Best XC90 choice for winter driving

Kamil · Oct 8, 2023

Hey all XC90 Experts/ enthusiasts !

I spend most of the time in the V60 SPA forums but could really use some help.

I’m looking a XC90 for winter driving (100-200 miles per day on occasion). Could you help me with what engine would provide most reliability and service ability with locking me out on power and future modifications potential.

also any specific years or options that are good to try and get ?

all feedback welcome, thanks in advance

thaneus · Oct 8, 2023

I’m far from the authority but from my research, including from many others on this forum, the 3.2 inline 6 seems to be the most reliable.

I owned a 2014 3.2 I6 AWD for three years and ~30k miles and it was exceptionally reliable. The AWD system provided great traction in wet and snowy conditions.

That said, I’m not aware of any significant power modifications for that engine. I might recommend going the V8 route, which is what I did recently… just bought a 2009 V8 R-Design and the extra power/displacement has been great, especially at highway speeds.

The I6 was responsive off the line but ran out of breath a little bit during passing maneuvers at speed. The V8 is better in power and not far off in efficiency, plus late models have proven fairly reliable. Time will tell for us haha, but can’t go wrong with either in my opinion, both are the best family cars we’ve owned.

Kamil · Oct 8, 2023

Thank you for feedback. Trying to learn as much as I can on that generation of Xc’s

ChitownV · Oct 9, 2023

Hi Kamil,

Any of the AWD XC90s will perform well in the winter. I also own BMWs and X-Drive is better in the snow compared to the active on-demand AWD. However, the Volvo weight and typical XC90 tire choices help.

If you are looking for power upgrades, then you can't go wrong in the 2.5t. It will feel lighter, thus with suspension upgrades, the weight will help handling. The 2.5t is one of the most trusted, tuned, and documented Volvo engines. With the turbo, you can get a simple tune or upgrade the turbo from different Volvo engines. Getting 330+ ft lbs of torque is very realistic. Look for a late one, 2006, which will have many of the early issues sorted, the newer Gen3 Haldex, and perhaps more options

The single biggest issue that plagues all XC90s is delayed or lack of maintenance. This should be factored in to your choice.

You can read more about tuning the 2.5t in the thread below.

Joeycmsu’s build thread

Figured it was time to start a build thread as I am about to start some more ‘serious’ modifications... This build thread is for my 2006 XC90 2.5t AWD. It was purchased in 2012 with about 80k on the odo. Here we are in 2020, and it now has 208k miles and has been a great car. In the words of...

www.swedespeed.com

BenjaminD · Oct 9, 2023

I vote 5 cylinder with a little extra power. If there was a 3.0 T6 in the P2 XC90, I would go for that, but it never happened, and the 3.2 is not a high-performance engine. I echo what others have said. Maintenance is everything.

AllanM · Oct 9, 2023

As far as picking an older XC90 goes, for a winter beater I would take any P2 XC90 except the B6294T+4T65 driveline. The B5254T2 + AW55, B8444S+TF-80SC, and B6324S+TF-80SC are all good drivelines if they are well kept. That said, I would look for lower mileage where possible. The 2.5T and 3.2L engines have a lot of work to do to drag these 4500lb (empty) vehicles around for such small engines so I wouldn't expect a lot of life left from major components if you're getting into something with near 200K already on it. The V8 could probably go way more miles pulling one of these but the transmission, probably not...

The other thing I would look for is the smallest wheel package possible. In 2003-2004 the 16" brakes were standard, and these often came with 16" rims wrapped in 225/70R16. I'd be tempted to try to fit 225/75R16 for winter tires and drop the pressure down about 4-8PSI lower than the door jam calls for to lay out a longer contact patch. From 2005ish-2009ish, they used 17.5" brakes, so some 17" rims fit. 2010ish onward they have 17" brakes, but most shipped with 18" wheels in this era from my understanding....

I would be actively seeking out a 16" or 17" wheel option to get the maximum possible sidewall, maximum sidewall ratio, lowest safe operating pressures, and longest treadpatch.

Is there a particular reason you're looking for a larger XC90 for winter? Do you need something that big and heavy?

The P2 XC70 makes more sense to me as a winter beater with a bit of oomf as they weigh about 750lb less when equipped with the same 2.5T driveline, have lower center of gravity, but have almost the same ground clearance. You'd have to really mod the 2.5T pretty far to pull an XC90 to 60mph as fast as it pulls an XC70 to that speed in stock form. The XC70 will also get better fuel economy. I recall test driving XC90's with the 2.5T many years ago, and they felt pretty unexciting. By contrast, the XC70 with the same engine and transmission has very good acceleration, especially out of the hole.

The weight difference also needs to be considered when comparing the mileage on a driveline. A 2.5T+AW55 transmission in a 3700lb XC70 with 150K miles, is probably about as "wore out" as an XC90 with 130K miles on it. I expect you could get more for your money from an XC70, as a higher mileage option is apt to have more life left in it.

We run 215/70R16 studded snow tires @ ~30PSI in our 05 XC70 in winter. Check out the Nordman 7 or any relatively light weight winter tire in this size as an option. This is a "size up" on the ratio, nearly a 28" tire. Provides just a bit better clearance and "track-bite" on snow.

ChitownV · Oct 9, 2023

Well, maintenance is key and the V8 won't necessarily go longer than the 2.5t or the 3.2. All 3 engines can easily go past 200k miles if the maintenance is done. The V8 runs hot in the engine bay compared to the other two engines. The 3.2 has been bulletproof with less complicated systems compared to the 2.5t PCV or the V8 oil-leaking timing cover & alternator replacement. The 3.2's two main parts are the serpentine system service and the 10min to change PCV box. All engine variants should have good 5k mile oil changes with synthetic oil, unfortunately, Volvo's recommended oil service interval was ~7k+ miles with non-synthetic.

The larger brakes are on the V8 or XC90s with the 3rd row and can be used under XC90 17in wheels. Later, the 2 piston 328mm brakes were the only option. The larger brakes can be swapped in and I refreshed my original larger brakes with quality reman calipers from Rockauto. No need for 16in wheels. I've driven in 8-10in of Midwest lake effect snow on 17in and 18in wheels on all seasons. It really depends on the tire choice and the weight helps.

If future power is one of the top 5 priorities, then the 2.5t is the choice. Again, 280-300hp & 330 ft lbs is easily obtained. Higher power can be reliably done.

Compared to the XC70, the XC90 has a higher ground clearance, more space for family and gear, more interior height, usable 2nd row not just for kids which is important if you are a tall driver with the seat slid way back, a 3rd row option, is easier to get in and out of, a better driving view, and is safer. I have actually seen more XC70s worn out at 130k miles than XC90s because the XC90 original owners tend to be older or female drivers.

Usually, XC70 owners that prep their vehicles for Overlanding or off-road will upgrade to XC90 parts, add subframe spacers, etc. If I'm honest and in my very biased opinion, I still think the XC70 is a good car, but I think the XC90 design aged better.

A lot of XC90 buyers purchase the XC90 for a single purpose, like using it in the winter. But most find themselves driving it a lot more year round. It's an easy-to-get-in-and-go vehicle. It's ready for anything, including having good interior space for family and luggage on road trips.

ggleavitt · Oct 9, 2023

5 cylinder stops at MY06, 3.2 is the replacement until MY14. V8 runs MY05-11.

Drive a decent V8 and see how you feel. If you're willing to do some of your own work (motor reseal, aux belt path and maybe some motor accessories) every 120k or so, it's an outstanding powerplant for this vehicle with a ton of low end torque.

Yamaha's been turning their V8 sideways and using it to power an offshore motor for years, that ought to say something for how they view the motor's reliability (anyone doing this with a 3.2?).

Suspension is another area to consider, consider a Sport or R/D if you want a leg up on mods.

Kamil · Oct 10, 2023

thanks for all the feed back as always we will have some preferences you all gave me a lot of good information. If anyone else wants to add please do so maybe it will help others as well as its helping me.

jphowey · Oct 10, 2023

Our family has an XC70 with the 2.5 and an XC90 with the V8. I can't imagine the XC90 without that Yamaha V8. It is just such a smooth, powerful engine. The 2.5 in the XC70 has impressive power for its size and will move the car....but just not with the subtle grace and power of the V8.

Oro-o · Oct 10, 2023

AllanM said:
….

The weight difference also needs to be considered when comparing the mileage on a driveline. A 2.5T+AW55 transmission in a 3700lb XC70 with 150K miles, is probably about as "wore out" as an XC90 with 130K miles on it. I expect you could get more for your money from an XC70, as a higher mileage option is apt to have more life left in it.

…

This is an interesting thought, but I’m not really sure if it’s true. It could be, but - Bear w/me a moment.

In the marine world, because mileage isn’t calculable, hours are used. But that’s only an indirect proxy used to estimate total lifetime fuel usage, which IS the definite yardstick of engine life/wear. Some now use fuel meters directly for this purpose as tech makes that more practicable and cheaper. So the real question is if the XC90 is using a distinct amount more fuel to haul itself around if you are limited to comparing unit miles to unit miles. The EPA figures for 2005 are:

XC70 2.5t. 18/24
XC90 2.5t. 18/23

So the answer by this analysis is that it’s probably unlikely there’s a huge difference in real-world wear and tear between the two vehicles based on the best proxy we can find to estimate it.

This is a theory and I can’t say it’s entirely reliable, but it is based on the best proxy measurements I can come up with and known metrics of wear. And I do agree w/you wholeheartedly that unless the size is an important buying criteria, the XC70 is much more practical in this usage.

But despite that, I am in fact actively looking for a good XC90 for a family member currently (the form factor matters to them). All of my research on the engine choice makes me solely look at the 2.5t. And I’m a big V8 fan but as miles and time goes by, reliability and repairability seem to strongly favor the 2.5t from what I can find out. I’d rather drive the V8, but I really much rather want to service and repair the 2.5t. The six is not a contender.

AllanM · Oct 10, 2023

Oro-o said:
....The EPA figures for 2005 are:
XC70 2.5t. 18/24
XC90 2.5t. 18/23

Owner reported averages are ~23MPG for the 2.5T XC70's and ~20MPG for the 2.5T XC90's, a ~15% difference...

150/130...

It's almost as if we're thinking the same thing here.

Those EPA numbers you're quoting have a couple problems:
1. You're comparing the AWD XC70 to the FWD XC90
2. You're comparing the original EPA estimates which have been retracted/revised. The revised numbers are a bit lower and the gap is a bit wider between the 2.

-------------

I live at 7000ft elevation. This is where the complications and costs associated with turbos really pay off. A 200-250HP turbo volvo up here has about the same performance as a ~300HP N/A car. If I lived at lower elevation I wouldn't seek out turbo engines so selectively. The 3.2L is a pretty strong running engine at lower elevation, and SMOOTH running. I wouldn't discount it outright personally. The extra transmission gear and vibration free running go a long way IMO.

ChitownV · Oct 10, 2023

One other thing to consider is all XC90s with original suspension will need a complete front suspension refresh. There are parts with quality brand names that have low quality. Thus, it’s very specific which brand to use for each part. You can review the front suspension info here:

ChitownV: my front end rebuild/upgrade using OEM &amp...

(Feb 2023) This thread started to show an honest journey of trying different branded parts to improve the XC90 suspension. It has been updated to reflect the feedback of SwedeSpeed members and you can read their experiences in the rest of this thread. Some Volvo "blue box" parts do not last...

www.swedespeed.com

Magnus Cars · Oct 11, 2023

I can confirm a V8 XC90 is way faster than a 2.5t XC90 at 6500 ft in the Rockies.

I vote V8. We had a 2.5t before our V8. The V8 is far better. Only needed a starter and the vc/tc gasket service after 150k trouble free miles.

BenjaminD · Oct 11, 2023

Magnus Cars said:
I can confirm a V8 XC90 is way faster than a 2.5t XC90 at 6500 ft in the Rockies.

I vote V8. We had a 2.5t before our V8. The V8 is far better. Only needed a starter and the vc/tc gasket service after 150k trouble free miles.

That would sell me on an S80 V8 if not for the fact that most of them have eaten their front subframes here in the salty northeast.

Oro-o · Oct 11, 2023

AllanM said:
Owner reported averages are ~23MPG for the 2.5T XC70's and ~20MPG for the 2.5T XC90's, a ~15% difference...

150/130...

It's almost as if we're thinking the same thing here.

Those EPA numbers you're quoting have a couple problems:
1. You're comparing the AWD XC70 to the FWD XC90
2. You're comparing the original EPA estimates which have been retracted/revised. The revised numbers are a bit lower and the gap is a bit wider between the 2.

-------------

I live at 7000ft elevation. This is where the complications and costs associated with turbos really pay off. A 200-250HP turbo volvo up here has about the same performance as a ~300HP N/A car. If I lived at lower elevation I wouldn't seek out turbo engines so selectively. The 3.2L is a pretty strong running engine at lower elevation, and SMOOTH running. I wouldn't discount it outright personally. The extra transmission gear and vibration free running go a long way IMO.

Apples to apples comparison are the only valid measures to use. MPG figures for same year (2005) are:

90: 17/22
70: 18/24

These are scientifically done comparisons in controlled conditions. They may not be “real world,” but they create a baseline. I’ve had two XC70s that vintage, well tuned and low mile, and I know the 23 overall mpg is laugh.

The other reason I don’t trust rando “user reported” info is a classic medical, large scale study where they went back to verify self-reported data. It turned out 49% of the male respondents had incorrectly answered whether they were circumcised or not.

When 50% of men can’t tell what their own penis even LOOKS like, you are going to trust them to self-report, do math, and how be consistent in how they calculate MPGs correctly? I don’t.

The fact is there isn’t going to be a massive difference in engine wear based on mileage. It’s going to come down to maintenance and usage (idling, warm up, etc.). It’s a highly indivual unit thing and won’t be told by an odometer.

AllanM · Oct 12, 2023

Oro-o said:
Apples to apples comparison are the only valid measures to use. MPG figures for same year (2005) are:

90: 17/22
70: 18/24

These are scientifically done comparisons in controlled conditions. They may not be “real world,” but they create a baseline. I’ve had two XC70s that vintage, well tuned and low mile, and I know the 23 overall mpg is laugh.

The other reason I don’t trust rando “user reported” info is a classic medical, large scale study where they went back to verify self-reported data. It turned out 49% of the male respondents had incorrectly answered whether they were circumcised or not.

When 50% of men can’t tell what their own penis even LOOKS like, you are going to trust them to self-report, do math, and how be consistent in how they calculate MPGs correctly? I don’t.

The fact is there isn’t going to be a massive difference in engine wear based on mileage. It’s going to come down to maintenance and usage (idling, warm up, etc.). It’s a highly indivual unit thing and won’t be told by an odometer.

The margin of error among mistaken penis identity types is going to be largely the same for XC70 mileage reporters and XC90 mileage reporters, and like the EPA, I rounded a bit.

How sure are you that the scientific comparisons that had to be retracted, performed by the very trustworthy alphabet soup agency staffed by the same humans who don't know whether they are circumcised aren't actually:

90: 16.6/21.6
70: 18.4/24.4

~12% difference, which is pretty close to the difference in user reported mileage.

---------------

Our XC70 lately hasn't been getting great mileage over the last few months as the wastegate actuator is wore out, but previous to that, we've generally seen ~17mpg in town with spirited driving, ~23mpg on the highway (~full payload, 80+mph), up to ~28mpg with a light load on country and mountain roads (half payload ~55mph). I think the original ratings for the car are very close to accurate, despite the penis problems that the testers may or may not have had at the time, though considering the "new" ratings, which seem to be worse for older cars and better for new cars, there may be a penis problem involved there too, but a different type of penis problem, like a "government agency trying to bolster the sale of new cars through lies about the mileage of old and new cars." No government agency would ever do that, they are so trustworthy and honest, with no agenda, ever...

BenjaminD · Oct 12, 2023

Wow. From driveshafts to phalluses in record time. There is certainly a fixation on this forum.

I've had enough internet for the day!!

Best XC90 choice for winter driving

Kamil

thaneus

Kamil

ChitownV

Joeycmsu’s build thread

BenjaminD

AllanM

ChitownV

ggleavitt

Kamil

jphowey

Oro-o

AllanM

ChitownV

ChitownV: my front end rebuild/upgrade using OEM &amp...

Magnus Cars

BenjaminD

Oro-o

AllanM

BenjaminD

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