This is a difficult question to answer. IMO, the FWD 05,06, and 07 S60T5M are the most fun and reliable. But these manual transmission cars are rare in the US. Imports were 05=72, 06=79, 07=60. The European numbers are much higher. "Greed" Lots of Volvo enthusiasts including myself are convinced the P2 platform is the pinnacle of cars imported into the US until Ford bought Volvo. The "R" models are fantastic and finding a R with a manual isn't beyond a possibility. However, finding one that has not been modified to some degree is a different story. And the R is a more sophisticated car that I wouldn't recommend to a newbie. I drive a 07 2.5T and I really like this model. Power is quite substantial, and it handles nicely. If AWD isn't a necessity, it's not important to have IMO. It requires more maintenance, more things can fail, tires wear out faster. Whatever you decide to buy, make sure it has a complete service history. Good luck with your search.

 

The 05-07 T5 M66 with dark/black full leather interior is the one to get.

 

Oooh I like it, I guess that's FWD too. There are so many models and configs of the S60 so it is hard to remember all of them🤣.

Is the M66 5 speed or 6 speed?

 

I live in Sweden so it is pretty easy to find Volvo S60s

I have heard that the AWD system on S60s is a little bit wonky so I will probably get the FWD version.
Im not going to be modding this car, maybe some cosmetical minor stuff like an R front or other front bumbers. I don't really know.

The S60R is indeed very hard to find with a "good" mileage and not modded. I think that it was ahead of its time. Same goes with the base model.

Thanks for replying! I got a lot of new and good information! Take care

 

Awesome that you live in Sweden! That will help a ton finding a T5M. Volvo jipped the US enthusiast.

 

Yeah its kinda sad

 

I recently bought a v70R 6speed manual and loving it.

 

The V70r looks so good but the problem is that they are rare here too🤣. Its very hard to find them and those who you find, they always have 400k kilometers or more. Same with the S60r. Maybe not optimal for a first car

 

There are some who say the rod bearings on the later T5 models are not up to snuff, and can fail before their time. Buy with caution!

In the US, the 2.5T is by far the easiest P2 to find. It is a fantastic daily powertrain: smooth, torquey, reliable, and relatively efficient. It was available in FWD and AWD here, with 210ps or so, and 236 ft-lb of torque. I would recommend that setup to most people.

 

How much does it "usually" cost to fix those bearings?

The 2.5T is a really good engine from what I have heard. We will see, T5 or 2.5T 👍

 

Currently in one of my 05 T5's. 524000km is 325k miles.

I have not verified this but it seems the bearing thing could be a US thing only.

In either case the 05- T5 engine is considered an upgrade over the R engine.

 

That's really interesting. Volvo parts are more common here in Sweden so it can get a lot cheaper. Have a good one!

 

The P3 (and P1) is much much worse, but since its newer it just now starts to show on the outside.

 

Ive seen a lot of rust on the Volvo V70 T4 P3... It was not pleasant.

 

I'm chiming in late, but... my '07 2.5T continues to impress as a great all-rounder.

I wish it at least had the optional manu-matic shifting option for fun driving, because I can't get it to hold second gear on fun twisty roads... but I've owned a succession of other faster, more expensive, and very different types of cars, and I did hold onto the Volvo for sentimental reasons - but with just basic mild upgrades for handling and fun, the thing is amazing. It's been better at a wider variety of conditions than anything else I've owned.

But what really impresses me is what an incredible road trip choice it is - and I've done multiple cross country US trips in it. Not just because of the incredible seats and it's ability to sit at 100 mph all day, but that it's dead reliable. I don't take it on every big trip only because I've managed to keep the mileage low at just under 86k, and I'm in no hurry to put more on it than I have to.

Volvo got this one right.

 

Because its a better engine. The 2.5T has more power most of the time under "normal" driving.

Basically (as a generalization): The 00-04 T5 makes 247bhp sometime when it has had an hour and a half to spool up somewhere on the top end of the rev line, The 2.5T makes 210bhp all the time everywhere.

To state the 2.5T spec engine (B5254T2) is a better engine is an extremely subjective opinion.

The phenomena you're describing is torque, which as you can see on the below graph, the 2.5T has peak torque from 1500 to 4500 rpm. The 2.3T has peak torque from 2400 to 5200. The issue is, the 2.5T dies on the top end, making peak power at 5,000 whereas the 2.3T makes peak power around 6,500, and 47hp more at that.

If you prefer a good daily driver with accessible power at any RPM, then yes, the 2.5T is a better engine. If you prefer a more powerful, peaky engine that can be tuned for more power, the 2.3T has a thick block and can take it.

Saying the 2.5T is a better engine full stop just isn't true. It depends on what you want out of your Volvo

 

To state the 2.5T spec engine (B5254T2) is a better engine is an extremely subjective opinion.

The phenomena you're describing is torque, which as you can see on the below graph, the 2.5T has peak torque from 1500 to 4500 rpm. The 2.3T has peak torque from 2400 to 5200. The issue is, the 2.5T dies on the top end, making peak power at 5,000 whereas the 2.3T makes peak power around 6,500, and 47hp more at that.

If you prefer a good daily driver with accessible power at any RPM, then yes, the 2.5T is a better engine. If you prefer a more powerful, peaky engine that can be tuned for more power, the 2.3T has a thick block and can take it.

Saying the 2.5T is a better engine full stop just isn't true. It depends on what you want out of your Volvo


View attachment 269632

Numbers are only just that. The 2.5T engine is a newer generation engine in an old packaging. Its essentially the same engine as the R engine with as smaller turbo. Its also essentially the same engine as the Ford Focus ST225 and we all know these run pretty good.

Already back in 2003-2004 it was widely known among buyers and sellers the 2.5T outperformed the T5 in almost any regard. Nobody wanted the T5 after having driven both back to back at the dealer.

 

One also has to understand that if the engine has its torque band 1000rpm earlier down the rev range, the engine is going to respond much quicker everywhere. So while it has less power on paper, on the streets the 2.5T is a snappier engine (but still nothing compared to an even newer generation like the VEA) that makes it faster overall.

 

That's not true whatsoever. Having torque available down low doesn't mean an engine responds better overall. More displacement is what helps the 2.5 produce more torque down low as opposed to the 2.3T because it's a larger overall engine.

Engine response in general is determined by things like flywheel weight, air flow, tuning, throttle bodies, etc. Based on your previous responses, you might not have a complete understanding of how engines work and what changes affect how an engine performs.

 

Furthermore as we know the 2.5T is downtuned in software and on paper because of marketing reasons. The real power output is 240bhp which is what you get with the OEM Polestar tune.

 

I gotta jump in and say, you must specify years here because the Polestar tune from my understanding is only available from MY06+ So for example, I cannot Polestar tune my '04 2.5T. Not sure where the better "management" comes from if the Polestar tune didn't trickle down to the '04 MY.

That all said, are you referring to a FWD 2.5T or AWD model? My understanding again as I knew it was the T5 is essentially a de-tuned R in a body akin to the E30 M3 lightweight, but as an S60 of course. That being a detuned R but equitable as the lack of power is made up in the weight reduction from the absence of the AWD drivetrain.

I'll admit my 2.5T is pretty torquey on the street. It's great on the So Cal mountain roads. But if I'm on the highway, the T5 would be 100% usable for passing acceleration say from 40mph+

 

Its also not just the compression ratio. The rod length to crank radius on the 2.5T is better suited for street applications. All in all the 2.5T powerband is wider and more accessible. Noone does casual driving with engine above 4000rpm. That would be deathening, and any woman would jump out of the car.

 

I live in the home town of Volvo. These cars were born here. We have a higher concentration of wagons on our streets than anywhere in the world. There has not been a single instance of a cracked block on a 2.5T on stock or software tuned power levels. Not one.

Your anecdotal evidence doesn't replace data.

Its also not just the compression ratio. The rod length to crank radius on the 2.5T is better suited for street applications. All in all the 2.5T powerband is wider and more accessible. Noone does casual driving with engine above 4000rpm. That would be deathening, and any woman would jump out of the car.

Rod Lengths and Ratios

Learn how rod ratios and bore/stroke combinations impact engine performance and power delivery. Get insights from expert engine builders.

www.enginebuildermag.com

Rod ratios are not known to have a significant effect on engine performance

 

Your anecdotal evidence doesn't replace data.

Rod Lengths and Ratios

Learn how rod ratios and bore/stroke combinations impact engine performance and power delivery. Get insights from expert engine builders.

www.enginebuildermag.com

Rod ratios are not known to have a significant effect on engine performance

A post on Reddit is your data? 😂😂

 

B5234T3 for 01 T5 has 139.5 mm rod length as far as i know. I think its the same for 04 T5.

B5254T2 for 04 2.5T has 147 mm rod length.

Thats quite a considerable difference which gives the 2.5T (and the 05-07 T5) noticeable better midrange performance.

 

B5234T3 for 01 T5 has 139.5 mm rod length as far as i know. I think its the same for 04 T5.

B5254T2 for 04 2.5T has 147 mm rod length.

Thats quite a considerable difference which gives the 2.5T (and the 05-07 T5) noticeable better midrange performance.

View attachment 269639

Actually, 2.5T and R engines as well as 2.4t5 engine has 143mm rods length. The 2.3t5 early year had the 139.5mm rods which were replaced in 2002-2003 with 147mm rods. That's why a early year t5 tends to bend rods when boosting from low rpm. But torque wise the 2.5t has the most torque from lower rpm. There is no replacement for displacement. I heard people saying they felt the torque difference in less torque when they replaced the 2.5T R engine with the 2.4T5 engine

 

This is one of the best in-depth discussions I've seen in a forum in a long time.

I've never done back to back tests of any of these, but while my 2.5 T really doesn't have a ton of power up top, I've always been impressed of how well it scoots through twisty canyon runs because of how it delivers power. It really does get to the meat of the torque band easily, and makes it easy to keep the pace higher than you'd expect given the modest peak power.

So even in fun driving, for tighter roads, that torque makes a difference - though a limited slip differential would make a HUGE difference in the tighter corners when that inside tire unloads..

 

They’re ALL awesome. Period

 

I’ve owned my 04 S60 2.5T AWD for almost 2 years now, and i’ve absolutely loved it

Has been incredibly reliable, other than my own owner negligence 😅 It’s my first car so i learned a lot a bit too late, but it hasn’t been too bad getting everything done

Super smooth drive, predictable turbo spool time, and with AWD, it makes it a blast (and really good) to drive in winter, as we get a decent bit of snow here

They can be very meticulous cars, and have a bunch of quirks, but if you can keep up with maintenance, and get everything done RIGHT (<- big thing), then it should be smooth sailing for many KM/Miles

 

The 2.5T AWD is a good candidate for overall best.

It has the best engine.
Its the last year with glass headlights.
It has better seats than the 05+
It has better head unit options
Some intetior items have better fittings, buttons don't crack, better insulatipn in doors, much more elegant power connector if equipped with engine/block heater

There are some things though in the 06-07 that are a level up, most notably the "always on" AWD system, named Instant Traction. Center stack looks a bit nicer and in non US markets Sovereign hide and inscription became available in 05+.

 

I have and prefer the 2.5T FWD. Yes manual would be better, but they are rare. I like FWD for simplicity. 2.5T is plenty of power for a daily and less fragile than the T5. At this point I look at this config as the ultimate long mile car without getting so old as a 240. Mine has 225k miles and feels great.