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Volvo Haldex AWD vs. Audi Quattro

71K views 53 replies 25 participants last post by  Warpedcow  
#1 ·
Since we had a big snowstorm in the Northeast yesterday, I finally had a chance to drive the Volvo in a good amount of snow. I though I would write a summary of my experience with Volvo's Haldex system vs. the Quattro system in the '09 Audi A4 we traded in back in May. Both cars were on the same tires in similar conditions, not just the same make/model tire, the actual same tire, a Hankook Icebear W300 245/45/17 winter tire, so it gave me a good comparison since it removed tire differences from the equation and allowed the car to be the only factor.

Overall, I prefer Haldex to Quattro.

From a dead stop on a snow covered road, the Haldex exhibited more initial slip in the tires than the Quattro. I believe this is because the Quattro is RWD based (40/60 F/R split), so the weight of the car transferring to the back helps with initial traction during acceleration, where the Volvo is FWD based (95/5 F/R split). That is the only area where Quattro is better in my opinion.

At higher speed, the Quattro always felt a little unstable, meaning the steering wheel would move left/right or the rear would get out of line a little sometimes. The car would always correct, but there was a moment of slight concern. IMO, this is because the Quattro uses its locking center differential to correct slip front/rear and sensors to correct slip left/right through open front and rear differentials, which allow for more wheel spin. When slip occurs left/right it uses the brakes to shift power to other axels with traction, hence the instability feeling in the car. The Haldex is more stable at higher speed and more predictable when you run across say blowing snow covering half a lane. Since the Haldex constantly uses sensors to move the power, I didn't get that moment of concern because the car was always evaluating the conditions.

In low speed turns, the Haldex is better. The RWD bias of the Audi is it's shortcoming in this situation. I learned to drive on a RWD GMC Van, so I am used to the feeling of a sliding rear in snow, however in a $40K sedan I don't like the feeling as much, and Quattro slides it's rear a lot. The Haldex never felt like it was going to spin around nor did the rear end get out of line.

Anyone have any other comparisons from other cars they have owned? I would be curious to see differences between Haldex & X-Drive, 4-MATIC, Subaru's symmetrical AWD etc.
 
#3 ·
I took out our 13 XC60 in some barely plowed roads. There wasn't anyone around so I gave it more gas when turning a corner to see what would happen. Traction control kicked in and didn't experience any of the rear coming out. The car just moved in the direction I was pointing.

We traded in my 2011 3.6R Legacy for the XC. I've been a long time Subaru enthusiast and believe that they make a good product. In the same conditions with the Legacy, the rear would kick out. As long as I kept my foot on the gas and pointed the car in the direction I wanted, the car would self correct itself and I would be fine. I'm going to guess the rear kicked out b/c the power was 55/45 rear. So I suppose that the rear kicking out should be expected.

I haven't taken out or S60 in any real snow conditions yet, but I'm assuming it will react very similar to the XC.

All in all, I feel the Haldex works just fine a bit more refined than Subaru. When the Subaru had to make corrections, you could hear all the mechanicals etc vs. the XC which was perfectly silent and the dashboard didn't light up with all sorts of warnings.
 
#4 ·
With the Volvo, the DSTC light should blink. While weight distribution and torque distribution definitely affect vehicles' handling, I feel that Volvo's DSTC programming is their cars' strong point in foul weather. You won't find Audi or Subaru throwing fully loaded cars at the media on one of the world's most dangerous endurance courses and telling them to go wild.

Of course, this is also where being very front heavy really helps. ;)
 
#6 ·
Exactly. DSTC has come a long way since its first introduction, in the MY99 S80 2.9/T6. It is an indispensable feature and contributes to great stability.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Halidex is used in VW based Audi's. The Audi was nose heavy as well. I think the weight distribution was 55/45. I haven't found the Volvo's but my estimate is 60/40. The Audi pretended to be what it's not, a RWD sports sedan and handling suffered accordingly in foul weather. I admire Volvo for sticking to their FWD platform in the name of safety.
 
#10 ·
I agree that the traction control works wonders, and the DSTC works great in cornering, as long as there is no throttle. If there is throttle, a little above continuation of pace, the car will under steer. Without throttle, the DSTC will pull the nose back in corners beautifully in the snow... It's great to play with that a little going on and off the gas on snowy on-ramps... Very impressed... Tires do make a difference though...
 
#15 ·
I echo the orginal posters comments. This weekend I took my 2013 S60 T5 AWD from NYC to Killington, VT leaving Friday and returning Sunday. Over the course of the trip we experienced snow and slush covered roads, extreme cold (-20 F), freezing rain and on rare occasion dry pavement. Throughout the trip the S60 performed predictably and with minimal fuss. I was able to drive with no issue to the point where all of my passengers remarked at how stable the care was at various points.

Kudos to the team at Volvo.
 
#16 ·
I agree with the OP on the foul-weather handling of Quattro. I was disappointed with my 2011 S4's winter handling, but loved its rear-biased AWD the rest of the time. My previous car to the S4 was a Subie and I loved its AWD. The Volvo so far seems better than the Audi and on par with the Subaru for bad weather AWD performance. But the Subie had a heated windscreen also which helped make it the best winter car overall!
 
#18 ·
We haven't seen any re-tuned Haldex configurations to date for any models.

I don't believe this is accessible through OBD / the engine ECU. Rather Haldex has its own ECU.
 
#19 ·
The up-coming Polestar versions have a 'tuned' Haldex system. So it can be done,
but I suspect it requires the help of Volvo/Haldex to get access.

From: https://www.media.volvocars.com/glo...nd-v60-polestar-are-here-world-debut-for-a-new-volvo-v60-engineered-by-polestar

Transmission

The six-speed automatic gearbox features a new paddle shift system that together with the Polestar developed Haldex four-wheel drive system takes the car from 0-100 km/h in just 4.9 seconds and to a limited top speed of 250 km/h. The gearbox as well as the four-wheel drive system and traction control system has been recalibrated in order to provide an active driving experience and maximum grip in all situations.
 
#22 ·
My car has been great in the snow. If I was going to do it again, I wouldn't have gotten Pilot Alpin PA3s (basically an all season tire) but the Haldex has been fantastic.
 
#24 ·
Man, am I glad to find this discussion! I bought a 2004 S60R, AWD, manual transmission about a year ago. On ice, it handles beautifully, but on a road that is mostly dry, but with random patches of ice or slush, as I go over the slick spot, the car feels like its back end is going to come around to the front--VERY unnerving. I've never had the back end actually break into a skid, but it feels very dangerous.
So, does my car have a problem, or is this feeling I'm describing both normal for this car, and safe????
I have Goodyear tires, All Season Assurance TripleTred, with about 5000 miles on them.
Thanks for any advice!
 
#31 ·
1. Get proper winter tires.
2. Describe what is actually happening better. Are you coasting, cruising, accelerating hard, or braking when you have this happen? Are you driving straight or cornering?
3. Is the road smooth or bumpy when this happens? Are you sure the sensation you feel is related to ice and not bumps?
 
#25 ·
S60R's are knows to have this sensation simply based off of their sport tuning that is quite different from the standard cars, often called side hope. That's said, it should be a slight sensation and nothing scary. I'm sure DSTC is not going to let it come around, however worn components or misalignment often leads to increased wheel hop. A little sensation is normal, but I never found mine to be worrisome in the snow. Perhaps your rear suspension needs some checking. That' just my opinion after owning 4 S60s.
 
#27 ·
one of the best AWD systems out there is the evo x with ACD active center diff controls and active yaw control, its pretty good, along with the GTR and and the subaru wrx sti , sti with the symetrical AWD system has equal length drive shafts front and back ,

my new s60 r FWD spins a ton before it even engages at that, 1 wheel will spin more then the other, also it has a lot of push. was never a fan of torque vectoring, over yaw control.

probably the new polestar is better with more RWD bias.
 
#33 ·
Let's not start with these videos...nobody knows the exact setup, tinkering and conditions...

You can go through thousands of Swedespeed posts over the past 10 years and you will find out that the overwhelming majority of owners rave about how good their AWD Volvos have been performing even in deep snow...
 
#39 ·
Exactly, I've had zero issues with any of the AWD Volvo's that I have owned and fortunately have never gotten stuck either with a Haldex system; and I've been through some bad snow storms that I saw SUVs getting stuck but my Volvo did not. I did get stuck with my 2004 S40 FWD with snow tires on some ice.
 
#41 ·
A good alignment should have cured it then.
My S60 T5 never sidehopped. My R occasionally had minimal sidehop, mostly because I kept good tires on it at lower psi, and I kept it well aligned.

My S80 V8 AWD has a little sidehop, less than the R, but it is there still somewhat. The XC70 has basically zero sidehop but you could probably get it to if you really tried. Both these current cars have zero rear toe in the alignment now.
 
#35 ·
Here here!!

Remember when the XC90 was evaluated when new for car of the year for a magazine....the only two cars that could make the hill climb was a Hummer(!!!) and the XC90.

Quattro is quite good. Volvo's Haldex is pretty good, too. If Quattro was so awesome you would think they may use in on a Bugatti or a Lamborghini.....but they use Haldex. It's a never ending battle that really has no winner. The tuning differences between the systems is always going to provide different results in different conditions. Oh yeah...a video featuring a 2001-launched Volvo AWD system. I think the new ones work a little better than from 15 years ago.....
 
#36 ·
My previous car was a 2002 W8 Passat, with Audi quattro classic Torsen centre differential with side-to-side slip managed by the EDL (electronic differential lock).

Keeping in mind that was a HEAVY car, I found it good / competent in deep snow and especially ice, but when climbing hills, it was best to turn off the stupid ESP (stability control) and let the wheels spin. If you did so, you could make it up nearly any incline, but the brakes would grind away as the car tried to manage side-to-side power. Very noisy and unrefined. Also, unless you were employing rally driving technique, there was so much understeer that it was pretty much impossible to get the rear end to rotate, and instead, you'd often plow sideways through corners just as you feathered in the power. Very un-fun and annoying.

On the SAME tires (I transferred them to my S60 T6), the Volvo is brilliant. Leave DSTC on, you get a surprising amount of rear action before the computer steps in, and at the same time, no noisy brake grinding. The car seems to be more competent climbing hills and I don't have to tell my wife to "turn off DSP" when going up our street. That in itself makes me rest easy, as it's so easy to forget to turn ESP back on, and when she'd really need it, it wouldn't be there for her.

The S60 also has a surprising amount of tire slip before the AWD engages from a rest...but maybe that's because the T6 is TORQUEY!!! In any case, so safe and so fun in winter!

Note: I have never driven a Subaru but from what I've heard, these are pretty awesome too in the white stuff.
 
#38 · (Edited)
All of these systems are very well designed and have their own pros and cons. I find that the biggest difference comes from how the other systems work with the AWD system.

Haldex and DSTC work very, very well together. The other European luxury brands are competitive and driving preference will probably determine which you like most.

Subaru probably has the best lower priced option, and Hyundai has the worst. Their traction control is awful and will basically defeat the AWD system altogether in my experience. Toyota, Honda, etc. are all okay.

But if you really wanted the best traction, you wouldn't buy an Audi, a Volvo, or a Subaru. You'd buy a real 4x4. None of these systems compare to a true 4WD system. You can throw the best LSD in the world in with these fancy AWD systems and it won't provide the same reliable power to that one wheel with the grip as Quadra-Trac/Drive/whatever.

I've had my Volvo get stuck. I've helped people get their Subarus unstuck. I've helped people get their Audis unstuck.

If your Jeep is stuck, they'd all be stuck.
 
#43 ·
I've had my Volvo get stuck. I've helped people get their Subarus unstuck. I've helped people get their Audis unstuck.

If your Jeep is stuck, they'd all be stuck.
Hmmmm...My CJ-7 and Wrangler were no way near as capable in snow as my allroad or S60 RD. Even with lockable hubs on the CJ it was not a vehicle to instill confidence on in snow. I had my CJ-7 stuck in my driveway once, neighbors had to push me out, quite embarrassing.
My AWD Mitsubishi Galant GSX had more traction.
Not sure what today's Jeep has that is different, but for the driving I do on city streets and highways no way would I prefer a Jeep.
 
#44 ·
FWIW, Auto Motor und Sport did a comparison test of 10 AWD vehicles in snow, a few years ago. The surprising winner was the Volvo V60 D5 AWD. The V60 even returned the fastest time on a 720-meter handling test course, despite being down on power compared to some of it's competitors. Scores out of 100:

Volvo V60 D5 AWD - 91
Porsche Cayenne V6 - 90
Mini Cooper S Countryman All4 - 87
BMW X3 xDrive 20d - 84
VW Passat 2.0 TDI 4motion - 80
MB S350 4MATIC - 79
VW Phaeton 3.0V6 TDI 4motion - 79
Audi RS5 - 76
Range Rover TDV8 - 64
Subaru Impreza WRX STI - 59

http://www.halbeisenag.ch/uploads/pdf/Magazin.pdf

Excerpt on the handling test, via Google translate with a few edits:

So be it: An exclusive, compressed
snow perfectly groomed playground
is the basis for the handling test. Around 700
meters long, the course is peppered with
a short slalom, a large and
faster closer bend and with four
change curves. A clear case for the athletes
- one would think. But power isn't everything in the
tricky routing. Maneuverability,
a fast regulating all wheel drive system, good
traction performance and a possible neutral,
consistent handling are more effective.
These genes shone mainly in two of the ten subjects:
Porsche and Volvo.
 
#46 ·
Awesome!

I'll admit one of my concerns about getting the T6 was the AWD system versus the vaunted quattro. I had nothing to worry about!