Volvo S60 T6.

Volvo seats are way better than Subie.

 

Consumer Reports is for sh!te. Do a google search for "Subaru CVT" and realize that every one ever has failed. But Consumer Reports seems to ignore that little fact. I leased a 2014 Outback where the CVT died at 40k, the car was in the shop for a month, then I returned it and swore, I would never ever own another.

 

The Volvo will feel much more like your 328. They are also available in all wheel drive.

 

Subaru mike drop... LOL you know you asking this in a Volvo forum right? If we thought Subaru or other car is better for our use we would buy it and go to that forum.

Both great cars drive them both see what you like then make a decision.

Good luck

 

The market thinks they need SUVs.. so pre owned sedans don't hold their value as well. Luxury always drops more than economy. Also, CR never considers rebates in their depreciation figures. I don't know what Subaru rebates are, but I'll be Volvo's are higher. It looks like in lieu of rebates they're just giving a lower interest rate, but it's hard to tell on websites what real prices are sometimes. You can get S60 with AWD, so that's not really a factor. You can get a CPO AWD S60 with 316 hp, Polestar up to 330hp and have a great car with a warranty extendable out to 10 years of vehicle life, unlimited miles, for far less than a new one of either. Once you drive it for a week, a brand new car, and low mile CPO feel the same other than the lower payments and better warranty with CPO.

CR is trash, has been for decades. It should be called editor's perceptions. I lost all confidence in them back when the Pontiac Vibe came out and they gave it crap reliability and gave the identical Toyota Matrix great reliability. They way they weight issues is astounding. I've seen it time and time again, they'll knock out a vehicle for a single feature (usually technology and sometimes an option as in the case of Ford SYNC when it was launched!) when the rest of the car is better than the competition. Not that a Subaru won't cost less to care for, but CR isn't an unbiased source. I wouldn't want to own any car outside of warranty these days unless it was a pure beater you could fix on the side as time allows.

As for any brand vs any luxury brand, you can check all the boxes for features, it doesn't mean they were carried out as well. You will always be able to brag that you got all the features and saved so much money, but there is a profound difference, and a reason people who can afford it buy a nicer car (and it's not like our badge lights up as some lux brand do for image...). Volvo is currently a great blend of excellent execution without the image of someone who pays to much for a nice vehicle. It's a successful professional image IMO. You want an excellent driving experience without tagging along with the crowd, and you don't spend time justifying (to yourself or others) what you got just because it was a "better deal".

I personally have never driven a CVT that didn't feel horrible. That's pure personal opinion, but I hate them. It's hard enough for me to accept proper automatics though.

Premium fuel doesn't cost all that much more out of someones budget. I did the math for myself and it came to like $6 a week with 12k a year driving. I spent $8 on breakfast this morning.

But both Subaru and Volvo do share a lot of values regarding safety and environmental impact concerns. Many garages are shared. But coming from a luxury car, I think you'd be very disappointed in the execution of features on a Subaru. Life is too short to pretend to be practical (as a premium Subaru is as unnecessary as any luxury car is, just not as nice).

 

The market thinks they need SUVs.. so pre owned sedans don't hold their value as well. Luxury always drops more than economy.

Subaru are a mainstream vehicle, and thereby, holds its value better. And Volvo being "Near Luxury" - Example: https://www.hurdautomall.com/autoCheckReport.do?vin=7JR102FM2KG012348&cs:rv=D050F6DEE5F729234E645AE5D97910CE Loses value quicker like any luxury brand.

Buying New vs. CPO comes down to price + preference. Some people want to be the first to break in a car and other's don't mind a few thousand miles. Given the choice, I would ignore consumer reports and get a Volvo. Sure the resale value and maintenance cost on a Subaru will be better and lower. However, Volvo prides itself on Safety. And I still firmly believe, Volvo's Premium Price is because they're not cutting corners where it matters. Making it more likely one walks away unharmed from a wreck.

If op can afford a Volvo, go Volvo. I won't weigh in on the value of extended warranties, but as you mentioned, Volvo does offer 10 year / unlimited miles (exclusion oil consumption) for around $3k. Price wise, that's not bad considering how expensive Volvos can be to repair.

 

Thanks much......I am thinking I will bite the bullet, spend a little more and go for the Volvo, but will probably opt for the extended warranty. In the end, it is a more professional image than a Subaru and I like its quirky look. Plus we already have a Subaru Forrestor, so....why not go for it.

 

Thanks much for the opinions, especially to Volvo Sales Guy. Of course I get you sell Volvo's but you are right...life is too short..why compromise.

 

I wish it were that easy to convince folks in the showroom! =-D

 

There is always this thing called money and budget.

Krzyś

 

Exactly this below. After years of Saabs, I tried a Mazda that had all of the same features after Saab went bankrupt. Sure the Mazda had leather seats, but the sides were fabric and you touched it each time you used the seatbelt. They both had heated seats, but you only felt them in the Saab. The dual exhaust tips on the Mazda were untreated and turned black in the first week of ownership. There was a huge difference between the quality of said features. I wound up selling the Mazda in less than 2 years for our first S60 and probably lost the money I saved not getting a European or Luxury car initially on the depreciation.

The premium fuel cost is counterbalanced by the free maintenance included on the Volvo. In the end, the difference in ownership costs over the next five years is probably $5,000 or less. If you think it's worth it for the nicer ride, go for the S60. If cars aren't important for you, get the Legacy and save the money for something you prefer. However, if you own a 3-series and are considering the top of the line Subaru, I think you'd prefer the nicer ride. Good luck with whatever you choose.

As for any brand vs any luxury brand, you can check all the boxes for features, it doesn't mean they were carried out as well. You will always be able to brag that you got all the features and saved so much money, but there is a profound difference, and a reason people who can afford it buy a nicer car (and it's not like our badge lights up as some lux brand do for image...). Volvo is currently a great blend of excellent execution without the image of someone who pays to much for a nice vehicle. It's a successful professional image IMO. You want an excellent driving experience without tagging along with the crowd, and you don't spend time justifying (to yourself or others) what you got just because it was a "better deal".

Premium fuel doesn't cost all that much more out of someones budget. I did the math for myself and it came to like $6 a week with 12k a year driving. I spent $8 on breakfast this morning.

But both Subaru and Volvo do share a lot of values regarding safety and environmental impact concerns. Many garages are shared. But coming from a luxury car, I think you'd be very disappointed in the execution of features on a Subaru. Life is too short to pretend to be practical (as a premium Subaru is as unnecessary as any luxury car is, just not as nice).[/QUOTE]

 

Having driven the Subaru XT and owned a 2015 BMW 328 I speak from decent experience to your specific situation.
The Subaru is garbage. It lacks refinement. The Volvo is nothing but refined. However, the power delivery is vastly different from the BMW. The BMW 328 is aggressive in its power delivery while the Volvo does the same job without all the fuss.

 

I am down to two choices. The Subaru Legacy Touring XT which has a Turbo 260 HP vs. the Volvo S60 Momentum or R. Design, turbo 250 HP. I have not been able to find a dealer with the XT on the lot so not sure exactly how they drive, but I want the upgraded features and the engine with more HP. I liked my test drive in the Volvo, luxurious seats, but it is front wheel drive, and Volvo loses value like a rock whereas the Subaru accepts unleaded gas, holds its value and is four wheel drive. And the Subaru Touring XT is about 5 K cheaper than the Volvo.

Any opinions from those who have owned or driven Volvos vs. the Subaru XT? I don't want to give up on the Volvo for the sake of a few thousand dollars if it is the better driving vehicle.

FWIW, Consumer reports ranks the Subaru as a Mid level Sedan at the top of the list. The volvo as an entry level mid sized Luxury car. But, not only does the Volvo have poor resale values, it also is below average reliability...so I love the idea of driving a Volvo (it will replace my 328i), but I am also thinking in practical terms.

Opinions?

Going to steal an analogy from Mad Men.

Subarus are great if you are going somewhere. Volvos are for when you've already arrived.

 

Well based on the advice here, I just bought the S60 R model, with the technology package, about 42K, down from the list of about 48K. Only 5K more than the top of the line Subaru XT Touring I was thinking about. I don't have the four wheel drive, but living in Florida I can live with the Front Wheel drive, and we have the Subaru Forester for when we go into the mountains. I am glad I did not compromise, I plan on keeping this car for a long time. Will likely buy a third party extended warranty as I get close to the four year expiration on the manufacturers warranty. Thanks for the advice.

 

If you go to Steingold Volvo and use the code Swedespeed, you can save $200 or $250. Forget which. Also, the Volvo Warranties are backed by Fidelity. They are third party, but you're better off buying the "Volvo Branded Warranty" than from any other 3rd party company. Allowing the dealer to handle any repairs, and requests for approvals, since the plan is offered by Volvo.

https://vip.steingold.com/product/Volvo-VIP-Extended-Warranty-Service-Contract-Online-XC40-S60/83?cp=true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=false&category_id=6

 

Well I have changed my mind..I am still going Volvo, but for the T6 R design, AWD. According to the True purchases, they it shouldn't cost much more than the 42K I was going to pay for the T5 FW (which was probably a few thousand too much). They just have to find one for me.

 

thanks for the warranty info

 

YW

 

Awesome choice! I think if you are looking at the Subaru XT, sort of the "sporty" Legacy as much as they are doing sport in the Legacy these days (not much!), you are going to get all that and much more with the T6 R design. I'd say sport chassis FTW but either preference you are going to love it over the Subaru.

 

Congrats!! Enjoy the new ride.

 

Went home with a New TS5 today. I almost went with the R-design, but I just felt the seats on the Momentum were more comfortable. If I were younger, I definitely would have gone with the R-design.

First car I have ever leased. I decided since Volvo loses value so quickly, why buy a rapidly depreciating vehicle. If I had gone Subaru, I would have bought. In the end, if I buy out the lease at the end, the cost will be very close to what it would be if I had purchased from the beginning.

 

Leasing vs Buying is a numbers game.

Low Mileage Driver + Always Wanting New Car + Never Paying Service Visits + Don't Mind Paying down Depreciation for Care you Don't Own = Lease

Plan to Keep Car Long Term + Drive more than 12K miles / yr + Car Depreciates but Never hits "Zero" Meaning Retains Value = Buy

Lifestyle choice. Since leasing you're paying into something you don't own (unless you buy). Meaning Dealer makes out on Depreciation at your expense. Flip side is you get a new car ever 2-3 years and don't have to worry about maintenance expenses.

 

Congrats!

 

I'd like brown or maroon also, maybe grey. The lighter colors look good, but my family would kill them

 

Actually, grey is an option on R-design as of MY2020 - they call it "Slate". It's still pretty dark. "Amber" leather, while beautiful, is only available on Inscription AND with black headliner, which kinda defeats the purpose of lighting up the interior. Volvo used to offer bi-color upholstery options in the previous generation - Blond/Black, Hazel/Black. My wife's previous car was a 2015 XC60 in Power Blue metallic over Blond/Black - stunning car. Beechwood (orange) leather was also a pretty popular option that is no longer available. I bet even "City Weave" would be popular across all trims (sedan and wagon), but nope - V60 Momentum only. I just don't get it.

 

Amber with Black headliner and liner lime inlays is my favorite interior color combo. 2nd favorite is R-Design

 

Weighing a little late, but as someone who has owned several of each (Volvos and Subarus), given that you already have a Forester to get you into the woods, I think you made the right choice to buy the Volvo sedan. Both companies make good vehicles, but very different and the overall build quality of the Volvos I have owned is notably better than the Subarus. I do, however, wish Volvo would improve their headlights. I know that many Volvo owners say the headlights are fine, but the IIHS test results show that my 2020 Forester low beam throws 5 lux about 150' get further than the best S60 headlights. My next car replacement (a few years down the road) will be a sedan and as I age the headlights become more and more important. I would love to get back into some of those wonderful Volvo seats (just sold my V70 with 190K to my son), but seeing well at night is even more important.

 

Right, our Forester Limited is only six months old. My wife loves the car, but we decided why have two Subarus? For long distance driving, like up to the mountains in Tennessee, we will use the Subaru. For commuting, I will drive the Volvo. I always wanted to own a Volvo. It just has that little element of quirkiness and there are far fewer of them on the roads than BMWs, and besides, I have owned two BMWs. I had no choice but to get another car. My 2011 BMW with "only" 92 thousand miles, bought new, was leaking oil, needed a new radiator and hose belts, the engine light was on with the code indicating issues with the catalytic converter, and needed a brake job. My mechanic told me that he could try to fix the oil leak but he could not tell me how deep the problem. At the least I likely needed a new head gasket. I could barely get the car to the local dealer to trade it in. Given all the issues, they still gave me 4200 in trade in with my disclosing the problems, and I know it will need several thousand dollars of work at least, so I was happy.

 

I am down to two choices. The Subaru Legacy Touring XT which has a Turbo 260 HP vs. the Volvo S60 Momentum or R. Design, turbo 250 HP. I have not been able to find a dealer with the XT on the lot so not sure exactly how they drive, but I want the upgraded features and the engine with more HP. I liked my test drive in the Volvo, luxurious seats, but it is front wheel drive, and Volvo loses value like a rock whereas the Subaru accepts unleaded gas, holds its value and is four wheel drive. And the Subaru Touring XT is about 5 K cheaper than the Volvo.

Any opinions from those who have owned or driven Volvos vs. the Subaru XT? I don't want to give up on the Volvo for the sake of a few thousand dollars if it is the better driving vehicle.

FWIW, Consumer reports ranks the Subaru as a Mid level Sedan at the top of the list. The volvo as an entry level mid sized Luxury car. But, not only does the Volvo have poor resale values, it also is below average reliability...so I love the idea of driving a Volvo (it will replace my 328i), but I am also thinking in practical terms.

Opinions?

I was cross-shopping the newest Subaru Outback Touring XT with the V60 Cross-country (test drove both) and am coming from the previous generation Outback.

Advantages Subaru: More spacious inside, both for passengers and luggage, you can feel the difference; about 6k cheaper* similarly equipped; no need for premium gas; windows seemed larger; resale value

Advantages Volvo: Significantly better handling and driving experience; more comfortable seats; panoramic sunroof; much better speakers; safer; more beautiful inside and out

So you lose some space and money in exchange for an overall more pleasant driving experience in all facets (driving, comfort, entertainment, aesthetics) and improved safety (though both brands are very safe cars).

Volvo's Harmon-Kardon speakers are for some reason noticeably better than the ones in the Subaru, and Volvo allows an upgrade (for an extra $3000) to the Bowers and Wilkins speakers which are absolutely amazing.

I ended up putting the deposit down for the Volvo V60 for overseas delivery a couple of weeks ago. I ordered the Bowers and Wilkins speakers which brought my price up to $49k. Otherwise it would have been $46k vs. Outback XT TOuring's $39.6k. I plan on keeping this car until it dies so resale doesn't matter to me.

*With overseas delivery Volvo gives you plane tickets to Sweden, a night at a hotel, and insurance to drive your car around Europe for 2 weeks. Altogether it's worth about 4k. So this wipes out much, though not all, of the Subaru cost advantage.

Have you considered overseas delivery?

 

I was cross-shopping the newest Subaru Outback Touring XT with the V60 Cross-country (test drove both) and am coming from the previous generation Outback.

Advantages Subaru: More spacious inside, both for passengers and luggage, you can feel the difference; about 6k cheaper* similarly equipped; no need for premium gas; windows seemed larger; resale value

Advantages Volvo: Significantly better handling and driving experience; more comfortable seats; panoramic sunroof; much better speakers; safer; more beautiful inside and out

So you lose some space and money in exchange for an overall more pleasant driving experience in all facets (driving, comfort, entertainment, aesthetics) and improved safety (though both brands are very safe cars).

I agree with most of what you said, but why do you give the advantage to Volvo for safety? In the European safety tests, where they assign scores, not just categories, the current Outback has not been tested, but the current Forester outscores the current V60 in every category. And in the US IIHS testing the Forester headlights are better. I agree that both are very safe cars, and I am comfortable in term of safety with either one, but I don't think the data supports declaring an advantage for Volvo in safety - at least assuming that the current Outback is similar to the Forester with regard to safety.

 

I think ultimately, the lines between safety are beginning to blur. Most manufacturers are now putting safety as a forefront concern rather than a hindsight decision. So Volvo's leading edge of being the "safest" is diminished. However, Volvo has been "Very Safe" for a long time, and I trust my life in one without batting an eye.

 

Very true. CNBC agrees with you:

I was a bit surprised Volvo doesn't include blind spot monitoring, or rear cross traffic alert as standard on all models. I think new Mazda's and even new Hyundai's have these two safety systems as standard.

 

We wrestled with what to purchase to replace our 2019 S60 (which we liked a lot), but did not provide the higher driving position my wife desired. While our first choice without considering cost was the 2023 XC40 Recharge/XC40 ICE, my wife ranked the 2023 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 as her number one choice when cost was factored into the equation. Both vehicles have their advantages and disadvantages. Both do well in the IIHS ratings. And while we started out wanting a BEV, the bottom line was that it did not make sense to us from a financial standpoint at the point in our lives as we near retirement given the inflation, the lack of significant incentives and higher interest rates. As a result, we broadened our search and research to other models. With the equity from the S60, our monthly payment on the Outback is roughly 45 percent of what it would have been had we purchased a V60 Cross Country (which we also considered) and about half that of a Volvo XC40 Recharge.

 

cheap car is cheaper, more at 10, back to you bob. I mean they're entirely different classes of vehicles really, usually they're not cross shopped much. Hope you have a good powertrain warranty on the Subaru!

 

I've owned three Legacies. When I needed another, I moved to an S60 (largely guided by how impressed we are with my wife's XC60). A low mileage CPO S60 with all of the things I wanted (AWD, safety systems, more power, no CVT, extra warranty, etc) was less than the cost of a new Legacy Limited with all of the extras. To me, the S60 is a much nicer car, too.

Part of me felt a little guilty about buying such a "nice" car, but the reality is that it cost me less than what I would have spent on a new Legacy... At this point, I'm pretty sure I won't go back to Subaru (I've owned and enjoyed 5 of them).

 

I've owned three Legacies. When I needed another, I moved to an S60 (largely guided by how impressed we are with my wife's XC60). A low mileage CPO S60 with all of the things I wanted (AWD, safety systems, more power, no CVT, extra warranty, etc) was less than the cost of a new Legacy Limited with all of the extras. To me, the S60 is a much nicer car, too.

Part of me felt a little guilty about buying such a "nice" car, but the reality is that it cost me less than what I would have spent on a new Legacy... At this point, I'm pretty sure I won't go back to Subaru (I've owned and enjoyed 5 of them).

In 2020, when we bought our left over 2019 Volvo S60, the discount was $10K below MSRP. Unfortunately, we can’t say that today. The V60 Cross Country that I looked at online was in the low 50s before tags, tax and dealer processing. The Outback was $39,300 out the door - which was $500 below MSRP. Unfortunately, a new Cross Country was out of the question and used one or two year old low mileage units were few and far between at Volvo dealers and at the time, nonexistent in our neck of the woods.

I am not saying the S60 isn’t nice, because it is a very nice car - almost as nice as my V90. But for us, we could not justify the more than $10K difference (based upon advertised Internet asking price that was still discounted below MSRP). And, if money were no object, then a new Volvo would have carried the day.