[EricV]

Hi gang. I hope you don't mind my bouncing this off of you- I'm a little shell shocked. It's an '05 S40 T5 w/ 75K on it, passed inspection at a very reputable Volvo indie shop in March, not lowered in any way- all stock. Last alignment was done about 5K ago and it's all out of whack again (which isn't unlikely, given the shape of the roads around here.) I took it this morning to a local shop that specializes in alignment, since the last shop was a tire place that doesn't necessarily specialize in this, and also given the fact that the last alignment didn't hold up.

Anyway, the shop called to say my 80.00 four wheel alignment would be 1,200. They said that the rear is at it's outer limits of adjustability and therefore it requires the camber kit. Also the front control arms need replacing. I've attached the estimate and specs on the alignment below.

Now I know that rear camber is an issue w/ these cars and if you want to 'fix it for life' then the camber kit is necessary (otherwise you'll always be wearing the inside edges.) Still, I have a hard time believing that a car w/ 75K on it cannot have the rear adjusted a bit more. There's no way I'll spend 1200 on this- no offense to anyone here (as I do understand the S40 love) but this car just isn't worth that much to me...I've never bonded with it, so to speak. I do have an appt. w/ the indie Volvo shop for Monday, so will keep you posted. In the meantime I thought I'd get your thoughts as a.) I trust this place and you guys have always been a great source of advice and b.) I wish to be armed with knowledge when I talk to both of these shops. Let me try to post some pics of the docs they gave me:

Thanks!!!

 

[iPd Cameron]

I'd politely decline their service myself...

What camber kit are they quoting you on? What brand control arms are they quoting you on? Do you have a shop you trust that allows you to provide your own parts?

For example, the bulk of that price is the camber kit and front control arms... The SPC rear adjustable control arms to fix your camber issue are widely available for half of what they're asking. Heck, we even have them on sale right now for $81.86/each so $163.72 for the pair instead of $331.84 they quoted you. For the control arms there's also lots of options out there. If you want OEM Volvo we have those too for $331.12/pair so still less than what they're quoting you. If you don't want OEM we have good aftermarket ones for $156.52/pair with sale pricing. Free shipping on everything too if you order over $149.00...

So there's $400 less in parts right there if you get the rear adjustable arms and aftermarket front control arms from us. Additionally, if you have any inkling of installing both DIY there's another $356.00 saved. Install of both of these is pretty straight forward for a intermediate DIY guy. Install yourself and then take to the alignment shop for the alignment. As much as we'd love you to order from us, of course there's also lots of other sources for these parts too at more reasonable prices than they're presenting you.

 

[mercdude]

I'm guessing that the alignment has been marginal since day 1 - now at your mileage, it's 'out of spec' (keep in mind that alignment readings differ between techs and shops). Their suggestions are not unreasonable, nor their estimates (if they use OEM parts) - they are known issues with these cars.

Solving the rear alignment issue permanently is not hard. You could either order the rear camber kit off amazon (50) and install it yourself; or get an even cheaper solution via chamber adjusting bolts (12) and install them yourself. Both are very DIY'able. The lower control arms can be had for around 150 via rock auto. Again, not hard to do yourself. Then take the car back for an alignment.

Just to warn you though, you'll probably need a tie rod or two, struts/mounts, and end links in the coming years. These cars, for some reason, are tough on suspension parts.

 

[Chilled Man]

Talk about markup on parts. Had a friend get quoted $330 for front break pads to be replaced..... just the pads....$25 at Advanced Auto and less then 30 min to replace.

I honestly would never go back to these guys again.

 

[msmith]

I'd say $1200 sounds good is they're throwing in a new set of tires and rims. I agree with iPd, decline their offer to do the work and find another place.

 

[choc101]

Yaaaaa, one of the reasons this forum exists is to prevent people from being taken advantage of in exact situations like this. There's too much knowledge at your disposal to even begin to justify paying this.

 

[AEndy]

It's certainly not the most reasonable quote I've seen, but at least they aren't selling you things you don't need. The shop does need to make money.

Do it yourself if you can as Cameron stated. Both are pretty easy, although the passenger rear is a pain, just because a small valve blocks one of the bolts. Get your small hands out.

Andy

 

[phish]

Save the money and do the camber arms and control arms yourself.

 

[EricV]

I can't thank you guys enough for taking the time to provide thoughtful responses, with quotes/sources of parts on top of that. Hugely helpful.

I'd say I'm an intermediate DIY'er, so perhaps doing the rear camber arms and control arms are a possibility. I'll look over the "how-to" sticky above and read up on it...see if it's something I'm up for.

I'm just amazed, as you can tell. Don't get me wrong though- I Fully Get that alignment is a regular maintenance issue, as are control arms, etc. What amazes me (granting that I must just be naive, seriously) is that there are cars, such as this one, where w/in 75K you're out of room to adjust and can't work with what's stock any longer....so you're forced to do something like a camber kit. Volvo's used to be built for the long haul, so I would have thought that one would go longer than 75K before hitting what amounts to a dead end that ends in that kind of cost. Don't get me wrong- I'm not bashing Volvo as the car has, overall, been good to me, and most modern cars have similar issues.

Thanks again, really. I'll read up on the procedures to determine if it's something I'm comfy doing, and I also have an appt w/ the indie Volvo shop on Monday to get a better read on all of this.

 

[Veefifty T5AWD]

As an FYI: rear camber was never adjustable from the factory - it is what it is when it rolls off the production line.

 

[mercdude]

I would have thought that one would go longer than 75K before hitting what amounts to a dead end that ends in that kind of cost

I know exactly what you mean. I've never seen a car's suspension be this shot at these miles. Not Fords, Acura's, Toyotas, Hondas, Subarus, etc. Of course, those cars don't have the style, good materials, thoughtful design, or elegant presentation that Volvo's do, either. Trade-offs *shrug*

 

[Adriano]

Your getting gouged on the camber kits. Personally, I have never seen a part fluctuate in cost so greatly as these. Perfect example: elevate sells them for $200 a pair. Yet they can be found on IPD for $70-80$ each, and on amazon for as little as $60 ea.

As far as the mechanics quote goes; I definitely think its over priced, however, It's not a surprising quote especially if your having it serviced at a popular outfit such as a dealer where you can expect high labour rates roughly $100/hour.

The good news is that you can definitely cut that bill down significantly by doing some digging around for discounted parts. Rockauto.com is an excellent resource and international shipping rates are relatively reasonable.

I just bought lower control arms myself, both left and right from Canadian tire which have moog's on sale right now for $95 ea. But if your not from canada rock auto has them for nearly the same price + shipping. Rock auto also had a few cheaper options from what I remember.

As far as the camber arms, here they are on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-45K018...arms+volvo+s40 for $60 ea. credits to Brown9348 for linking me to these a little while ago.

So right there you've already cut your bill from just over $700 in parts down to about $350 plus whatever shipping rates you encounter. Unfortunately, labour cost may be unavoidable depending on your skill set when it comes to mechanical. But if your willing to tinker with it and give it a shot, you could surely be all said and done for about $500 after your alignment. Otherwise, I'd say the labour rates you've been quoted are what they are, unless you can find a cheaper outfit like I mentioned earlier.

As for weather or not the car actually needs the parts I unfortunately can't really comment on due to my lack of mechanical knowledge But hopefully others will be able to provide you with this information.

Hope this helped you out a bit and inspires you to keep driving and loving the car

 

[EricV]

As an FYI: rear camber was never adjustable from the factory - it is what it is when it rolls off the production line.

Adriano, mercdude and Veefifty- thank you also for the advice/guidance.

Veefifty- what you say above piques my interest. IF I am understanding correctly it begs the question:

Does this make what the alignment shop said BS, as it pertains to the rear? They said the rear adjustment is at its outer reaches of adjustment (no more room to align further, hence the need for the kit.) Sure, I get that the rear of the S40 is by nature/design, negative camber but are you saying that if I don't do anything then it's no worse than stock/new. I also get that if you want to get it aligned better/proper- do better than stock and not wear the insides of your soles prematurely, then the camber kit is indeed it.

I'm not looking to low road it here, but if not doing the rear kit makes it no worse (and I only put 3-4K a yr on it anyway) then I may skip that. (Quick side note: 3-4K is no reflection on the car- it's a fun driver- but I work two blocks from home and spend a lot of time on my motorcycle.)

 

[tmtalpey]

Does this make what the alignment shop said BS, as it pertains to the rear? They said the rear adjustment is at its outer reaches of adjustment (no more room to align further, hence the need for the kit.)

Actually, no they are not BSing. There is an eccentric bolt in the lower rear control arm pivot that adjusts both toe and camber. It is very limited in range, and it adjusts them both together so it's even more limited in usefulness, but it's there and is called for in the book.

The fixed-camber comment comes from the rear *upper* control arm, it's a fixed u-shaped arm that is forever fixed. Volvo has a special version that's a little bit broader, it can be used to reduce camber in certain cars, but it, too, is fixed-size.

The SPC arm is adjustable and can be used to increase or decrease camber, while on the car in fact. Some folks have reported that the adjuster is weak and can flex or bend, and others have reported that the threads lock up with corrosion over time, but on my car I set them once and haven't thought about them since, and am perfectly happy with 'em.

With the SPC arms, you can dial in the rear toe and camber just the way you want them. Personally I went for minimum toe (to reduce tire wear and improve turn-in), and set the camber by eye to be as close to the fronts as possible. With the Elevate rear bar (the only really thick one), the car behaves just the way I want.

 

[JN2k108]

Actually, no they are not BSing. There is an eccentric bolt in the lower rear control arm pivot that adjusts both toe and camber. It is very limited in range, and it adjusts them both together so it's even more limited in usefulness, but it's there and is called for in the book.

The fixed-camber comment comes from the rear *upper* control arm, it's a fixed u-shaped arm that is forever fixed. Volvo has a special version that's a little bit broader, it can be used to reduce camber in certain cars, but it, too, is fixed-size.

The SPC arm is adjustable and can be used to increase or decrease camber, while on the car in fact. Some folks have reported that the adjuster is weak and can flex or bend, and others have reported that the threads lock up with corrosion over time, but on my car I set them once and haven't thought about them since, and am perfectly happy with 'em.

With the SPC arms, you can dial in the rear toe and camber just the way you want them. Personally I went for minimum toe (to reduce tire wear and improve turn-in), and set the camber by eye to be as close to the fronts as possible. With the Elevate rear bar (the only really thick one), the car behaves just the way I want.

you need to come out to devens again and sit in my c30. I'll show you how it should handle. lol

 

[tmtalpey]

you need to come out to devens again and sit in my c30. I'll show you how it should handle. lol

Name the day!

Don't forget, the V50 has a lot more junk in the trunk than the C30. I'll hold yours to a different standard.

 

[phish]

I'd go with the c30 sport arms if that'll fit your car. Part numbers are in the stickies. They have a stiffer rubber compound which equates to better handling. Plus, they're cheaper than the non-sport s40 arms.

 

[mercdude]

The SPC arm is adjustable and can be used to increase or decrease camber, while on the car in fact. Some folks have reported that the adjuster is weak and can flex or bend, and others have reported that the threads lock up with corrosion over time, but on my car I set them once and haven't thought about them since, and am perfectly happy with 'em.

Another option - adjustable rear camber bolts. They're eccentric bolts that replace the fixed bolt that secures the hub to the upper arm. They gave 1 degree of positive adjustment. check RockAuto.

 

[tmtalpey]

Another option - adjustable rear camber bolts.

Aren't those for the old S40?

 

[mercdude]

Nope, I have a set installed on my 06. Set and forget.
I think adjustable camber bolts are available for the fronts, as well.