I should mention start at $2400, maybe willing to go to $2500...does that sound fair?

 

You don't mention trim but you must be looking at a base model S70 if that's the price for Excellent Condition on KBB. A T5 would list at $3600 and GLT wasn't available in manual transmission. If I were you I would pull the CarFax of have the dealer do it - single owner is highly preferred. See if any service records are available. And if you're going to proceed with a purchase then make sure to have the car inspected by another independent Volvo shop or dealer before buying it. I'm assuming this is a used car lot and not a Volvo dealer listing the car?

How's the paint? The exterior has a huge impact on actual price. Additionally, unless they can tell you that the PCV has been done then at that mileage you should expect you're going to need to do it. As well as replacing the suspension components.

Either way, the price is WAY TOO HIGH. I wouldn't spend more than $1500 to 2000 on it depending on what work has been done in maintenance - but in that case I would be dealing with a sell by owner. There are many base models out there - this one might look great but it's highly dependent on how well it's been maintained.

Note, at this mileage these cars can lose oil, usually either due to the PCV needing to be changed but also due to leaking valve stem seals. Whatever you spend, expect you'll probably need to spend $1500 more to bring this car up to Stage 0 (close to manufacturer specs) if you can do some of the work yourself.

 

You don't mention trim but you must be looking at a base model S70 if that's the price for Excellent Condition on KBB. A T5 would list at $3600 and GLT wasn't available in manual transmission. If I were you I would pull the CarFax of have the dealer do it - single owner is highly preferred. See if any service records are available. And if you're going to proceed with a purchase then make sure to have the car inspected by another independent Volvo shop or dealer before buying it. I'm assuming this is a used car lot and not a Volvo dealer listing the car?

How's the paint? The exterior has a huge impact on actual price. Additionally, unless they can tell you that the PCV has been done then at that mileage you should expect you're going to need to do it. As well as replacing the suspension components.

Either way, the price is WAY TOO HIGH. I wouldn't spend more than $1500 to 2000 on it depending on what work has been done in maintenance - but in that case I would be dealing with a sell by owner. There are many base models out there - this one might look great but it's highly dependent on how well it's been maintained.

Note, at this mileage these cars can lose oil, usually either due to the PCV needing to be changed but also due to leaking valve stem seals. Whatever you spend, expect you'll probably need to spend $1500 more to bring this car up to Stage 0 (close to manufacturer specs) if you can do some of the work yourself.

Sorry, yes it's a Base model, but it has 850 GLT wheels on it...I don't know if that means anything. Paint was very good, no rust at all, not really even many chips. Not much rust underneath, except for the muffler, which is pretty unusual for a car in our area (lots of salt). Couple of parking lot dings, no dents, the front bumper had a scrape on the side, like it had scrapped something while backing out of a lot or something.

I ran a VIN check on it, I've been running them on cars we look at. It's 1 owner, but was also a leased vehicle for the first 30K of it's life. I'd say 2 owner at that point, but at least Lease they usually get dealer maintained. The suspension felt a bit soupy, but I'm used to either a V70 Boat (didn't feel worse than that) or my E46 M3 (much soupier than that)...

FWIW, I haven't found any for sale in the $1500 to $2000 range, so I'd love to know where you guys can find these deals. I'd love to get a car like this for under $2K, but they just don't seem to be around. I've been looking for about a month now, test driving anything that comes up within 2 hours that has a 5-speed and is a Volvo/VW/Audi/BMW/Saab (not getting a Saab, just too weird), and this one is in the best condition of any of them. Most others were priced lower, but none in the $1500 to $2000 range...

********

The Timing Belt replacement was written on the little sticker, and there wasn't one for 70K, so I'm fearful it didn't have it done until 140K. Our V70 calls for every 105K, so I'm sorry I was unaware of an awkward 70K interval.

Also, this dealer does offer a 4500 mi/3 month warranty on the car, I don't know what that entails, but I would assume that it would cover fixing the cat/O2 sensor which should come back within that time-frame. If it doesn't, I wouldn't be all that interested.

Perhaps it wasn't well maintained, it doesn't have any records, other than the timing belt. But how many cars do have service records for 161K miles, seriously? If you can find me a 95-99 Volvo with under 150K and a 5-speed and in as good of condition as this with complete service records, I'm extremely interested. There's no way you can know really for any car. As I said, it comes with a warranty, if it's consuming a large amount of oil, I should notice in the first 3 months/4500miles, and the dealer would fix it. The car was bought from a large dealer at auction by the smaller dealer that has it. It was a trade-in from the person that's had it since 30K miles. They seem to have taken good care of it, so I'm hoping it's just low on oil because it has been sitting for a couple of months and needs to be run a bit. All questions I hope to ask tonight.

Would you seriously dismiss the car or would you do some further investigation? As I said, the interior is in very good shape, aside from one piece of molding not completely latched in. Exterior has a couple of dings, a small scrape, nothing large whatsoever.

Additionally, obviously, as you've made it clear by yelling at me, you know more about Volvos than I do. That doesn't mean I don't know anything, and I definitely know more than the average person, even more than the average Volvo owner. I asked for simple answers and you gave them to me, but then had to qualify that statement with an assholeish anecdote that didn't really serve any purpose other than to remind me why I don't post here all that often. As a forum sponsor I'd think you'd want to make friends with Volvo owners, not make them feel dumb. That's just me though.

 

Had the timing belt replaced at 141K (seems a bit late, but I guess it didn't hurt anything).

EXACTLY CORRECT, EVERY 70K

It has a CEL, but the dealer says he believes it to be the O2 sensor and that he would have it fixed before being bought.

REMEMBER HE CAN CLEAR A 02 CODE AND IT MAY NOT COME BACK FOR A WHILE SO YOU NEED PROOF THAT IT WAS CHANGED
ALSO COULD BE A CAT CONVERTER, $1000!

It is also low on oil. It didn't register on the dip-stick after the car was on for 10 minutes.


PASS ON THE CAR. NOT WELL MAINTAINED AT ALL

It didn't seem sluggish or anything, but the oil worries me. I didn't notice any oil being burned, no blue smoke, a minute amount of steam looking air coming out of the oil-cap when I took it off.

NEEDS BREATHER BOX REPACEMENT- $500 MINIMUM

DOESN'T SOUND AS IF YOU DO (KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT VOLVOS) IF YOU'RE ASKING THESE QUESTIONS.
KBB IS THE HIGHEST BOOK ON THE PLANET AND IS A JOKE AT THIS POINT, FORGET THE BOOK, IT'S CONDITION CONDITION AND SERVICE RECORDS

********

 

I just sold a very clean silver w/charcoal '99 S70 AWD w/130K, for $2,800. Under 2K would seem more in the ballpark, as mentioned.

 

Intriguing...thanks for the post.

 

P.S. Nada lists it higher than KBB. Just an FYI, KBB isn't the "KBB IS THE HIGHEST BOOK ON THE PLANET AND IS A JOKE AT THIS POINT"

 

So by your estimates, is this worth $4500? Or more like $2800-$3000? It's not the car I'm looking at, but the interior on the one we are is marginally better than that one, and from the sound of it, similar body shape.

http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?154201-1999-S70-T5-manual-120k-miles-Raleigh-NC

 

I forgot to add, it made a bit of a rubbing sound when turning the wheel at low speeds or when stopped. Actually, our 2003 V70 began doing a similar thing as it gets warmer out.

 

In conclusion to this thread, I intend to check the oil, mess with the suspension, test the PCV, and will likely offer around $2K or less, depending on what I find.

We'll see if he takes it or not. My wife intends to give him the KBB and Edmunds printout and ask why he's priced so high. Kind of let him take the lead, if he says I'll do $2300, we go down from there. If he says I have it priced where I want, then we're not really going to get anywhere and we won't really have to bargain that much. As I said, we're completely willing to walk away and not willing to overpay at all. Plenty of cars out there and it's getting to be the summer, so I can drive the M to work or carpool with the wife if needs be. We just need a car before baby number 2 comes in early November. That is a lot of time to look.

 

Are you sure you're reading NADA correctly as I seriously doubt it would be higher than KBB which as I said, is a JOKE for almost every $$ figure they put out.
Great for people that are selling their car, bad for buyers.

However, I'm dismissing it for lack of oil
That's not cool at all and is an indication of probably how this one was maintained, (not well)!

Think about it.
If someone can't spend the 30 seconds or so a month to check their oil level, think about how much time they spent on and/or the money that was (not!) spent on maintenence? Probably not a heck of a lot, if any.
(Most people do remove the old T Belt sticker before the new one is put on, however it's even worse if they didn't on this car and it was the first T belt change, they were really playing with fire and rolling the dice)!

Back to the asking price.
For a dealer, it's not too bad IF it was a "creampuff" with records, this one does not sound like it
(KBB says $3100 retail)

 

Dewstain -

I would definitely go for the Nautic '99 S70 T5M. Its a much rarer car and as you're obviously a car enthusiast, (owning a M3, etc.) the T5M would be much more to your liking than the base S70 manual.

The base with a stick truly does shine when it comes to fuel economy. I've heard of some people getting close to 35 MPG in those.

Like Jim said, low oil and you can't see where it's going = PASS on the car. (hint, check the rear main seal)

I'd splurge and spend the extra money on the T5M (with a lot fewer miles too!)

 

I agree on the T5M - much nicer car. T5's hold their value better - my son just sold his (clean) 98 V70 T5M for $2,800 with 220K miles!

 

I already have an enthusiast car in my M3, gas mileage will be what I'm looking for. We didn't go for the one listed, it's just too highly priced. If the guy had records of something other than the timing belt and it had the oil topped off, I wouldn't be so worried. It does have oil in it, it's not completely out, you can see it in the engine, and it looks pretty good, but still, the guy wouldn't budge on the price one bit, and we weren't willing to take it for anything more than $2K.

We can wait, we're not in need of a car, we have 2 right now, and it's getting warmer, so the M isn't so bad. Plus we work at the same place, so we can use one to get to work most days.

Thanks for the advice, and sorry I got a bit nippy.

I'd really love to find an 850 GLT wagon with a 5-speed, that's what I'd like to get. An 850 sedan would be fine in a 5-speed too...but I'd rather closer to 100K miles. I should be able to find one of those for under $2500, right?

 

100K and decent, probably not anymore

 

Well, I said closer to 100K. There was one listed in Baltimore on Craigslist a couple weeks ago, 131K miles, new timing belt, etc...Guy had it listed for $2300. I was really sick with a cold, so I couldn't go down for two weekends, and it got sold. I'm sure they're around though. I don't need immaculate, just decent, like no tears, minimal dings. This is going to be my beater car, so I'm not looking for perfect. I want it to be reliable and safe and I'm not afraid to do preventative maintenance.

 

Finding a turbo manual for a super-low price won't be easy. Not a whole lot of factory manuals exist to begin with, and the ones that are for sale generally don't go cheap. Mine was listed for $3300 IIRC, which from what I've heard is pretty low for a T5m, even with 190K on it.

You *can* find them for a good price, but you may have to take quite a hike to get it. If you were willing to do a summer project, you could always get an auto and manual-swap it.

 

Finding a turbo manual for a super-low price won't be easy. Not a whole lot of factory manuals exist to begin with, and the ones that are for sale generally don't go cheap.

He's not looking for a turbo, he's looking for a base model specifically for the better gas mileage. No one knows how many manual transmission base models were built because no enthusiast has cared to ask the question - but it's probably safe to assume the numbers work about equally as T5s. And the price is lower on a base model manual transmission so that's another bonus. No one but crazy people do the manual swaps.

And Dewstain, they're out there especially some low mileage 850s - where are you located? Happy to toss some good leads your way if I know where to look.

 

It's not going to happen.
(this):
I want something I can pretty much expect to run with reasonable maintenance for at least 4 to 5 years, and honestly, I love the sound of an NA I5 from the 850."

ANY Volvo, ALL Volvos require a fair bit of maintenance over 75-100K miles so it depends on what you consider reasonable?

Most owners here and on all the sites figure at least $1000 a year, do you want to spend $1000 a year on a $2000 car??????

Even if the car was kept up by someone like me, MAJOR issues can and do crop up.
Suspension needs to be replaced every 100K or so
Breather boxes every 100K or so
Etc
Etc
Buy something Japanese if you want to just drive it and change the oil.
You also need to post in the WANTED section in the classifieds.

Again, let me give you an example;
about 3-4 years ago, I bought and sold a VERY nice 1995 850 GLT 5 speed manual.
Loaded up Volvo (leather, wheels, moonroof, etc) but a 5 speed manual, quite rare actually and it was generally a very nice car.
It had about 130K or so miles (I forget)
I sold it for $5500 in less than a week and if that exact same car was offered today, I could still get $4995 for it and easily

 

I'm sorry, I find you to be quite hard to understand. On one hand, you tell me cars I post are too expensive, then you tell me that what I'm looking for I won't find for the same price that the original car you told me was overpriced was being sold for. Make up your friggin' mind dude. And just so we're clear, my uncle has a '98 850 GLT wagon, a 99 XC, a 2000 XC, a 2004 XC and doesn't put $1000 into each a year, even with putting 20K miles on them for his business.

You seem to know a lot about Volvos, but you seem to be very eager to denounce anything. If someone's interested, it's too expensive, but then if they look cheaper, all of a sudden they won't find it for that. I'm going to be putting probably a MAXIMUM of 6K to 8K miles on this a year, barely 40K in 5 years, and everything you just mentioned is every 100K miles, so that would be 5 to 6 years, or right in the time frame I originally gave. I'm not afraid to do most maintenance, although I don't have the tools for most suspension work. I'm mechanically inclined and can figure pretty much anything out.

As I mentioned, I want something safe, not a Japanese econobox with half as much steel between me and the car hitting me. I just sold a 200K mile '98 Mazda Protege and we're looking to replace it with something safer.

And this isn't a WANTED post, it was originally a question post. However, others have offered their service, which I would be happy to take them up on. All you've done is nay-say to any and everything you can.

You know a lot about Volvos, great, awesome, thanks...you've made your point. Now leave my thread unless you have something to say that will help me.

 

It was too much FOR THAT CAR.
The one I sold was absolutely perfect, serviced regularly at the dealer all its life, and with dealer service stamps all the way to 130K, not missing a single services

 

Doesn't change the fact that you come off as pompous and hypocritical.

I'm sure the 850 was very nice, but I assure you I wouldn't buy it from you for $5K.

 

P.S. My reasonable maintenance statement was qualified with the fact that I have an E46 M3, with completely unreasonable maintenance. What you mentioned is absolutely reasonable when compared with the M3's Inspection I and II, done every 15 to 30K:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=190111

And that's just maintenance, not even things that can go wrong, which is what you mentioned.

 

P.S. My reasonable statement was qualified with the fact that I have an E46 M3, with completely unreasonable maintenance. What you mentioned is absolutely reasonable when compared with the M3's Inspection I and II, done every 15 to 30K:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=190111

And that's just maintenance, not even things that can go wrong, which is what you mentioned.

I'm with you on this. Even the non-M E46's are a nightmare. The maintenance required on my Mom's E46 325XI with 60K miles is off the scales when compared to my S70 with 193K miles.

Compared to the average driver, yes

haha, I'll give you that. We do tend to be a bit nutty.

Also with everyone who said they wouldn't buy a $5K 850. I'd just get one that needed some work for $3K and fix it up.

 

Hey look, JRL can come off as a little prickly here and there but most of his advice is good and can be trusted when it comes to prices and values when it comes to stock cars; modified ones are anybody's guess as it all depends on finding the right buyer. But that's neither here nor there.

You should put up an ad in the "Wanted" section so that people who are selling that check there frequently can get in touch with you. Sometimes things in there pan out and you'll get a decently maintained car from one of us. Win-win.
Keep us updated here when you find cars you may like. Additional knowledge gives you bargaining.

And my buddy just got an '05 M3 coupe with 26,000 miles on it. It was a S. Carolina car and is clean as can be without a single leak, creak, or clunk. The previous owner even installed a clear bra when it was new to protect against debris. Perfect as it is now, I imagine he's in for some serious maintenance costs.

 

Hey look, JRL can come off as a little prickly here and there but most of his advice is good and can be trusted when it comes to prices and values when it comes to stock cars; modified ones are anybody's guess as it all depends on finding the right buyer. But that's neither here nor there.

You should put up an ad in the "Wanted" section so that people who are selling that check there frequently can get in touch with you. Sometimes things in there pan out and you'll get a decently maintained car from one of us. Win-win.
Keep us updated here when you find cars you may like. Additional knowledge gives you bargaining.

And my buddy just got an '05 M3 coupe with 26,000 miles on it. It was a S. Carolina car and is clean as can be without a single leak, creak, or clunk. The previous owner even installed a clear bra when it was new to protect against debris. Perfect as it is now, I imagine he's in for some serious maintenance costs.

Yeah, I got the M3 as a hobby car as well. Tired of computers being my job and hobby. I wanted to be able to do the maintenance myself.

I posted in the wanted section on Matthews already, but I'll put one up here.

 

Ha, I'm not even 30 minutes, I actually live in Boiling Springs, about 3 miles South of Carlisle.

 

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/cto/2323698902.html

What do you guys think of that?

Miles are on the higher side, but the original owner...

 

I know it's not really your area of expertise, but I've heard the 2001s are terrible...

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/2324048532.html

But most of what I read was about the auto tranny, are the manuals better? Is that a decent price/worth looking at?

 

The manuals do remove the biggest failure point of the 2001s but some here will say it's too risky.

I love mine, but it is definitely more expensive to maintain than the older models. All the parts seem to cost more.

 

So the guy with the '98 V70 emailed me back, he says:

"Timing belt was replaced about 50,000 miles ago, so it is not due. I can check my receipts to be exact if you're interested. In addition to the clutch, there are other repairs needed, e.g., a leaking tailpipe that makes a lot of noise and a small crack in the windshield. It was fused so it wouldn't spread (cheaper than replacing) and I've lived with it for years. I wouldn't characterize the car as a handyman special, but it needs work if you can't live with the little nuisances."

Obviously the windshield is no issue. He seems to be saying that the clutch doesn't have an issue, but will probably need replaced soon...so no worries there at least for now (and we can get it replaced at $1500)...

I'm not sure what he means by "leaky" tailpipe...If it's just a muffler replacement, those are what, a couple hundred bucks? Not a biggie at all...but worth mentioning...I would like to know if it's the muffler or the actual exhaust. That's what I'm going to ask when I call. Also for CELs, etc...

 

I have someone down there who can look at it for you for $75 plus gas if it's far from DC
I think this may be the one for you.
If it checks out pretty well besides the clutch, give him $200 less, install a clutch and drive it!

If you drop it off with me for a couple of weeks, I can do a clutch for $650 plus parts (total of about $1000) and anything else it may need will cost you less.
I also have an inexpensive exhaust shop.
New glass, $210

 

We're not too far from DC anyway, if he can meet me halfway, it would only be about 2 hours of driving. It sounds like the clutch isn't even slipping yet; I asked him, but no reply yet. I've heard these go 200K without much issue, as I've mentioned, that could be 2 years for us before it needs it. Timing belt will likely need done in a couple years as well.

How much do you charge for a T-Belt, btw. Our V70 needs it. I have a guy in the Bloomsburg area who services my uncle's Volvos that says he can do it for $400-500, maybe $600-800 if the water-pump needs replaced.

So you think $1200-$1300 is a decent price for it? I'm wondering if he's aware that a clutch in one of these is a grand.

 

Good prices for sure.

I am going to call the guy in a couple minutes, once I finish up with HP support (ugh).