Agree on the short term inevitability. Regardless of where you stand on electrification, EVs certainly have some benefits over their IC brethren, but battery density (range anxiety) and honestly, the sorry ass state of charger infrastructure is the biggest challenge. Don't forget that the massive install of the Electrify America network comes directly from the VW dieselgate scandal - its their penalty (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/10/vws...vws-2-billion-penalty-for-diesel-scam-builds-ev-charging-network-across-us.html) - so the incentive to build, maintain and repair a high quality network of chargers is just not there if you're FORCED to do it. And Tesla and their network, well, not going to open that can of worms here. I believe (just an opinion - not to be confused with facts) that technology will conquer fast charging, battery density and range issues over time, removing most of the barriers to broad-scale ownership. However the charger network will remain the choke point for the forseeable future, as will just pure electricity availability; this is one of the primary reason car makers have to slow their switch to electrification. I have clients that cannot build data centers or factories in certain places due to pure lack of available electricity (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/03/07/ai-data-centers-power/). Lots of other issues, too. I mean, I for one LOVE the sound of an old fashioned American V8 being wrung out. And my little 4-cylinder V60 with a honkin Heico exhaust ain't too bad either.

 

I for one, a new Volvo owner in 2-3 weeks when my plug in hybrid S60 arrives, have always made the joke, i want more people to buy TVs so gas goes down for those of us filling our tanks regularly in our gas guzzling M5s..lol. I must say the Volvo plug ins make such amazing sense. The inconvenience of the long way to grow state of charging infrastructure in the USA has made me stay away from EVs. I feel good about jumping on the save the earth bandwagon, and with grandkids in my near future, i feel even more so... never thought i would. The more I learn about Volvo, the more people i talk to that LOVE their Volvos the more I think Volvo is doing a great job of transitioning to a predominately EV line up. I think if they would release the S60 (now in its last year.which i think is dumb) as a convertible they would have a big winner on their hands as well) I will say after seeing the new EX90 I could imagine myself owning one. Level 2 charger going into the garage in a week, so im certainly preparing for the future...lol.

 

I can't access that article, but I don't think this is new news. A large manufacturer that can't do a necessary course correction when needed will not survive long.

Or will need to get rescued by a larger corporation, as happened to Volvo several times in recent years.

I still think the trend is toward EVs. There's an incentive for all the players to work out the kinks. (Though there have been articles recently about Musk apparently trying to slow down the Tesla charger sharing plans he negotiated.)

A lot of the resistance to EV is reflexive and nonthinking. Anyone who's driven an EV or even a PHEV knows that's it's superior tech.

FWIW I had a west Iowa farmer in as a patient last week who just ordered his second Tesla Model 3. He drives routinely to Michigan to visit his kids, and says there's no problem planning the trip around existing charging stations with minimal hassle. And no waiting.

If you can find me someone more stubborn and little-C conservative than an Iowa farmer, I'd like to know who it is.

 

I still think the trend is toward EVs. There's an incentive for all the players to work out the kinks. (Though there have been articles recently about Musk apparently trying to slow down the Tesla charger sharing plans he negotiated.)

A lot of the resistance to EV is reflexive and nonthinking. Anyone who's driven an EV or even a PHEV knows that's it's superior tech.

FWIW I had a west Iowa farmer in as a patient last week who just ordered his second Tesla Model 3. He drives routinely to Michigan to visit his kids, and says there's no problem planning the trip around existing charging stations with minimal hassle. And no waiting.

If you can find me someone more stubborn and little-C conservative than an Iowa farmer, I'd like to know who it is.

+1
I'm not one to share my opinions, but anyone who thinks EV's aren't the future is a blithering idiot!

 

The article was on CNBC and had trouble imbedding the link. The early rush to EV only goals were, perhaps sincere, but marketing as well. The switch to all EV vehicles nationwide is not possible for a very very long time. The real risk is maybe that it turns out to be a bridge technology since it isn’t really without its own eco challenges, toxicity of the batteries and what is being used to generate the electricity we use to charge. The obvious lack of working charging stations, limited range and time necessary for recharging are all solvable. Ive experienced the risk of early adoption in several technologies and it more often or not is worth waiting a bit to see the story play out a bit. I think my PHEV was the best choice for me giving me the best of both worlds. I use Pure mode mostly but really enjoy the Polestar option as well. Car has multiple personalities, all of which I appreciate.

 

Now if they would only bring back 5 cylinder ICEs, at least for a little while...

 

Yes, Volvo has backtracked on the 2030 full electric thing ... somewhat. Every model type will be available as full electric BEFORE 2030, what we are seeing here in an admission that the market may not be ready to embrace it in large enough numbers by then. But if it happens, they could still do it.

The big problem in the North American market is that currently the infrastructure of EV charging is not enough and not reliable enough. Volvo will be ready to align when this happens.

There are many who don't want to believe it, but ICE is going the way of the dodo bird.

 

How’s the Volvo deal with Tesla re’ charging stations working out?

If I bought a Volvo EV right now, I’d be concerned about being able to use the Tesla charging network in the near future.

That’s the key to a lot of people choosing EVs. The public charging network may be getting there, but too slowly.

Of course you could charge at home. But for long trips?

Surprisingly, despite being part of one of the largest medical centers in Omaha, the hospitals and clinics where I work do not have dedicated Level 2 chargers (to my knowledge). (People do plug into the numerous 110 wall outlets in the parking garage to top off, though.)

 

^^

In regards to the Tesla network, that whole thing about Elon firing everyone has probably delayed this? Something has to come from them about it, I believe. The Volvos will be able to use both networks once they get their act together. I agree with you that the public charging network needs improving, and I believe this is what is prompting Volvo to take a softer stance. For city driving, there is no problem because you charge at home ... but for long distance I understand why people are apprehensive, at least today.

You know I'm in the Toronto area. Every hospital I have been at in the area has a lot of EV infrastructure in their parking facilities. I'd argue that the hospitals are best equipped, and possibly it's because EV adoption among those in the medical profession is higher than average (this is a fact). Mind you, Toronto metro is about 6 million+ population, Omaha is what, 500K including the IA suburbs?

110 is painful for a full EV (it doesn't hurt the car but it's just too slow) - 240 is definitely the way to go.

I‘m surprised we don’t have more chargers. There were one or 2 at the main hospital, but looks like they’ve been removed for some reason. I will have to ask one of the staff officers when I see them. About 10-20% of the cars in the doc parking lot are EVs.

I don‘t know about the other hospitals. I used to work at almost all of them, but in my current job only cover 4 on at least a part-time basis.

I'm not convinced EVs are the future...😅

I understand EVs bring about their own set of advantages and limitations, but my main sticking point with EVs (as commuter cars) is the supply network. Where I live, we use hydro to make our electricity and are still running into an electricity deficit (somewhat ironically there have been many protests from environmentalists in my area about the environmental damage caused by building more hydroelectric dams), and thus need to import electricity from nearby provinces which generate their electricity in less environmentally responsible methods.

This is a bit anecdotal, but recently I got a call from a customer (who happens to distribute natural gas in my area) to help them with starting up a cogeneration plant (burning natural gas to create electricity) which had been shut down for decades. I asked them why this needed to be started back up, and they said that recent electricity demands in the areas from the huge growth in EVs has necessitated electricity demand and this was the easiest way to help make up the difference.

In the US, most of the electricity sources are still made by either coal or burning natural gas. Electricity in the U.S. - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

As a driving enthusiast, you can't beat an EV in a straight line, but they are heavier, feel completely souless in their power delivery (yes a purely biased opinion), and just generally don't inspire any enthusiasm from me. Commuter car, sure. But as an automotive enthusiast after being in a variety of EVs on racetracks, it really just is missing the visceral excitement coming from an ICE.

I'm also not sure what/how we're going to replace/recycle all those batteries when they reach end of life (please enlighten me if I'm wrong about that). Yes, I know Tesla claims they last basically forever, but to be honest I can't trust anything they say 😅.

In an urban environment, for short travel, I can certainly see the benefits of EVs, but until I see EVs being implemented on a large scale in more extreme environments (cold/hot locations) with quicker / more plentiful charging methods that don't detrimentally affect the health of the battery itself, batteries being mined, built, and disposed of in environmentally responsible ways, and electricity being generated in likewise environmentally responsible ways, you can call me skeptical on EVs as "the solution". On top of that, until I see a way to make plastics or a substitute in an environmentally responsible way (ie not from hydrocarbon sources), tires in a likewise fashion, metals for the car being mined/cast/forged without the use of hydrocarbons, glass being produced without the same hydrocarbon sources, there will be always environmental impacts to everything we make. Obviously this is a journey, but I need to see more evidence that we are making ground here. I've seen too many EV owners where I live being incredibly smug about their environmental contributions from driving EVs (I've seen many custom vanity license plates with "LOL OIL" or the like).

From a practical standpoint until I see them being used as the main power source for semi-trailers and have all those demands ironed out, I will be skeptical. To me EVs look like "one solution" where many people are focused on the end product rather than considering how everything is made, where things/energy comes from, and how we are going to supply that energy. EVs/PHEVs as an alternative? Sure. But until we address those problems above, I don't really see it being the end all be all (environmentally, anyway) like people make it out to be.

Other countries like Norway have found a way to deal with the issues around EVs. The percent of cars sold which are EVs is 82%. The percent of EV semis is 10%. (I think it gets quite cold there as well!)

In China EVs account for 40% of sales and growing. (Though PHEV outsold BEV last year.) Half the new EVs in the world are sold in China.

BTW, coal continues to fall as an energy source in the US—currently 16%. It is not as cheap as natural gas and has been steadily declining. Hydro and wind are increasing, the latter especially in the Great Plains states.

My recent fun cars were Miatas, and I think there will still be a place for ICE cars at the track and on the twisty roads of the mountains. There’s no law against owning them. I didn’t like taking my Miata on long car trips though.

But for the day to day commuting that 95% of us do, EV is clearly superior. When making strategic plans for the future, we need to focus on the driving we do 95% of the time, not 5% of the time.

 

^^


I‘m surprised we don’t have more chargers. There were one or 2 at the main hospital, but looks like they’ve been removed for some reason. I will have to ask one of the staff officers when I see them. About 10-20% of the cars in the doc parking lot are EVs.

I don‘t know about the other hospitals. I used to work at almost all of them, but in my current job only cover 4 on at least a part-time basis.



Other countries like Norway have found a way to deal with the issues around EVs. The percent of cars sold which are EVs is 82%. The percent of EV semis is 10%. (I think it gets quite cold there as well!)

In China EVs account for 40% of sales and growing. (Though PHEV outsold BEV last year.) Half the new EVs in the world are sold in China.

BTW, coal continues to fall as an energy source in the US—currently 16%. It is not as cheap as natural gas and has been steadily declining. Hydro and wind are increasing, the latter especially in the Great Plains states.

My recent fun cars were Miatas, and I think there will still be a place for ICE cars at the track and on the twisty roads of the mountains. There’s no law against owning them. I didn’t like taking my Miata on long car trips though.

But for the day to day commuting that 95% of us do, EV is clearly superior. When making strategic plans for the future, we need to focus on the driving we do 95% of the time, not 5% of the time.

Personally, I see nuclear coming more into play. Ontario and Quebec are rich in producing hydroelectric too, and there is probably more opportunity for that in BC and Manitoba specifically.

Most of the major trucking fleets in the US have electric semis running regional runs especially. They are mostly still in beta but I know that some of them have repeated orders and are expanding it.

Back to the hospitals here ... all hospitals seem to have a multitude of chargers, and especially if you know Toronto, we have Hospital Row on University Ave with 5 major hospitals. Literally hundreds of chargers there across the different parking lots. Puts the shopping malls to shame actually.