Rotate. My Contis in the front are badly feathered and noisy. Front drive biased AWD cars with high horse power are prone to more wear in the front. So the answer is yes rotate often.

 

Abnormal tire wear like feathering and cupping can be due to wheel imbalance rather than tire location or alignment.

 

Definetly rotate. Our Contis ended up cupped and very loud from not rotating.

 

The tire manufacturer warranties I am familiar with require that rotation be completed on schedule as prescribed.
Regardless, front and rear tire wear is different, unless of course you drive in a straight line all the time. Common sense would suggest regular rotation will provide benefits.
If you do it yourself, it will burn calories. That will allow you to drink more beer without adding bulk, win, win.
If you have it done by a dealer, it is often offered as a free service, take advantage.

 

The car is still front biased so not rotating will result in much faster wear on your front tires.

That said, there is apparently a TSB telling dealers not to rotate due to potential for road noise and related issues. So be prepared for that.

My fronts are shot as a result of listening to my dealer on that so in the future I will buy tires at Discount and just have them rotate regularly. The dealers have lousy tire selections anyway.

 

Take a look at your tires. If your fronts are more than 3mm more worn than the rears than they should be rotated. Despite being AWD, most of the weight is over the front wheels resulting in more wear on the front tires. I just had my tires rotated at 6,000 miles, but I am on a different schedule as I have much softer tires.

 

Rotate. Not sure about non-RD cars, but mine lifts both front and rear wheel when I jack up the front, so I just change the entire side in one go. That's not to say that I will be responsible for any damage if you do the same and things don't go well. The way we drive, I rotate every time I swap summer and winter sets, so it works out every 7.5k or so for summer and 5k and change for winter... There was noticeable difference in fronts and rears both times. Observe that because I swap wheel sets, I never have two wheels off at the same time...

 

I recently took off my winter tires and wheels after about 7K. As noted, the fronts wear much faster, and they should be rotated. Watch the tire pressure (you might have to go up a few pounds if the centers wear faster, and down a few if the edges wear faster) to maximize tire life. And when you get tires mounted, make sure you have it done at a shop with a Hunter Road Force balancer.

 

I would have dealer do it @ the 10k service.. So I would hope they would have the proper equipment..

 

This thread has notes from the TSB on why not to rotate:

http://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...5-Volvo-does-not-recommend-rotating-your-tires&p=1593917&viewfull=1#post1593917

I rotate if the labor is free. Actually, last time I had it done it was free (America's Tire)
but cost me an hour of my time. So I'm thinking that it is not worth it. So I'll revise
to say I will rotate if the car is in for some other service. The amount of tread life rotation
adds is probably not as valuable as the cost in labor if you have to pay for it (or your
time if a special trip is needed).

 

like above posters, car is FWD biased rotation is needed also its easy,

my g37s was wearing out the rear tires fast and you cannot rotate them.

 

I "rotate" when I swap winter/summer tires. Basically I always put the tires with more tread on the FRONT (not back, as my previous typo indicated) because the fronts wear faster due to braking and cornering (suspension setup for understeer) putting more load on the fronts.

 

I "rotate" when I swap winter/summer tires. Basically I always put the tires with more tread on the back because the fronts wear faster due to braking and cornering (suspension setup for understeer) putting more load on the fronts.

Why would you put you fresher tires on the rear? They should go on the front to even out the wear, plus to get the best performance. I did see Volvo's TSB of not rotating to leave fresher tires on the rear to prevent oversteer, but it is really one of the dumbest things I have ever read.

 

Occasionally I've come across discussions online where the thought is AWD systems can be damaged by tires with slight differences in diameter - presumably by replacing only two sets tires rather than all four at the same time. (e.g. http://volvoforums.com/forum/volvo-s60-v60-10/awd-tire-replacement-38813/)

Does this sentiment no longer hold true for the newer model Volvo AWD systems?

 

How do different tire sizes or dimensions affect the Haldex coupling? The Haldex coupling's mission is to reduce the slip (i.e. the difference in rotational speed) between the front and rear axles. Some slip is always present. It could come from driving in a curve (in which case the wheels have different paths and thus rotate with different speeds), from driving forces being applied differently on the different wheels, from a tire losing its grip and starting to spin, or from different tire sizes. The control strategy in the Haldex coupling accounts for those differences and applies the correct torque level so that the slip can be reduced to an appropriate level. Too large a difference in tire sizes could be harmful to the coupling hardware and could also affect vehicle drivability in a negative way. In those cases, the coupling will open and no longer transfer torque to the rear axle.

Source: https://www.borgwarner.com/en/Haldex-AWD/Pages/FAQ.aspx

So you shouldn't be able to do any damage to the AWD system, but it may disengage if there's too much of a difference.

I've previously seen people saying 4% is the maximum difference in diameter Haldex can handle. If that's accurate, you really shouldn't need to worry about differences in tire wear.

Total height of a some wheel and tire configurations used on these cars...

235/40 R 18 ... about 645mm
235/45 R 18 ... about 668mm
235/40 R 19 ... about 670mm

Even if we use the smallest one, the 235/40 R 18, 4% of the total height would be over 25mm. Even if it can only handle a 4% difference in the radius, that would be 12.9mm. So unless you're using some crazy tires with original tread depth of more than 12.9mm, you should never have to worry about this. For reference, the original tread depth of the Pirelli's on my car was 8mm.

Keeping your tires properly and evenly inflated will help, too.

We bubbled a tire at 25,000 miles and were told by a dealer that as long as the other side is 6/32 or more its fine. I believe them because I didnt know (the internet and tire shops have vastly different opinions) and they could have sold me 2 without me questioning it. We ran it like that for 20,000 more miles with no problems.

 

How do different tire sizes or dimensions affect the Haldex coupling? The Haldex coupling's mission is to reduce the slip (i.e. the difference in rotational speed) between the front and rear axles. Some slip is always present. It could come from driving in a curve (in which case the wheels have different paths and thus rotate with different speeds), from driving forces being applied differently on the different wheels, from a tire losing its grip and starting to spin, or from different tire sizes. The control strategy in the Haldex coupling accounts for those differences and applies the correct torque level so that the slip can be reduced to an appropriate level. Too large a difference in tire sizes could be harmful to the coupling hardware and could also affect vehicle drivability in a negative way. In those cases, the coupling will open and no longer transfer torque to the rear axle.

Source: https://www.borgwarner.com/en/Haldex-AWD/Pages/FAQ.aspx

So you shouldn't be able to do any damage to the AWD system, but it may disengage if there's too much of a difference.

I've previously seen people saying 4% is the maximum difference in diameter Haldex can handle. If that's accurate, you really shouldn't need to worry about differences in tire wear.

Total height of a some wheel and tire configurations used on these cars...

235/40 R 18 ... about 645mm
235/45 R 18 ... about 668mm
235/40 R 19 ... about 670mm

Even if we use the smallest one, the 235/40 R 18, 4% of the total height would be over 25mm. Even if it can only handle a 4% difference in the radius, that would be 12.9mm. So unless you're using some crazy tires with original tread depth of more than 12.9mm, you should never have to worry about this. For reference, the original tread depth of the Pirelli's on my car was 8mm.

Keeping your tires properly and evenly inflated will help, too.

 

I decided not to rotate the tires. I agree with KRN and also with Volvo's TSB, honestly.

If I have the dealer do it, it will cost me more money than it's worth.

If I have someone else do it or do it myself, it will cost me more time than it's worth to me.

If I keep the same make and model tire, I'll probably just move the rears up front and put the new tires in the back and go on with my life. In actuality, I'll probably go with the EcoPlus tires next time and will probably change all four at that point.

 

It's a front wheel drive biased car. Not rotating regularly will lead to cupping/feathering on the rears. So you may just have worn out tires on the front and useless tires on the back (unless you have them shaved) by 15K miles. My preference would be to have them rotated every 5K miles though tire rack recommends every 3-5K and the Pirelli waranty states that you have to rotate every 3-4K miles to qualify for a claim. I currently have good evenly worn tires at 24K miles rotating regularly (5-7.5K). My dealer charges me $20 for the job.

 

3-4k seems excessive. Even the warranty on the Michelin PSS, which are super soft only require every 6-8k. My dealer charges $32, but it's worth it when a set of tires is $1,200 and I'm trying to get as much performance and life out of them as possible.

 

With 10k on the car, I've rotated twice already. I like to rotate the tires every 5k. Although not part of the 10k service, Tasca rotated them at my request for n/c.

 

I've had good luck with 10k tire rotation intervals. I'm at 47k miles and just did my last rotation for these tires. Only 1/32 difference between front and back.

 

So what is the consensus for this? My Volvo dealer tells me not to rotate as it doesn't make a difference with AWD.

 

Look at your tires. If your front tires are more than 3mm more worn than your rears, a rotation will help balance out the wear and prolong the life of them. If the wear seems even, skip the rotation.

 

I think that if you have a badly mismatched set then for the average driver in average conditions putting the better pair in the rear may be a better alternative to watching that driver fail to correct for oversteer that one time and put it in a ditch. (Some would argue that if the mismatch is that bad then at least two of those tires should be replaced.) Personally I prefer to rotate front-to-back at short enough intervals to maintain even tread at both ends of the car and avoid the issue entirely. As far as AWD is concerned I understand that today's Haldex systems can cope with a bit of mismatch in tire diameter, but why force it to do so? Just because one doesn't absolutely have to do something doesn't mean it isn't a good idea. Since rotation is an easy DIY it's also a good opportunity to look the tires over thoroughly for odd wear and other signs of trouble that you might not notice while they're on the car.

 

With awd I would say yes, every 10,000 mi.

 

That is so arbitrary without knowing what tires someone has. The tire compound is much more relevant than AWD with regards to when to rotate. I just had to rotate mine at 6,000 because they are a soft compound. A harder compound could go longer, but 10,000 is pretty long. Pirelli requires 3,000-5,000 miles for their tread life warranty and Michelin 6.000-8000 miles.

 

I think generally people do it when they have their oil changed....which is 10,000 miles. If you see something is wearing irregularly before your next service, then consider having them rotated earlier or checking alignment. This is common sense.

 

Thought I'd double check on my C30 user manual... Here is the advice from the car manufacturer...

Summer and winter tires
• When switching between summer and winter tires, mark the tires to indicate where they were mounted on the car, e.g., LF = left front, RR = right rear
•Tires with tread designed to roll in only one direction are marked with an arrow on the sidewall.
•Incorrectly mounted tires impair the car's braking properties and ability to force aside rain, snow and slush.
•The tires with the most tread should always be at the rear (to reduce the risk of skid-ding).
• Contact a Volvo workshop if you are unsure about the tread depth.

Tire rotation
Your vehicle has no recommended tire rotation. The following information is intended to help you understand why.

Tread set
As a tire ages and the rubber cures, front and rear tires set at different angles. Therefore, if tires are rotated, the tread will eventually set at an angle that is a compromise. Even if ride, handling, and road noise may still seem acceptable, they may not be optimal. Further, tires that are rotated, but not on a regular basis, may actually cause more tire noise, faster tire wear, and unpleasant changes in steering feel and vehicle handling.
A tire that can fully adapt to its position will provide better steering feel, lower tire noise, and better fuel economy.

Braking stability performance
Your vehicle is driven mainly by the front tires, which will wear faster. This can be beneficial. Having more tread on the rear tires will help reduce oversteer. Oversteer is when a vehicle wants to keep turning because of momentum and dynamic forces on its suspension.

Suspension wear diagnostics
Every suspension needs periodic inspection and maintenance. A tire's wear pattern can be an aid in detecting a suspension problem. Each tire, if left in place, tells a story about the suspension. Tire rotation, on the other hand, could make suspension wear harder to detect. Early detection is very important, because suspension problems can make tire wear worse.

If you do rotate your tires...
Please follow the tire manufacturer's recommendations, as outlined in the tire manufacturers tire warranty pamphlet

 

The C30 manual seems to say much more than the new V60's. Keep in mind that we are looking at a Volvo manual that errs on the side of safety in all situations for liability reasons. Our discussion wasn't about safety, it's about tire life and performance.

Tire manufacturers feel very different about the subject. If you want to maintain the treadwear warranty you need to rotate on their schedule. For Pirelli it's 3,000-5,000 miles for Michelin it's 6,000-8,000 miles.

Maybe I need to take myself out of this conversation because I tune Oversteer into my car with my suspension. I want the most grip possible in my front tires. I'm okay with the rear end slipping. I have a performance setup that most don't have so maybe I look at tires and things like this differently than some.

 

 

I'm out. You want to sit around and kick mud in the face of folks that have been here since the inception of this site, have at it You want to disregard the comments of current Volvo employees? have at it. You want to disregard the years and years of first hand experience of Volvo technicians and service advisors, have at it. But you don't disregard them....no, there is no polite back and forth. There is no conceding to just "agree to disagree".

No, it's all personal attacks. It's private messages with mean comments and foul language. It's punch you in the face, drag out fighting, lecturing on internet forum interaction. It's a "prove you wrong at all cost" contest....on a subjective opinion. It's every comment you make construed in the worst possible way and in the most impolite "tone" possible. If there is 95% fact laid out, and 5% opinion, then the 5% is believed over the 95% facts. Oh, you worked for Volvo? Oh you know Volvo management? Oh you have traveled the world for Volvo professional training? Oh you have been to the factory? Oh you have drive the test tract facility? Oh you helped Volvo instigate safety campaigns and product improvement programs? Oh you work with Volvo technicians that have been Volvo-exclusive techs for over 40 years? Oh........you must be a fanboy then and in know way could possibly have more insight and experience than the casual Volvo owners. How dare you suggest real life experience could mean perhaps one should consider your comments to carry a little more merit than a casual owner!!!

There is no winning here any more. Some of you just showed up a few months ago and ran veteran posters off and turned this site into something that isn't enjoyable or fun. You made this a place to fight about Volvos. How ridiculous. Am I the only one to notice all of the folks that have posted a few hundred times seem to have suddenly chased off all of the folks that have posted thousands of times? Even the Moderators are pissed off and don't interact here like they used to....they just are ganged up on at every possible time.

You don't like my attitude any more? Well guess what.....you are probably the one that mercislessly beat me up and sent those private, foul-languaged private messages to me that changed my attitude. Yep, my attitude changed all right. And you have the guts to tell me that it's my fault? Trying to tell someone they praise at work for exceptional customer interaction needs to learn better interaction etiquette is just enough to make me leave here. I'm not concerned with a snarky comment or two towards some of you foul-mouthed idiots, and it certainly doesn't mean I need better etiquette.

Congratulations. The jack asses win again! Another long-time poster has been chased away. I'll have to find a new hobby, as bickering about Vovlo's is certainly not my cup of tea, nor sorting through private messages from posters on this thread with four-letter-word hate mail. I'm sure you don't care to see me go, but perhaps you might consider what will happen to this site in a few more months if something doesn't change. If you chase away everyone, who will you berate next?

I'm officially out.

 

I'm out. You want to sit around and kick mud in the face of folks that have been here since the inception of this site, have at it You want to disregard the comments of current Volvo employees? have at it. You want to disregard the years and years of first hand experience of Volvo technicians and service advisors, have at it. But you don't disregard them....no, there is no polite back and forth. There is no conceding to just "agree to disagree".

No, it's all personal attacks. It's private messages with mean comments and foul language. It's punch you in the face, drag out fighting, lecturing on internet forum interaction. It's a "prove you wrong at all cost" contest....on a subjective opinion. It's every comment you make construed in the worst possible way and in the most impolite "tone" possible. If there is 95% fact laid out, and 5% opinion, then the 5% is believed over the 95% facts. Oh, you worked for Volvo? Oh you know Volvo management? Oh you have traveled the world for Volvo professional training? Oh you have been to the factory? Oh you have drive the test tract facility? Oh you helped Volvo instigate safety campaigns and product improvement programs? Oh you work with Volvo technicians that have been Volvo-exclusive techs for over 40 years? Oh........you must be a fanboy then and in know way could possibly have more insight and experience than the casual Volvo owners. How dare you suggest real life experience could mean perhaps one should consider your comments to carry a little more merit than a casual owner!!!

There is no winning here any more. Some of you just showed up a few months ago and ran veteran posters off and turned this site into something that isn't enjoyable or fun. You made this a place to fight about Volvos. How ridiculous. Am I the only one to notice all of the folks that have posted a few hundred times seem to have suddenly chased off all of the folks that have posted thousands of times? Even the Moderators are pissed off and don't interact here like they used to....they just are ganged up on at every possible time.

You don't like my attitude any more? Well guess what.....you are probably the one that mercislessly beat me up and sent those private, foul-languaged private messages to me that changed my attitude. Yep, my attitude changed all right. And you have the guts to tell me that it's my fault? Trying to tell someone they praise at work for exceptional customer interaction needs to learn better interaction etiquette is just enough to make me leave here. I'm not concerned with a snarky comment or two towards some of you foul-mouthed idiots, and it certainly doesn't mean I need better etiquette.

Congratulations. The jack asses win again! Another long-time poster has been chased away. I'll have to find a new hobby, as bickering about Vovlo's is certainly not my cup of tea, nor sorting through private messages from posters on this thread with four-letter-word hate mail. I'm sure you don't care to see me go, but perhaps you might consider what will happen to this site in a few more months if something doesn't change. If you chase away everyone, who will you berate next?

I'm officially out.

Goodbye if that is what you really want(you've threatened it multiple times already) but it's not what anyone asked for. If you haven't noticed, everyone is getting along except you. We all disagree on things, but we get over it and don't continue to bicker. You just sound like a whining baby. Why is it that everyone else can have a discussion without getting into name calling our bickering but with you it gets to that? As tarrbot said, time to look at yourself. How long ago you joined this site has zero bearing on the conversation of how you treat people.

 

/Thread closed? Oh wait I cant do that.. :/