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Material preference for Inner Metal Sleeve (no difference in cost)

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(Delrin) Rear Subframe Bushings

3837 Views 47 Replies 17 Participants Last post by  ZombieSatty
2
6/14/2022 - Group Buy is live!

Like a few others here, I've been wanting to get a set of delrin subframe bushings for the rear. @Generation Volvo made some at one point. I reached out to him but never got a response so I'll be making my own.

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I finally got around to mocking them up in Fusion 360.


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The Plan:
1.) Obtain critical dimensions.
Waiting on a set of Volvo rear subframe bolts (987444) to measure. @The Driver offered to measure a rear subframe for me as well. Once I have what I need I can plug these into my model.
2.) (Maybe) 3D Print First Prototype. Print an undersized prototype for double checking fitment.
3.) Create Functional Prototype. Have one set of two bushing halves and a sleeve turned. Hopefully I can have this done locally so that I can sneak up on the bushing OD if necessary. Test fit on my car or maybe a volunteer who has a rear subframe handy.
4.) Order a full set. If other people want to get in on ordering together, we can get a larger discount.

Anyone have thoughts on the bushing OD to subframe hole ID fitment? Slight press fit so bushing can be drawn in with the bolt? Kind of like how the powerflex black race bushings fit?

Going to look for an off the shelf option for that inner sleeve.
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Bro talk about blazing trails, taking orders next month ??? 馃槀
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Very nice, beers for you sir!

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Managed to remove that metal washer/cup from the rear bushings using a 3 jaw puller. It actually helps in removing the old bushing to first remove this even though it is sort of a pain to remove. It's simply pressed into the inner metal sleeve. This metal washer/cup will be reused with the delrin bushings, I made sure that the inner metal sleeve will receive it.

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I made some final changes to my design to simplify things. The subframe will technically be 0.65mm lower than stock but I really don't think this will matter at all. I measured the height of the subframe at all four corners with the stock bushings (as best as I could) and the spread between min and max distances was like 1.50mm haha.


I just sent the .step files to Sunpe (as recommended by broinkrist) for quotes. I'm getting a quote for a single set and then 10 sets.
1 set will comprise of:
  • 8 identical Bushing Halves - Delrin (probably 150 or whatever common variety, I do not want "no-name" acetal.)
  • 2 Front Sleeves - 304 Stainless Steel
  • 2 Rear Sleeves - 304 Stainless Steel

Hoping to get these on the car ASAP for a test drive!
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Managed to remove that metal washer/cup from the rear bushings using a 3 jaw puller. It actually helps in removing the old bushing to first remove this even though it is sort of a pain to remove. It's simply pressed into the inner metal sleeve. This metal washer/cup will be reused with the delrin bushings, I made sure that the inner metal sleeve will receive it.

View attachment 155765

View attachment 155766

View attachment 155767

I made some final changes to my design to simplify things. The subframe will technically be 0.65mm lower than stock but I really don't think this will matter at all. I measured the height of the subframe at all four corners with the stock bushings (as best as I could) and the spread between min and max distances was like 1.50mm haha.


I just sent the .step files to Sunpe (as recommended by broinkrist) for quotes. I'm getting a quote for a single set and then 10 sets.
1 set will comprise of:
  • 8 identical Bushing Halves - Delrin (probably 150 or whatever common variety, I do not want "no-name" acetal.)
  • 2 Front Sleeves - 304 Stainless Steel
  • 2 Rear Sleeves - 304 Stainless Steel

Hoping to get these on the car ASAP for a test drive!
Queue jaws music, I'm waiting for this x100.

Sent from my ECU
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Just got the quotes back from Sunpe and am placing the order for the one set for myself.

I wanted to try to hit the $200 per set pricepoint but after receiving the quote for the 10 sets, I think we would be looking at ~$300 per set. If there were more people buying then that would go down further I'm sure.

Curious what you guys think about that price?
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Front delrin bushings are about $275 so I'm thinking that's the same ballpark. If it improves the rear end like the fronts do, I'm still all in.

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Let's just remember to keep things civil. Already had to do some cleaning up here.
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Havent been under the R in a while (knock on wood) but does the rear subframe need to be dropped to install the bushings in the way that it needs to be for the fronts?
Havent been under the R in a while (knock on wood) but does the rear subframe need to be dropped to install the bushings in the way that it needs to be for the fronts?

No you will definitely be able to do this without removing the subframe. Removing the old bushings isn鈥檛 fun but can be done one the car.

You may need to slightly loosen some of the subframe bushing bolts to slightly lower the subframe enough to fit the top half of the delrin bushing into the subframe hole. The old subframe bushing bolt can be used to draw the bushings into the subframe.


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Just got the quotes back from Sunpe and am placing the order for the one set for myself.

I wanted to try to hit the $200 per set pricepoint but after receiving the quote for the 10 sets, I think we would be looking at ~$300 per set. If there were more people buying then that would go down further I'm sure.

Curious what you guys think about that price?
I鈥檓 in
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1st set for myself was ordered a few days ago and. Should arrive in time to install next weekend.


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Those look easy enough to remove, I would agree.
Great work, I appreciate all your contributions!
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Just received the parts from the machine shop in China. I just finished verifying the measurements against my specs and everything looks really good. I'm very happy with them. Thanks again to @broinkrist for recommending the company to me.

Delrin parts were for the most part +/- 0.05mm and stainless steel parts were basically +/-0.01mm!

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I have a 3 day weekend starting tomorrow and am going to try to test fit them and hopefully get the car back on the ground for a test drive.
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Just received the parts from the machine shop in China. I just finished verifying the measurements against my specs and everything looks really good. I'm very happy with them. Thanks again to @broinkrist for recommending the company to me.

Delrin parts were for the most part +/- 0.05mm and stainless steel parts were basically +/-0.01mm!

View attachment 156840


I have a 3 day weekend starting tomorrow and am going to try to test fit them and hopefully get the car back on the ground for a test drive.
Woo hoo, I hope that everything goes smooth on the install. Good luck to you sir!

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The bushings are installed in the car! Looking to organize some sort of group buy. I'll keep you guys posted.

I got the bushing in and everything buttoned up last night and drove the car for the first time in months. It put a big smile on my face. Truthfully, it's not an ideal before/after comparison for a number of reasons, mainly it's first time driving it with proper Michelin PS4S (instead of flabby winter tires) after installing my rear spring seat adapters, linear rear springs, and having the car corner balanced and aligned. However, the car steers so tightly and precisely. Subjectively, it feels like the rear end no longer has a certain vagueness that it used to have. However, the last time I drove it with the Michelins, it was with the KW springs in the rear and the car wasn't corner balanced nor did it have camber bushings in the rear so the rear camber was out of control. Right now, I can toss it into a corner and it just GRIPS and does exactly what I tell it to, it's the best. It also seems like it takes much less effort to keep the car centered in my lane at highway speeds.

Only negative is that I can hear more road noise from the rear now which is to be expected. Pre-install, I thought my driver rear wheel bearing was starting to whirr under load and now I can very clearly hear it whirr when I turn right and hear it go quiet when I turn left. The increase in NVH is pretty small and similar to the NVH increase when doing the delrin front subframe bushings.

Overall the results are pretty much what you'd expect, similar to doing the fronts if you've done them. I definitely think it was worth the trouble designing and having them made. If I had the option to simply buy these (for cheaper than I paid for my one set, might I add,) I would jump on it. That's my $0.02.

I'm going to get a few quotes from the machine shop for different quantities of sets so you guys can see the price break with more or less people buying in.

I'm going to go with 4130 steel for the sleeves instead of 304 stainless. If a lot of people want stainless, we can do that, it's just probably going to be more expensive. Speak now or forever hold your peace.


Some notes on installation:

- Removing the front two bushings is very easy with a 2-1/8" hole saw. The rear two are difficult because the metal washer is sort of pressed into the sleeve. On the driver's side, I was able to use a puller to remove it. The passenger side was severely seized together. I had to basically rip the bushing apart using the puller. Once I got it all apart I cut the sleeve off of the washer on the bench since my design reuses the washers.

- Once all the bushings are installed, the rear subframe needs to be aligned. Unlike the front subframe, there are no alignment pegs on the frame. Something I noticed is that the mounting holes on the frame of the car are not perfectly on center with the subframe bushing sleeves. This could be due to manufacturing tolerances or a frame being slightly bent. I decided to 3D printed a couple of alignment sleeves that go inside the bushing's metal sleeve which basically reduce the ID down to a little larger than the subframe bolt OD. I inserted the sleeves in the front two corners of the subframe, shifted the subframe to line up the holes, and lightly tightened the front two bolts. I checked the alignment at the two rear bushings by looking up through the sleeve to see if the mounting hole was centered in the sleeve. They were a little off but I was able to shift the subframe slightly to split the difference between the two and get the subframe centered as best as I could. I had thought about tightening up the ID of the metal sleeves on my design but I now am glad that I stuck the the OE Volvo bushing sleeve ID.
After all of this, I needed to torque the bolts to spec and looked at the VIDA procedure for replacing the rear subframe and they mention using a couple of sleeves to align the subframe as well! They don't list a part number or tool number for them though which is weird. Funny that I had the same idea as them though haha. VIDA says to insert the sleeves into the rear two bushings, not the front like I did. They also say to remove the sleeves after torqueing down the front bushings. I actually ended up leaving the sleeves in the front as they're just CF-PA6 and are softer than the delrin/stainless sleeve/aluminum subframe.
See less See more
The bushings are installed in the car! Looking to organize some sort of group buy. I'll keep you guys posted.

I got the bushing in and everything buttoned up last night and drove the car for the first time in months. It put a big smile on my face. Truthfully, it's not an ideal before/after comparison for a number of reasons, mainly it's first time driving it with proper Michelin PS4S (instead of flabby winter tires) after installing my rear spring seat adapters, linear rear springs, and having the car corner balanced and aligned. However, the car steers so tightly and precisely. Subjectively, it feels like the rear end no longer has a certain vagueness that it used to have. However, the last time I drove it with the Michelins, it was with the KW springs in the rear and the car wasn't corner balanced nor did it have camber bushings in the rear so the rear camber was out of control. Right now, I can toss it into a corner and it just GRIPS and does exactly what I tell it to, it's the best. It also seems like it takes much less effort to keep the car centered in my lane at highway speeds.

Only negative is that I can hear more road noise from the rear now which is to be expected. Pre-install, I thought my driver rear wheel bearing was starting to whirr under load and now I can very clearly hear it whirr when I turn right and hear it go quiet when I turn left. The increase in NVH is pretty small and similar to the NVH increase when doing the delrin front subframe bushings.

Overall the results are pretty much what you'd expect, similar to doing the fronts if you've done them. I definitely think it was worth the trouble designing and having them made. If I had the option to simply buy these (for cheaper than I paid for my one set, might I add,) I would jump on it. That's my $0.02.

I'm going to get a few quotes from the machine shop for different quantities of sets so you guys can see the price break with more or less people buying in.

I'm going to go with 4130 steel for the sleeves instead of 304 stainless. If a lot of people want stainless, we can do that, it's just probably going to be more expensive. Speak now or forever hold your peace.


Some notes on installation:

- Removing the front two bushings is very easy with a 2-1/8" hole saw. The rear two are difficult because the metal washer is sort of pressed into the sleeve. On the driver's side, I was able to use a puller to remove it. The passenger side was severely seized together. I had to basically rip the bushing apart using the puller. Once I got it all apart I cut the sleeve off of the washer on the bench since my design reuses the washers.

- Once all the bushings are installed, the rear subframe needs to be aligned. Unlike the front subframe, there are no alignment pegs on the frame. Something I noticed is that the mounting holes on the frame of the car are not perfectly on center with the subframe bushing sleeves. This could be due to manufacturing tolerances or a frame being slightly bent. I decided to 3D printed a couple of alignment sleeves that go inside the bushing's metal sleeve which basically reduce the ID down to a little larger than the subframe bolt OD. I inserted the sleeves in the front two corners of the subframe, shifted the subframe to line up the holes, and lightly tightened the front two bolts. I checked the alignment at the two rear bushings by looking up through the sleeve to see if the mounting hole was centered in the sleeve. They were a little off but I was able to shift the subframe slightly to split the difference between the two and get the subframe centered as best as I could. I had thought about tightening up the ID of the metal sleeves on my design but I now am glad that I stuck the the OE Volvo bushing sleeve ID.
After all of this, I needed to torque the bolts to spec and looked at the VIDA procedure for replacing the rear subframe and they mention using a couple of sleeves to align the subframe as well! They don't list a part number or tool number for them though which is weird. Funny that I had the same idea as them though haha. VIDA says to insert the sleeves into the rear two bushings, not the front like I did. They also say to remove the sleeves after torqueing down the front bushings. I actually ended up leaving the sleeves in the front as they're just CF-PA6 and are softer than the delrin/stainless sleeve/aluminum subframe.
I'm glad that it all worked out. I'm standing by...

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Subframe bushings are a breeze with a hole saw and a power hammer/chisel. Great work man.
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Subframe bushings are a breeze with a hole saw and a power hammer/chisel. Great work man.
I keep meaning to buy a pneumatic hammer and keep forgetting! Would've helped haha.
Oh, just received new quotes for 10, 15, and 20 sets. There is no cost advantage to using 4130 Steel vs 304 Stainless like my prototype. Anyone have a preference?
Oh, just received new quotes for 10, 15, and 20 sets. There is no cost advantage to using 4130 Steel vs 304 Stainless like my prototype. Anyone have a preference?
For the purposes at hand, when there is no cost disadvantage, (or structural, galvanic, weight, etc.) then SS is the default choice... IMO
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