findings. That is consistent with how I post, in addition I will also consistently post if there are issues with parts I choose. Even one of my harshest critics validated the better performance of Ravenol. 😉

You would think after all these years for those who are using Synthetic Ravenol, they would have posted an issue in their TF-80SC, but none.

🙂 Finding out if there are better quality parts and better fluids out there will only make the community stronger and keep our XC90s running healthier for longer on the road.

 

[ChitownV]

Here’s some more positive real-world feedback from other members on Synthetic Ravenol T-IV in the XC90 TF-80SC, including from a V8 owner. These also were not in search results. I ordered my Ravenol while on sale. Sign up for Blauparts’ email list to hear about their sales.

FYI, I posted earlier in this thread that the fluid is indeed Synthetic, not semi-synthetic. Posted a pic of the bottle too.

Ravenol T-IV Semi-synthetic sale

Since both RyanR and I both like this fluid very much, and it performs much better in my direct comparison to Mobil 3309, thought I'd share a sale to save on the semi-synthetic Ravenol T-IV. This is the JWS3309/T-IV transmission fluid replacement. Regular 3309/T-IV (including Mobil 3309) is...

www.swedespeed.com

Ravenol T-IV Semi-synthetic sale

Since both RyanR and I both like this fluid very much, and it performs much better in my direct comparison to Mobil 3309, thought I'd share a sale to save on the semi-synthetic Ravenol T-IV. This is the JWS3309/T-IV transmission fluid replacement. Regular 3309/T-IV (including Mobil 3309) is...

www.swedespeed.com

edit: fixed grammar from autocorrect

 

[ggleavitt]

That makes what then, 5 people? 10 people? Heck, let's make it 30 people just to be safe. That's 30 people out of thousands of Swedespeed forum members and hundreds of thousands of applicable vehicles (keep in mind that the Ravenol T-IV is also applicable for the 5-speed). The statistic don't lie, they're a data point that's unemotional and without opinion.

@ChitownV, I am respectful of the fact that you have such a strong opinion relating to the benefit of using Ravenol T-IV in your vehicle but I really don't understand why this should be something for someone else to "prove" as right or wrong if they have a counter opinion (as I do). In the end, it's a transmission fluid swap in a 9-20 year old high mileage vehicle.

 

[ChitownV]

That makes what then, 5 people? 10 people? Heck, let's make it 30 people just to be safe. That's 30 people out of thousands of Swedespeed forum members and hundreds of thousands of applicable vehicles (keep in mind that the Ravenol T-IV is also applicable for the 5-speed). The statistic don't lie, they're a data point that's unemotional and without opinion.

@ChitownV, I am respectful of the fact that you have such a strong opinion relating to the benefit of using Ravenol T-IV in your vehicle but I really don't understand why this should be something for someone else to "prove" as right or wrong if they have a counter opinion (as I do). In the end, it's a transmission fluid swap in a 9-20 year old high mileage vehicle.

Hahaha, still real real-world results are real and all are saying it performs better in their old transmissions with different miles. 😉 That’s just what was posted publicly as I get private messages about Ravenol too. Again, you are trying to devalue and invalidate other members’ real-world experiences.

As noted before about your theoretical “opinions,” with polyurethane bushings for the lower control arms, lower number installed doesn’t mean it’s worse. You debated against that part and there are no negative reviews, actually all are positive. More and more people are installing them as more reviews are shared. There is real value there too even though it takes a little more effort to install. No metrics are being measured besides the real-world experiences from members.

Wondering if you are scared if others try a better transmission fluid that I recommended and verify the performance, longevity, and consistency…🤔 Clearly the consistent improved results are something to explore further and shouldn’t be frowned upon for those who are willing to try something better.

As one V8 owner posted, his transmission just didn’t shift or feel right even with fresh conventional fluid. This was until he used Synthetic Ravenol T-IV and it shifted better than ever with smoother torque converter lockup. While these results cannot be measured, it’s real-world feedback that should be recognized.

Cheers!

 

[Monocog007]

Wondering if you are scared if others try a better transmission fluid that I recommended and verify the performance, longevity, and consistency…🤔 Clearly the consistent improved results are something to explore further and shouldn’t be frowned upon for those who are willing to try something better.

I don't think he's scared of people trying Ravenol.

I think he's describing that the approximately 2x increase in cost will not result in >2x performance. That in some use cases, replacing the fluid twice as often with something like Aisin or Toyota fluid would be just as good. If it meets the spec that Volvo says to use, then it must be good enough. That's the route I've personally taken: cheapest JWS3324 I can get, replaced at reasonable intervals.

As one V8 owner posted, his transmission just didn’t shift or feel right even with fresh conventional fluid. This was until he used Synthetic Ravenol T-IV and it shifted better than ever with smoother torque converter lockup. While these results cannot be measured, it’s real-world feedback that should be recognized.

That should come up in a search, but I wasn't able to find it. Would you happen to have a link?

But hey, thanks to you too for bringing more attention to this. I’ll repost the ATF fluid analysis video, which shows the higher quality transmission fluids are superior and German Ravenol Synthetic is known as one of those high quality oils.

I watched the video. It doesn't mention Ravenol anywhere, you should reach out and see if he'd add it to his next tests? He missed Amsoil too, which was the best from his oil testing videos, so it seems likely he'll do another.

My takeaway from watching was that while Redline was the best, it wasn't significantly so. It seems like it would be the best choice for a racing or near-towing-capacity application, but as soon as cost is a factor, the others seem just as applicable. Also note that these are Dexron spec fluids, so not exactly apples to apples.

 

[ChitownV]

Just an FYI, I have never shied away from recommending Mobil 3309 or the other conventional JWS-3309/T-IV fluids for someone if that fits their needs and budget. You can search about it as I recommend to always change old fluid. I also post publically so that others who directly use these fluids and parts can comment with their direct findings (whether good or bad), bringing good info for the community. Here is a thread with a TF-80 used oil analysis by @HLG600 showing why I recommend at least one transmission fluid change with Mobil 3309 or other conventional before jumping to Synthetic Ravenol T-IV; to remove as much of the media as possible. In that time, one can determine if they want to continue with conventional or jump to Synthetic Ravenol.

Value, depends on what you are valuing different factors. Do you value shearing down of the oil viscosity, driveline shock, torque converter lockup, etc.? I haven’t been provided performance metrics for Mobil 3309 either. The additional price overall for Ravenol isn’t that much compared to the cost of engine oils (synthetic vs conventional in the same interval), or good suspension parts, good engine parts, etc. The transmission fluid is in there for a very long time as the Synthetic Ravenol can be changed at a longer interval, something I checked at similar mileage (actually slightly higher) versus Mobil 3309. From my own assessment, more than double the 30k mile interval of Mobil 3309 and will keep this thread updated when I hit that mileage. I bought my Ravenol T-IV on sale so the price difference was even smaller.

That in some use cases, replacing the fluid twice as often with something like Aisin or Toyota fluid would be just as good. If it meets the spec that Volvo says to use, then it must be good enough. That's the route I've personally taken: cheapest JWS3324 I can get, replaced at reasonable intervals.

This is where the argument is weak because you are arguing “just as good” instead of performing better, smoother shifting, more consistent for longer, and less degradation over time with Synthetic Ravenol. From mile one to mile 30,000, Ravenol is definitely more consistent and has less shifting issues, like hard shifts, torque converter lockup shock, and less wrong gears selected. Also add quicker shifts, smoother in winter cold, consistent & smooth in hot summer traffic, to shifting better when pushed hard.

Starting with inferior fluid, as we also saw with the V8 example I just shared (and others’ reports of conventional JWS-3309/T-IV) shows from mile one different fluids do not behave the same. The improvement in behavior with Ravenol T-IV should definitely be factored in the value, something that those who do use Synthetic Ravenol T-IV know of the improvement. Changing inferior fluid twice as often does not make it equivalent. I also tried this, shared my story earlier with 2x Mobil 3309 and it is definitely not the same.

"Just fine" transmission performance doesn't happen or is not for everyone, like the case with the V8 I posted earlier where the shifting was off. Valuing real-world members’ input should be acknowledged. It’s along the same lines of using polyurethane bushings where there is a “feel” to it and it performs better. Many people debated their XC90 drives just “fine,” but then realized later with new lower control arm bushings how bad and dangerous their suspension became over the years.

I posted earlier how the video is for Dexron 6. The video shows Red Line vs other synthetics and Mobil semi-synthetic, which are put through just one short heat cycle, there is measurable difference in performance with Mobil semi-synthetic showing the most drop off in performance. Remember that Mobil 3309 is conventional while Mobil Dex6 in the video is semi-synthetic. It’s a great video to show how quality Synthetic transmissions fluids do better, it’s clear even with such a short test. The Red Line fluid in the video says it is also specced for WS (as a multi-spec fluid). It would be great to see Amsoil too .

BTW, the oil standard for different oils, from Group I to Group V is standardized and the performance advantages are well documented. Conventional Mobil 3309 is Group I, while German made Synthetic Ravenol T-IV is Group IV. We shouldn't push someone away from trying a better fluid if they want to, especially a Synthetic fluid that has shown consistent better results with XC90 owners.

If you try different WS fluids in your XC90, I would be very interested to read your thread and your real-world feedback.

Cheers!

 

[John C]

Show me data for conventional Mobil 3309 in the TF-80SC. 🤣
Show me that Group I oils are better than Group IV, this is the oil standard.
Show me Mobil 3309 performance data compared to others.

You seem to forget that you are the one making statements about how much better one is over the other, not I. All I'm asking is do you have any scientific data that supports your position? Or, does it in fact not matter in the real world? Data, not opinions, please.

 

[ChitownV]

You seem to forget that you are the one making statements about how much better one is over the other, not I. All I'm asking is do you have any scientific data that supports your position? Or, does it in fact not matter in the real world? Data, not opinions, please.

A reminder, the title of this thread is "Ravenol T-IV (JWS 3309) Full Synthetic ATF Review"

Rofl, real-world reviews from real XC90 owners who are directly using Synthetic Ravenol T-IV are all positive. Swedespeed member reviews on shift quality, smoothness, consistency, and torque converter lockup engagement are real data. The collective reviews are all positive and the same comments are the performance is improved versus conventional fluids like Mobil 3309 and Idemitsu.

There are both qualitative and quantitative measurements. The quantitative measurement is that 100% who have reviewed Ravenol's T-IV have given it positive feedback and said it performs better, improving transmission behavior. We shouldn't devalue or invalidate Sweedspeed members' feedback, whether it's about suspension parts or transmission fluid.

Also, let's not forget about Group I conventional mineral oils versus Group IV Synthetics as that's a standard full of data. That is self-explanatory that Synthetics are better than mineral oil.

Appreciate you asking so I can post more on Synthetic Ravenol T-IV and it will show up better in searches.

 

[John C]

Now who's ducking the question?

I believe you when you say it's all about the search engines, though.