Nice, but I miss something with 340-380 hp (T7 maybe).

 

Volvo's plan for greater than 302 horsepower is to use electric motors, for a total of around 400HP. When adding them at the rear axle, both hybrid power and AWD are achieved without mechanical drive coupling from front to rear. The new XC90 will use this scheme:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volvo/xc90/63546/new-volvo-xc90-release-date-price-rumours

BTW, we are of Slovenian descent and have relatives there. We visited a few years ago in an MIT alumni tour.. beautiful country!

Tony Jagodnik

 

- "The number of cylinders for the new family is limited to four. Not having to reserve space for larger engines enables a small engine bay, making room for advanced front space for larger engines enables a small engine bay making room for advanced front wheel suspension with world-class handling, a short front vehicle overhang and in-creased safety performance."

so in the nearest future volvo must go with new RWD/AWD platform architecture for high performance engines)

 

so in the nearest future volvo must go with new RWD/AWD platform architecture for high performance engines)

your quote is incorrect

- "The number of cylinders for the new family is limited to four. Not having to reserve space for larger engines enables a small engine bay, making room for advanced front wheel suspension with world-class handling, a short front vehicle overhang and in-creased safety performance."

Volvo will stay FWD, this layout suits perfectly the plug-in hybrid cars equipped with a e-AWD rear axle.
-The car can do regenerative braking with 4 wheels without the mechanical lose of a prop shaft.
-The battery pack can be placed within the drive shaft tunnel.

The 4cyls may be limited (if you think that +300hp are weak) but the electric motors capacities are them without limits.
Volvo will do a 400hp T8 with 2 electric motors and a T6 4cyls. One can dream of a +500hp Polestar variant with 3 electric motors (one in the front axle as a ISG in the gearbox and two for the rear axle like honda does with the "hybrid SH-AWD")

 

Source?

Very interesting article! It contains more detail than I have seen anywhere. Was it written by Volvo?

 

Nice, a good read. Thanks!

 

Also for me a very informative article, thanks for posting it up.

Most interesting point for me is that Volvo are incorporating the plasma spraying of the outside of the cylinder liners to strengthen the structure, exactly as they did in the manufacture of the batch of engines that were made in Skjovde for the Ford Focus RS.

Regards, Don.

 

How did that work out for the Ford Focus RS?

I found it interesting that they used roller cam followers and steel cams for the diesel, but flat tappets and cast iron cams for the petrol engine. Does anyone know why they didn't use a common design?

 

Buy a car with the engine you want. Our Saab Aeros did fine with 4-cylinder, 2.3L, 250hp port injected turbo engines for the past decade. That said, we purchased the 2014 S60 with the 5-cylinder engine because it is time tested and I decided to wait a year or two on the DI e-Drive engine to see how it holds up.

 

There was a lot of talk in the industry a few years ago about VW by virtue of the cars they offered in the US, telling Americans what they should drive instead of offering us models that we'd want to drive. Sales were slumping. VW has changed their approach since then.

What's going on with Volvo right now feels similar. But maybe if their sales are good enough with these new VEA engines, they'll will be able to expand the engine line. That's my hope anyway. If I want an I-5, I-6, or a V8 then that is my perogative.

 

Very good point.

Say the 4 cylinder only strategy affects sales negatively. Does Volvo have a 6 cylinder in the wings they can use in the new SPA cars? Could they restart production of the 3.0 liter they are using now?

 

I really don't get all the angst about cylinder count. I think there are a few valid reasons to reserve judgment on Drive-E but the number of cylinders is absolute dead last on the list. It's like getting bent out of shape because the cylinder head just isn't an acceptable shade of grey to find on a high-end vehicle. It's such a dated and silly way to look at engines.

 

I will try to explain my PERSONAL problem with it. I just went to the configurator on the VCNA website. A XC70 with the new engine MSRPs for $47 to $48K configured the way I would like one equipped if I bought it NEW. In my way of thinking, that's just TOO MUCH for a 4 cylinder car. I would rather spend the extra money and get a Turbo 6. But that's just my PERSONAL way of thinking.

 

I understood Volvo's boss to be Chinese. ?? Did I miss news of another Volvo sale?
.
With all Volvo's ingenuity and forward thinking, was it necessary to have an "old T6" and a "new T6"? There are a number of yet unused letters and digits. Sounds like iPhone marketing schemes all over again.

 

The boss of Geely, which owns VolvoCars, is Chinese. So, in turn, he is the indirect boss of Volvo though Samlusson is in charge of Volvo since Geely reportedly wants to be a "hands off" kind of owner and Volvo is the one with real engineering experience and brand heritage.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

I think the one mistake made at this point is the non availability of the Haldex AWD driveline.
Many customers think they need AWD and also a big engine mostly for drivability reasons. Now Volvo makes it appear like both will be exit.
What better way to let the customer experience a similar powered VEA AWD next to the outgoing 6 cylinder setup.

 

It is not a mistake not to offer AWD on the new Drive-E Engines for now. I find it quite peculiar that many people do not understand the huge investments that go into altering a drivetrain for an exciting model.

 

Why do people need to understand? Volvo wants to sell products. Volvo chose to go all 4 cylinder while currently offering 5 and 6 cylinder engine's some combined with AWD. As you can read on this forum there is great concern about the 4 cylinders. Some see status issues, others power issues. Some believe AWD is a necessity if only to even out the torque delivery to minimise torque steer behaviour.
The T5 AWD appears to do pretty well. The T6 AWD is Volvo's brand image for the US. Now when they want people to believe the 4 cylinder is as good as if not better than those configurations how could they leave the AWD out of the comparison? I think there should have been at least one Haldex (Conventional) AWD option available from the start to let those who are questioning see that Volvo is on the right path. Now they lost half of the target audience already and it will take years to get them back.
If Volvo doesn't want to invest they shouldn't be building cars.

Europe is different but even there Volvo lost many enthusiast who loved the 5 cylinder T5. In the Netherlands brand loyalty in non existent anymore.
7% or 14% is what sells. We have had the D2 FWD which has always been a 4 cylinder and now there's the D4 FWD which appears to be an extreme success but that car has been developed specifically for the Dutch tax regulated market. (A huge investment for a small market..) Europe accepts 4 cylinders. I don't have numbers but I wouldn't be surprised that a T6 hardly sells anymore. The new T6 can be seen as a proper successor for the good old T5 260 HP which has always been FWD so for Europe the need for AWD from the start isn't that big but to convince the US market I think this it is a big issue. A mistake or maybe a stupid move better said.

 

We have to be careful to compare apples to apples. People buy Audi's because .. they want an Audi, not because they want a 4cyl. Those brands that have achieved a certain status level are better able to deal with delivering less and charging more. Volvo is no where close to that status level.

In any event, given that, I am not worried at all about Volvo's 4 cyl only strategy except for maybe the XC90. The only part I don't like is the way Volvo has gone about it. I wouldn't have announced it to the world and the naming scheme is terrible. Even if deep down I was Volvo's owner and for some reason really wanted to be 4 cyl only company, I wouldn't have announced it. What would I gain? IMO, Volvo gains nothing by having announced it except to have closed doors. IMO, depending on how much it would have cost, Volvo should have developed and shown off a 5 or 6 cyl DriveE engine just for the heck of it so that people would have hope, just like Ford has Eco4 and Eco6. Electrification isn't cheap and extra power via electrification is going to be costly. KERS is still 6+ years away. Volvo could have shown off a 6cyl DriveE engine and never released it, but people would have had hope for it, and at least it would be ready if needed.

Sure, the industry has been moving to 4cyls, so Volvo goes and jumps off a cliff and for some reason states to the world, ok, we'll be 4 cyl only. Thankfully at least so far they appear to be very very good 4 cyls, problem is, because of the terrible naming scheme, people don't really find out about them. And people always want more, and I worry that while sales will improve, a 4 cyl only strategy is going to place a cap on how high they will go. Tesla may be doing well, but we'll have to see how long they keep doing well. Every single other brand that has electrified some part of their car has mostly failed, it's just too costly. IMO, people are buying Teslas for now because it's a status symbol and they can claim they are being 'green'. But there are two approaches to that, buying for status and 'green' regardless of cost and not caring how much each mile driven really costs AND buying to save money. Excluding Tesla, IMO, almost every other buyer is doing it to save money and being 'green' is just a side benefit to them. We have no clue how Volvo's electrification strategy is going to play out, but if I was forced to bet today, I'd have no choice but to bet it will fail simply because it's failed for basically everybody else save Tesla and the Prius. Sure, Volvo has announced some tricks like KERS but they are still a long ways off.

 

I believe most customers walking into a dealership are confused about any type of naming that the luxury car market does. This is not a new problem and just needs some education from the salesmen when they talk.
I think we will gain more people with a 4 cly engine from the group of people looking for more fuel efficiency.

I think Volvo as a company gains credit from the V8 or large engine group, once the reviews come out from the larger magazines and writers. The XC90 reviews and the drive E engines will get people to look if they ever were going to. Also think how many of those V8 people were ever looking at Volvo as a company. We can get some of them with the power and design difference. Not all.. then again there are some customers you never really want.

 

^Mine's 34". Not so different you and I, a?

 

Widely reported that AMG is testing 4 cylinders in the C and E class;
http://www.imotortimes.com/amg-4-cy...linder-turbo-engines-larger-mercedes-benz-sedans-c45-e45-amg-works-report-30228

I'm surprised to read so much pushback on the 4 cylinder strategy, it's seems to me that the entire industry is downsizing engines. AMG is testing them, V8 loving Americans are now buying turbo V6 f-150s in huge numbers, the 3 cylinder i8 has just been released to very strong reviews, the 100k Tesla model S is a huge success, the hybrid 8 cylinder McLaren P1 is sold out ($1.1 million car with only a V8) and the list goes on with successful engine downsizing and hybrid drives. As Grecian has pointed out, 4 cylinder models from other luxury brands are some of the best selling models and their success is showing customers that they don't need bigger engines to have a fun car. I bought my 250 hp turbo 4 9-5 Areo 10 years ago over a 6 cylinder 3 series or a 5 cylinder Volvo because it was plenty of fun and more efficient, I was more impressed with what Saab did with less. Gas prices are climbing back up, I just filled my car for $70, and efficiency is a huge concern for me but I don't want to buy a Prius, I want a car with a bit more luxury. I'm not sure how many other like minded buyers are out there but I know one bragging point for me will be how much power I get with high mileage.

 

Concur



Count me in as like minded, including the part about Saab! Long ago, I was V8 loving..'56 Ford, '57 Chevy, '61 Chevy, '61 Corvette, CORV-8, '67 Mustang (by Marriage). But as an engineer, I became more concerned about efficiency, so we have had only 4 cylinder cars for the last few decades, including Hondas, Acuras, and 4 Saabs: 2 9000turbos ('93 and '97), a '94 9000 Aero and our current '04 9-5 Aero, which our son will inherit once our 4-cylinder DRIVE-E T6 Volvo arrives. I am pleased to see that the auto industry, and even F1 as I mentioned in an earlier post, is coming around.

 

Higher power and higher efficiency 4 cylinders are great as long as they can hold up in the long run. These VEA engines may well do that but we wont know for sure until they get there.

I'll just assume for now that they can hold up...it would still be nice to just have more options. For me this debate is not a V8 vs. I4 that some are making it out to be. It's about having a choice. We are going from having the choice between a I4, I5, I6 and a V8 and in multiple incarnations, to just two different versions of an I4. Maybe before there were too many options for Volvo to be able to keep production costs under control but now they've gone in the opposite direction. I feel like they' are telling me, "NO SOUP FOR YOU!"

I would love just a few more engine options. Ideally at least an I4, I5 and I6 if not a V8. But I could totally live without the V8 Volvo as it is kind of a novelty albeit a very cool one. But even if they just offered us the option of an I4 and I6, or an I4 and I5.

Theoretically based on the new I4 T5 numbers, an I5 would generate over 312 HP!

An I5 with turbo plus supercharger, if possible would generate around 377 HP!!!

And and I6 with both configurations should be somewhere around 375HP w/turbo and around 450 HP with the turbo + supercharger.

Now I know that a lot of those engines would be redundant, those were just hypothetical to show what else might be possible with those pesky additional cylinders. Even just an engine with just one of those configurations as an addition to the current line up would be nice.

There's nothing wrong with having options! It certainly will attract more buyers. No one ever didn't buy a car because a brand offered exactly what the buyer wanted.

 

I'll just assume for now that they can hold up...it would still be nice to just have more options. For me this debate is not a V8 vs. I4 that some are making it out to be. It's about having a choice. We are going from having the choice between a I4, I5, I6 and a V8 and in multiple incarnations, to just two different versions of an I4. Maybe before there were too many options for Volvo to be able to keep production costs under control but now they've gone in the opposite direction.

+1 BINGO! Especially since Volvo has aspirations to be a premium brand...

People keep bringing up Mercedes going to 4 cylinders. Anybody stop to notice that these are going in the LOWER END, LESS EXPENSIVE CARS? The high line models are still getting the multiple cylinder engines.

 

The only reason Volvo "needs" to offer engine choice is for those of us who want a choice when Volvo makes a bad choice. For example, when I bought my xc90, you could buy a 6 that had "issues" and a 5 that had no issues. I bought the 5. Everyone who bought the 6 ended up unhappy.

What does a Volvo buyer do if the 4 "has problems"?

Volvo is puting a lot of eggs in that basket, and I hope they pull it off.

I think engine size matters little to 90% of the buyers. And engine size matters not at all to probably 50% of the buyers.

and at least half the people who "care" will be happy with the performance of the 4 (+ turbo, + super, and/or + hybrid)

That leaves less than 10%, most likely, who will care at all (provided, Volvo pulls off the feat. These numbers change dramatically if the engine plan is poorly implemented, of course.)

 

Good post. I remember those early 90 issues. They were bad enough that my mom didn't buy one, held off a few years and bought a lexus.

Very good post.

 

All other things being equal, in an internal combustion engine adding another cylinder will only give you more power no matter the past, current or future technology.

 

There is no such thing as "all things being equal". The movement of the industry is to reduce size in order to gain an upper hand in the weight of the engine/car, emissions and fuel economy. Adding size will not help in any of these categories. The challenge is to produce enough power so as not to sacrifice the driving experience or add a feeling we are driving "lawn mower" engines.

 

^This is all under the assumption that these high output I4s will even be able to last. This has yet to be determined regardless of testing.

My point in my previous post is irrefutable. Maybe you didn't understand what I was trying to convey? Given the same engine architecture, adding a cylinder will always yield more power. In other words, x+1>x.

An I5 or an I6 is still smaller than a V8. My point is in order to be competitive in the premium market Volvo wishes to be in they may have to provide more engine options than they currently have.

I for one would have to think long and hard and look at any viable competition before spending the kind of money they want for the VEA cars. In the past buying a Volvo has always been a no brainer for me.

Just give me an I5 or I6 to choose from and I'm sold. FWIW I'd probably go I5.

 

^This is all under the assumption that these high output I4s will even be able to last. This has yet to be determined regardless of testing.

My point in my previous post is irrefutable. Maybe you didn't understand what I was trying to convey? Given the same engine architecture, adding a cylinder will always yield more power. In other words, x+1>x.

An I5 or an I6 is still smaller than a V8. My point is in order to be competitive in the premium market Volvo wishes to be in they may have to provide more engine options than they currently have.

I for one would have to think long and hard and look at any viable competition before spending the kind of money they want for the VEA cars. In the past buying a Volvo has always been a no brainer for me.

Just give me an I5 or I6 to choose from and I'm sold. FWIW I'd probably go I5.

but isn't the logical extension of that argument that ANY larger engine is better than any smaller engine, which we know is not true - why would offering an inefficient 12 cylinder make any sense for Volvo?

I agree that we need to understand the reliability of the new engines, but that doesn't mean that it is in any way "better" for Volvo to give us engine "choice" if the alternate engine is a bag of junk. They are putting a lot of eggs in this basket. I am willing to bet they are right. But I'll still wait to see what kinds of issues the new engines have.

I'll let the people who buy cars without driving them buy the first 50,000 units before I dive into the pool. But I'm like that pretty much across the board, so....

- - -

How many cylinders in a Tesla?

How many cylinders in the Lexus sport hybrid sedan? 6? Why didn't they opt for 8? or 10 or 12?? Clearly they thought they'd get more drivers with the 6 cylinder than if they dropped in an 8 or 10 or 12......

So why do folks have a hang-up about the 4 cylinder? Why aren't those same people screaming/whining that we all need 12 cylinders?

I submit that the arguments are not rational, and are PURELY based on each writer's low self-worth. Cylinder-envy, in other words.

I guess I do feel bad for the guys who really DO want 12 cyclinders. or 16., etc. The world should give all of us what we want, albeit at a price. Perhaps we all have less freedom when car companies stop offering 12 cyclinder engines. I guess I struggle to understand the thought process of someone who thinks that way.

It's like the guys who think they have more "liberty" driving a petroleum-fuled car than an electricity-fuled one. Like these guys have some magical gasoline tree in the backyard. As if the gasoline supply isn't just as fragile as the electiricy supply. What's the real difference, to your liberty, between e-powered and gas-powered? 300 miles? Yippee!![??]

(PERHAPS you have a touch MORE freedom if you go electric AND have a direct charging system from the sun (your roof) to your car (and not through the grid).)

 

I think that most of you forget that Volvo is a european based company selling barely 15% of its production to the US market. 65 000 cars/year.
In the rest of the world the galon cost between 8 to 10USD and cars are heavily taxed on CO2 emissions.

Either the brand invest in a large displacement engine to pleased a thousand of americans buyers either the brand invests in low emissions tech which can pleased hundred of thousand.

a 400 hp V8 in europe? 10 usd /gallon, 10 000 to 100 000 USD to register the car and some thousand of USD of annual fees.
a 400 hp 4cyls hybrid? the buyer gets access to some taxe credits...

...and some americans might be tempted by it.

 

Here we go with the V8 vs. I4 argument again, that's not what I'm debating. How about an I5? How about anything other than just an I4?

I haven't forgotten about Volvo's EU customers, it just doesn't concern me much. Volvo is always saying how important the American market is to them, their words... There are more potential customers in North America than in many European countries combined.

 

The I4 decision IS about American customers. Volvo can't meet it's cafe target without downsizing engines. (Seriously, even with only 2.5-3.0 L engines, they didn't last year.) The fact that they decided to start with a clean slate and come up with a more fuel efficient AND more powerful engine, IMO, is very commendable.

 

This is not that complicated, but people seem to feel a need to simply stick to their guns. This is not a case of Goldilocks and the Three Bears. This has nothi8ng to do with what one person wants, what one person likes. I deon't care if YOU thinkj YOU know how many cylinders is "judt right." The market PROVES that consumers are very flexible No one is screaming for an 8 cylinder Lexus sport hybrid. 6 seems to be more than adequate for a LOT of customers.

Tesla proves you don't need ANY cylinders to sell cars. The Lexus proves you don't need 8, 10 or 12. Why is ">4" a "magic" number for you? Your prejudice toward >4 simply shows that you have a prejudice. It doesn't show that you are any more right than the next guy.

I understand wanting flexibility because you don't trust a manufacturer to get an engine right so you want to have a choice. Choice is good, I agree. But there is NO evidence that a choice of 4 and 6 is "better" than a choice of 4 or 3, for example.

 

"NO but it is liberating to be able to choose to drive what you want?"

It is an illusion that you choose to drive what you want. You choose to drive among a selection of vehicles that OTHER PEOPLE have decided that you may want. You are not designing cars. You are not determining what you want and then buying it. Your "liberty" is VERY constrained, and is an illusion. You can have any car you want, as long as it's black, right? If you want an electric car, today you have a very small choice. A few years ago you had NO choice, even though you may have wanted to drive electric.

and it has ALWAYS been this way

Having a choice between a poke in the eye or a punch in the nose is not a definition of "liberty"

you will drive a 4 cylinder and like it

or not

your "choice"

same as it ever was

 

http://www.worldcarfans.com/114051275139/bmw-m3--m4-could-be-offered-with-a-four-cylinder-engine

Even Bmw consider to use four-cylinder engine in new M3/M4.

 

The horror, the horror!

 

Sounds like pure speculation at this point but of course anything's possible.

Not really a concern either way. I've never been the BMW type.

 

But it is interesting that they don't complain about this news.

 

I'd wait to see how the BMW fanboys react to this on their own forums.

And it is speculation.

Imagine a corvette going 4 cylinder...