Nope. Volvo took the whole “Swedish minimalism” and somehow translated that into giving the driver as little information as possible. Indirect tpms, no coolant temp, trans temp, engine oil pressure, no physical dipstick, etc.

In reality, it was likely a cost cutting measure. They could have easily recouped the cost by making the panoramic roofs an option for US customers. Swedes can be really smart, but sometimes they make zero sense.

 

Nope. Volvo took the whole “Swedish minimalism” and somehow translated that into giving the driver as little information as possible. Indirect tpms, no coolant temp, trans temp, engine oil pressure, no physical dipstick, etc.

In reality, it was likely a cost cutting measure. They could have easily recouped the cost by making the panoramic roofs an option for US customers. Swedes can be really smart, but sometimes they make zero sense.

Bummer I can view all those on both of my Chevys.

I love our XC60 Recharge Ist Euro car we have owned but I will have to use my tire gauge just to check the pressures

 

From what I understand, there is no TPS, instead they use the ABS circuitry to measure the difference in tire rotation to determine if a tire has changed therefore under or over inflated. Saves money not needing to buy Tire pressure sensors for the extra winter tires/ wheels.

 

That option does not exist with the XC60, the same is the case with many other vehicles from the EU

XC60 Tyre pressure monitoring system | Volvo Support UK

Volvo Support for XC60 Tyre pressure monitoring system | The tyre pressure monitoring system, gives a warning with an indicator symbol in the driver display when the pressure in one or more of the car's tyres is too low.

www.volvocars.com

 

That option does not exist with the XC60, the same is the case with many other vehicles from the EU

XC60 Tyre pressure monitoring system | Volvo Support UK

Volvo Support for XC60 Tyre pressure monitoring system | The tyre pressure monitoring system, gives a warning with an indicator symbol in the driver display when the pressure in one or more of the car's tyres is too low.

www.volvocars.com

Thank you for the link that explains the system.
That is interesting to know that the ITPM system does not become active until you drive several miles above 22mph.

 

Yeah, that's kind of nonsense you get no warning before you start a trip.

Makes sense there's no compatible sensors. System can't show the info anyhow.

 

Yeah, that's kind of nonsense you get no warning before you start a trip.

just use a gauge and set it before the trip and take the gauge with you. The TPMS system is a PITA anyway

 

If the tire light goes off, check tires right away... ask me how I know. I'm waiting a week for a replacement tire and had to get a rental.

 

You would not have been in this predicament if Volvo kept with direct TPMS.

 

I had a direct TPMS on the first SPA platform car, a 2016 XC90 D5. Worked like a charm.
Then I had two cars (XC90 T8s) with this indirect system and it just did not work. I had all issues - false positives, tons of those, but also failure to detect 10 psi+ drops. It is pure garbage, and a totally puzzling choice for a brand that pretends to care about safety. Because trying to save $100 for sensors on car with $80k list price somehow makes sense to somebody?
Yet, we have beaten this horse to death. Volvo won't bulge, and I won't buy another one... but TPMS is, of course, only a minor contribution to that decision.

 

Same here. Nice idea, poor implementation.

 

I am an ITPMS champion myself. I hate extra maintenance items like DTPMS. All I need is to know that its low, I dont care at all if its 32 psi or 20 psi. Its plenty sensitive. Just like for a regular car you dont need a temp gauge, you only need to know there is a problem. No such thing as a little temp problem. And you should reinflate right away, not wait until 20...

 

If I'm off by 2 PSI, I don't care, unless it moves to 3. I'd rather know I can keep going. Fortunately, that is most relevant when I'm towing and I'm in our cheaper, but brawnier, Chevy Tahoe, and it tells me the PSI right on my dash... To me, that's more luxury.

 

You can enable it on Sensus car with Orbit. You just need the sensors, don't need to program them to the car.

 

I've never heard of that option
What sensors do you use, I had several models on different vehicles and of course the new sensors must be programmed to be functional

 

I honestly don't how ITPMS is legal, even the CFR says they're ****. Skip to the bold.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/fmvss/TPMSfinalrule.pdf

"Safety Problem
A. Infrequent Driver Monitoring of Tire Pressure
B. Loss of Tire Pressure Due to Natural and Other Causes
C. Percentage of Motor Vehicles with Under-Inflated Tires
D. Consequences of Under-Inflation of Tires
1. Reduced Vehicle Safety - Tire Failures and Increases in Stopping Distance
2. Reduced Tread Life
3. Reduced Fuel Economy

A. Indirect TPMSs
Current indirect TPMSs work with a vehicles ABS. The ABS employs wheel speed sensors to measure the rotational speed of each of the four wheels. As a tires pressure decreases, the rolling radius decreases, and the rotational speed of that wheel increases correspondingly. Most current indirect TPMSs compare the sums of the wheel speeds on each diagonal (i.e., the sum of the speeds of the right front and left rear wheels as compared to the sum of the speeds of the left front and right rear wheels). Dividing the difference of the sums by the average of the four wheels speeds allows the indirect TPMS to have a ratio that is independent of vehicle speed. This ratio is best expressed by the following equation: [(RF + LR) (LF + RR)/Average Speed]. If this ratio deviates from a set tolerance, one or more tires must be over- or under-inflated. A telltale then indicates to the driver that a tire is under-inflated. However, the telltale cannot identify which tire is under-inflated. Current vehicles that have indirect TPMSs include the Toyota Sienna, Ford Windstar, and Oldsmobile Alero. Current indirect TPMSs must compare the average of the speeds of the diagonal wheels for several reasons. First, current indirect TPMSs cannot compare the speed of one wheel to the speeds of the other three wheels individually or to the average speed of the four wheels. During any degree of turning, the outside tires must rotate faster than the inside tires. Thus, all four wheel speeds deviate significantly when the vehicle is in a curve or turn. If a current indirect TPMS compared each individual wheel speed to the average of all four wheels speeds, the system would provide a false alarm each time the vehicle rounded a curve or made a turn. The same would be true if the indirect TPMS compared each individual wheel speed to the speed of the other three wheels individually. Since the outside wheels would rotate much faster than the inside wheels in a curve or turn, each outside tire would appear to be under-inflated when compared to an inside tire. Current indirect TPMSs also cannot compare the speeds of the front wheels to the speeds of the rear wheels because in curves, the front and rear wheels (on both sides of the vehicle) rotate at different speeds. This is primarily due to the fact that the front axle is steerable and follows a different trajectory than the rear axle. As a result, current indirect TPMS must compare a tire from each side and a tire from the front and rear axles to factor out the speed difference caused by curves and turns. Thus, current indirect TPMSs must compare the average speed of the diagonal wheels. The VRTC tested four current ABS-based indirect TPMSs. None met all the requirements of either alternative proposed in the NPRM. All but one did not illuminate the low tire pressure warning telltale when the pressure in the vehicles tires decreased to 20 or 25 percent below the placard pressure. The VRTC determined that since reductions in tire diameter with reductions in pressure are very slight in the 15-40 psi range, most current indirect TPMSs require a 20 to 30 percent drop in pressure before they are able to detect under-inflation. The VRTC also concluded that those thresholds were highly dependent on tire and loading factors. The VRTC also found that none of the tested indirect TPMSs were able to detect significant under-inflation when all four of the vehicles tires were equally under-inflated, or when two tires on the same axle or two tires on the same side of the vehicle were equally under-inflated. However, the VRTC did find that indirect TPMSs could detect when two tires located diagonally from each other (e.g., the front left and back right tires) became significantly under-inflated."

 

I honestly don't how ITPMS is legal, even the CFR says they're ****. Skip to the bold.




https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/fmvss/TPMSfinalrule.pdf



"Safety Problem
A. Infrequent Driver Monitoring of Tire Pressure
B. Loss of Tire Pressure Due to Natural and Other Causes
C. Percentage of Motor Vehicles with Under-Inflated Tires
D. Consequences of Under-Inflation of Tires
1. Reduced Vehicle Safety
2. Tire Failures and Increases in Stopping Distance
3. Reduced Tread Life Reduced Fuel Economy

A. Indirect TPMSs
Current indirect TPMSs work with a vehicles ABS. The ABS employs wheel speed sensors to measure the rotational speed of each of the four wheels. As a tires pressure decreases, the rolling radius decreases, and the rotational speed of that wheel increases correspondingly. Most current indirect TPMSs compare the sums of the wheel speeds on each diagonal (i.e., the sum of the speeds of the right front and left rear wheels as compared to the sum of the speeds of the left front and right rear wheels). Dividing the difference of the sums by the average of the four wheels speeds allows the indirect TPMS to have a ratio that is independent of vehicle speed. This ratio is best expressed by the following equation: [(RF + LR) (LF + RR)/Average Speed]. If this ratio deviates from a set tolerance, one or more tires must be over- or under-inflated. A telltale then indicates to the driver that a tire is under-inflated. However, the telltale cannot identify which tire is under-inflated. Current vehicles that have indirect TPMSs include the Toyota Sienna, Ford Windstar, and Oldsmobile Alero. Current indirect TPMSs must compare the average of the speeds of the diagonal wheels for several reasons. First, current indirect TPMSs cannot compare the speed of one wheel to the speeds of the other three wheels individually or to the average speed of the four wheels. During any degree of turning, the outside tires must rotate faster than the inside tires. Thus, all four wheel speeds deviate significantly when the vehicle is in a curve or turn. If a current indirect TPMS compared each individual wheel speed to the average of all four wheels speeds, the system would provide a false alarm each time the vehicle rounded a curve or made a turn. The same would be true if the indirect TPMS 49 compared each individual wheel speed to the speed of the other three wheels individually. Since the outside wheels would rotate much faster than the inside wheels in a curve or turn, each outside tire would appear to be under-inflated when compared to an inside tire. Current indirect TPMSs also cannot compare the speeds of the front wheels to the speeds of the rear wheels because in curves, the front and rear wheels (on both sides of the vehicle) rotate at different speeds. This is primarily due to the fact that the front axle is steerable and follows a different trajectory than the rear axle. As a result, current indirect TPMS must compare a tire from each side and a tire from the front and rear axles to factor out the speed difference caused by curves and turns. Thus, current indirect TPMSs must compare the average speed of the diagonal wheels. The VRTC tested four current ABS-based indirect TPMSs. None met all the requirements of either alternative proposed in the NPRM. All but one did not illuminate the low tire pressure warning telltale when the pressure in the vehicles tires decreased to 20 or 25 percent below the placard pressure. 29 The VRTC determined that since reductions in tire diameter with reductions in pressure are very slight in the 15-40 psi range, most current indirect TPMSs require a 20 to 30 percent drop in pressure before they are able to detect under-inflation. The VRTC also concluded that those thresholds were highly dependent on tire and loading factors. The VRTC also found that none of the tested indirect TPMSs were able to detect significant under-inflation when all four of the vehicles tires were equally under-inflated, or when two tires on the same axle or two tires on the same side of the vehicle were equally under-inflated. However, the VRTC did find that indirect TPMSs could detect 50 when two tires located diagonally from each other (e.g., the front left and back right tires) became significantly under-inflated."

None of that surprises me. Volvo missed their “safety” goal by seeking cheaper ways out. I’d take any issue on direct TPMS any day - including dead batteries. Rather than the garage Volvo has thrown on these cars. 3 of 4 SPA’s we’ve owned have given false alerts. Knock on wood the 2023 has been flawless. 🤞

 

So we're using an article that references an Oldsmobile as a current model? Every problem they mention has a programmable solution. What was the last Olds 2004?

 

Would I rather have a direct readout in the dash that is accurate within 1psi and spend less than a $100 to get it or would I like to play guess the press until I spend the time to unscrew every cap and check every pressure 12 times a year. Plus your hands get dirty so picking your nose afterwards is out the door.

Bottom line, TREAD was enacted for the above reasons - keeping all tires properly inflated, and ITPMS still fails at that.

 

Yeah, that article is at least 20 years old. I'm kinda with D on this one.

I have no gripes with the ITPMS. Anecdotally, it worked perfectly when I got a nail in my tire. Very slow leak and it caught it when the pressure reached low 30s (down from 39).

Nice to not have any sensors to replace. I do see how it could potentially lead to people to ignore their tire pressure for longer, though basic car maintenance seems be highly neglected in general by many these days.

 

For slow leaks, sure. I got a nail and had a very fast leak. I'm very sensitive to how my cars drive and felt the rear was a little squirrelly and started moving towards the slow lane immediately. Within a half mile I was pulled over and the tire was almost completely flat. No warning, ever.

Another time when I was losing about 5psi per hour(only knew that after the fact), it took about 8 miles for the system to tell me I was low. 15psi. Filled it to 40 and it took hours to go low again. I was monitoring with my needle gauge....because owning this Volvo forces me to have one in the glovebox(honestly, I would have it anyways)...

An awful system that may leave you in more trouble than you should be in.

 

To me, the situation is much worse that Volvo does not use brake pad wear sensors

 

Yeah, I suppose most states don't have annual inspection, not sure about other countries, and most people don't inspect themselves (which is the whole value of TPMS too....)

 

Don't forget to rebalance when adding the sensors.

 

Who would ever install any tire without balancing anyways? No one.

 

DFrantz, I think it really comes down to - does it, or does it not, work. And here we seem to have very different experiences.
I have over 200k miles on SPA XC90s. Three owned cars, tons of loaners because, well, we are talking about Volvos. It systemically did not work. Granted, I am probably an "extreme" user. I drive into mountains regularly, with the added issues of dramatic changes in temps and air pressure. I change tires often, because, well, I value safety - so I do use winter wheels. IT JUST DOES NOT WORK. I hit potholes and had a tires completely shred without the system triggering. I had plenty of 10+ psi drops not detected, where I feel the tire being off before the system triggers. I also had DOZENS of false positives, in all sorts of conditions.
Indirect systems can work. They are never great, but they can work.
Volvo's does not.
Does it occasionally get it right? Sure. I have anecdotes of it actually working, even identifying the correct tire once.
But what is acceptable, for a safety device? Is 95% of the time ok? Is it 90? What I am trying to say, you need to have confidence in a safety device. You can't trust this crap.

 

I like gauges, dipsticks,TPMS and anything else that can allow the driver to see things before a bigger failure occurs. A climbing temp gauge can alert the driver that a issue is about to happen before it overheats. The color of oil can show you if there is a water intrusion issue happening before bearing damage occurs. Lower engine oil pressure is also a helpful telltale. Same goes for a tranny, pink is good but brown is not. I am a very hands on car guy rebuilding and restoring many cars and the more information that I have at my disposal the better. As far as TPMS its nice that it alerts me immediately that my wifes tire is going flat especially after my car sits overnight and it's also much easier to fix with my floor jack, compressor and tools then driving a few blocks away and then alerted with a flat tire. I have no issue with failsafe systems as they certainly work but sometimes maybe too late. Didn't a Volvo have a car fire recently and the driver was alerted to get out of the car because battery temperature was too high and the good news they got out safely but maybe a gauge or just a LED display showing battery temp rising may have stopped the total loss of the car and the very close call to the lives of the occupants.

 

Yeah, the oil level gauge in my S90 is utter trash.

 

@richardGG24 - thanks for the information. How sure are you the Schrader system will work on the Sensus XC60? From what I see from parts stores, these are the applicable Volvo models: S60, S80, V60, V90, XC90.

 

I believe the Volvo part number is 31362304 for all Sensus cars, matter fact this is the part number you need to use when programming Autel MX sensors, you can cross reference it back to the OEM Schrader 28304.

 

I have my eye on the TST system. Would you suggest others to consider? My priority would be reliability/quality, followed by having something that works for me for the in-cabin unit. I don’t want a tire monitor sitting on my dashboard all of the time or stuck in the cigarette lighter. Ideally it would be stored but active, such that I would hear a pressure alarm. I would prefer 12V hardwire or replaceable batteries.

 

Ah, okay, anyone see a DTPMS solution for P1?