Why have they been deleted?

A bunch of folks who own an XC90 have done drain and fills, including myself at ~50K miles. I did 3 x drain and fills, total of 12l. Pretty easy job, just have to go through the process. Fluid was not bad, had darkened a little. But the transmission appreciated it. Immediately noticed smoother shifting.

Fluid is JWS3324. You can use original Volvo, Aisin and probably even Toyota WS (world standard) ATF fluid. Aisin is essentially a Toyota company.

Good luck!

 

Thank you for sharing your experience. Did you use original volvo fluid?
People were complaining about the thread and it disappeared.
There was quite a lot of info there including very extensive data on fluids.
I remember this fluid which caught my attention.

ATF Type TLS-LV | Idemitsu Lubricants

Engineered for and meets requirements of Toyota/Lexus/Scion Automatic Transmission with WS specifications.

www.idemitsulubricants.com

Excelent specs and very decent price in walmart.

Many people use this site:

Volvo Automatic Transmission Fluid - Genuine Volvo 31256775

Volvo Automatic Transmission Fluid - Genuine Volvo 31256775

www.fcpeuro.com

Also very decent prices and also good videos. I think these guys recommend changing the fluid every 30k.

Experts here on the forum are recommending Ravenol atf ws and original volvo aw 1.

This site is about the 6-speed gearbox, but also very informative. I think he also has 30k recommendation for fluid change.

Aisin AW TF-81SC: A vigorous veteran - The AKPPro Magazine

Устройство, ремонт, типичные неисправности автоматической трансмиссии Aisin AW TF-81SC

akppro.ru

 

Yup, I recommended using Synthetic Ravenol (German) since the data shows it's of higher quality, Germany has stricter standards for oil labeling & manufacturing, and I currently run Synthetic Ravenol's T-IV fluid with great results. Actually, everyone who does run Ravenol synthetic fluids says it performs better in all aspects, though the subset of owners is smaller. I also had a very extensive chart of all the publically available data on the different WS fluid brands and it showed how Idemitsu was a good fluid. People complained because someone kept on asking how WS fluid would perform in the 8-Speed, but kept on posting this in the 1st Gen XC90 forum with the 6-Speed transmission.

Those from both the 1st and 2nd Gen XC90s have used different brands of WS fluids without issue. The most important thing to remember is to change the old fluid. Also, sometimes a fluid may start out thicker when new, but if the fluid is of a lower quality, then it gets thinner faster; oil shears down. Synthetic fluids are more consistent, offer both better cold flow & maintaining higher temp viscosity protection, and they last longer. Same principles of using a 5W-30 conventional vs a 0W-30 Full Synthetic engine oil.

Without overthinking, the most important action is to actually change the old fluid with one of the quality brand WS fluids (Toyota, Volvo, Aisin, Idemitsu, Mobil, Ravenol). If you are in doubt about other fluids, then stay with the Volvo fluid, even if that means you spend $100 extra. The fluid is in there for a long time and a lot of miles. Changing the fluid is the only maintenance that you can do to these transmissions.

 

My experience with this original fluid is that when it is really cold outside and in the first few minutes of driving I notice for example shift from 2nd and 3rd much rougher than after it is warmed up. It might be that this original fluid does not have the best cold flow.
I'm not sure if original fluid is sythetic. It's not written anywhere that it is synthetic.

I have one questions if there are people here that understand torque converters in detail.

P or N for automatic cars at traffic light? We explain for AMT, DCT, CVT &Torque converter

What should you choose on the gear selector while waiting at the traffic lights? Well, find the answers below.

www.cartoq.com

If you look at the part covering torque converter AT it says it causes damage to transmission if you don't shift do neutral when you stand still for a long time.
So my question is does neutral completely stop the torque converter spinning? If you have it in drive without any throttle you you can feel the engine pulling a bit, then auto break kicks in when you stop, but I think the engine is still pulling in drive because torque still converter spins. That might be a bit difficult for the transmission if you stop for a long time, probably gets hot?? But then again, I don't know the transmission in detail, which clutch engages and when, so this might be completely wrong thinking??

 

When the link you provided talks about the “Torque Converter” it also says “You have to really keep the brakes engaged for say about 20-25 minutes to heat the transmission fluid.” Holding brakes at stop lights, even extended ones, is not hurting the transmission as that’s the engineering & design job of the torque converter.

Since it appears you acquired your S60 used, anything could have happened to your car before your ownership, including if anyone drove into flooded water, or someone decided to pull vehicles out of ditches, or decided to race it….anything is possible. Remember that engines can affect shift quality too, like if the turbo boost stays up not allowing the rpm’s to drop, same if it lugs and drops rpm too much, or someone performance tunes the engine and the software tune is too aggressive for in-between gears & load.

With any used vehicle newly acquired where you don’t know the history, it’s always advisable to change all the fluids, including the transmission fluid. Anything could have happened.

I would first see if there are any transmission software updates for your engine/trans combo which addresses harsh shifting. Then I would replace the fluid with Volvo AW-1 to observe if the issue is the fluid, or hardware issue, or software issue. Adding another variable with a different brand fluid makes identifying the real problem more difficult.

If you simply want to go with the lower cost fluid with Toyota WS, then you have to do what you have to do.

Btw, Synthetic Ravenol has the best cold flow temp (that’s comparing all the main WS brands) and very high flash point, maintaining hot temp protection. Ravenol is PAO synthetic, meaning it is more consistent through the temp spreads, from below freezing to very hot driving through summer traffic.

 

I've owned the vehicle for 3 years 😀 and it's got only 45k km. I know all the history. Nothing wrong with the transmission but works better at working temp than 10 below zero after cold start.
They advise anything longer than 30 sec, you should put it in neutral

 

-Was your issue like this from the beginning?
-Did it get progressively worse?
-Have you mentioned this to, and asked, the dealership for transmission software updates?
-Have you seen this to be a widespread issue with other 8-speeds in any vehicle, including the heavier XC90? If so, have you taken action to reach out to those who have alleviated it?
-What action have you taken so far?

Just like an engine, the transmission needs to warm up. Always has been like that. Even manual transmission fluid will shift better when warmed up compared to cold.

You said more than once you will use the Toyota WS fluid since it’s cheaper. Waiting to hear your results after you do that.

Good luck 👍

 

They say everything works as it should. Do you think your car works the same cold in winter than on working temp in the summer? No car works better cold than until warmed up.
I'm just thinking about fluids. If you say ravenol is so much better than it could maybe help in winter...
Do you know what happens in the converter if is in neutral vs drive + brake?

 

I was a professionally trained automotive tech and I expanded beyond producer work into racing. 25+yrs experience working on cars. From Mercedes, BMW, Honda, Toyota, Infiniti, Ferrari, MG, Land Rovers, Fords, GM, Mopar, etc. etc., I’ve owned, built, or worked on them. 3-speed to 9-speed automatic transmissions. Carbureted, old complicated Jectronic fuel injection, to today’s direct injection. I have battle wounds where a vehicle severed one of my tendons requiring multiple surgeries. Plus I have two Master’s degrees.

Real-world results are always what matters, no matter what is on paper. Desktop racing, over analyzing paper info has been happening for decades. Nothing is learned or fixed unless action is taken and getting feedback from real-world use.
⭐ Trust but verify.

Good luck with your decision. I’ll wait for the results in the action you take with your transmission…

 

Yes I wonder how the fluid looks like after 45k km. I don't know why I waited so long...
You probably did not see, but many spa cars have other problems, not transmission related.
One of them is vibration at highway speeds. Not solved and if you have any ideas, there are many threads about this problem.

 

Maybe the transition between 2nd and third gear is less smooth also because for 2nd gear there is an old school band clutch applied. It is the only gear where the band is applied.

 

Non OE fluids:

 

While I wait with my popcorn 🍿 for you to take action, I’ll repeat, I see you are new at this.

About Volvo transmission fluid, including WS. Read rules 1-100

The ULTIMATE Fluid Guide for the 6spd Aisin transmission...

Thought I would post this for the archives and searching as the "ultimate guide" since there has been a recent trend of people using the wrong fluid. I don't like to use the term "ultimate," but it just might garner more attention. Hopefully, this will be clear enough to prevent XC90 owners from...

www.swedespeed.com

Taking action to try Ravenol Synthetic in the real-world, the first that shared results for this Volvo model

Ravenol T-IV (JWS 3309) Full Synthetic ATF Review

Ravenol T-IV (JWS 3309) Synthetic ATF Review Update 4-4-22: Ravenol T-IV is indeed Full Synthetic regardless of bottle color. A pic is provided later in this thread. Hello All, I bit the bullet as the guinea pig and wanted to give some feedback on the Ravenol full synthetic T-IV transmission...

www.swedespeed.com

Since you mentioned it, Volvo suspension: important details and extensive real-world testing, including flaws in both Volvo parts and “credible” branded parts. Great example how to approach.

ChitownV: my front end rebuild/upgrade using OEM &amp...

(Feb 2023) This thread started to show an honest journey of trying different branded parts to improve the XC90 suspension. It has been updated to reflect the feedback of SwedeSpeed members and you can read their experiences in the rest of this thread. Some Volvo "blue box" parts do not last...

www.swedespeed.com

Detailed guides for proper engine maintenance based on real-world feedback. Again, desktop racing vs seeing real-world results. Issues with Volvo recommended service vs the real-world.

The 3.2L (B6324S) Engine: The Good, the Bad, and the...

I figure we could get a 3.2L thread going. I'll kick it off, but hope others can add to it. I've only had my 2011 for a year now, but I've read as much as I could in VIDA and elsewhere. A great debt of thanks goes to Swedespeed forum members who have helped me out over the past year. If you've...

www.swedespeed.com

Bonus: how to properly look at oils, compare, and getting real-world feedback to make personal adjustments. If looking for an engine oil that doesn’t burn off as easily, what to look for. Or an oil that will turn in arctic cold weather, like many Canadians get.

Oil is sooooo confusing

South, another oil thread but hopefully it'll be kept simple. I decided that is time I really stay paying attention because oil is a lot more complicated than what I'm used to. So the owners manual for my 07 3.2 AWD doesn't say enough for me to make a decision due to changes in oil testing...

www.swedespeed.com

 

Thanks Ill take a look.
In the end I went for original oil. Very adventurous.

 

This video (same professor) is really great. Things that you find out for example. Torque converter is the main source of heat in a transmission. Heat is generated when pump and turbine are moving at different speeds. That is when one is speeding up for example but the most heat is created at full stop if you apply a break which means you stop the turbine, but the pump keeps spinning. If you apply the brakes and go full throtle and rev it up to stall speed, that generates the most heat. 10 degres per second!!! You can only do that for 10-15 seconds, because fluid heats up from 0 to 150
If you heat it up to 700 degrees farenheit the torque converer turns blue
When overtaking you can put the torque converter difference in speeds to 2000 rpm, just from passing someone.
Towing also means a lot of pressure on torque converter, a lot of difference between the turbine for a long period of time.
So picking up thinner fluids is not a bad idea after all.

 

After seeing both videos from prof. Kelly my thoughts of neutral position would be following. In neutral impeller is spinning, and so is the turbine. That means not a lot of friction going on. All the clutches are disengaged, which means transmission is not spinning. This may not be right...
But if that is the case, a lot less friction is happening in the transmission. Which means neutral at traffic lights is not such a bad idea.

 

Will a torque converter rattle in park?


Torque Converters…

Since the entire converter (pump, turbine and stator) turns while the transmission is in park and neutral, a converter noise will go away in those ranges.

This is all I found to confirm my theory

 

So after after 30k miles, my oil was changed. Only one cycle was necessary. I used the original fluid.
There was some coloration but not nearly as much as one can see on youtube videos.

Colour between 2nd and third drain for my first drain.

Did not have time to test if I can tell any difference in shifting, but job done. In 2 years I will repeat the procedure.