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PROOF that the stock intake manifold is FLAWED

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13K views 76 replies 25 participants last post by  TheVolvoVibe  
#1 · (Edited)
Grab a beer and some popcorn and have fun reading :)
I highly suggest watching the 5-10 seconds videos I will link because it demonstrates a bit better and helps to understand the simulations a bit better.

Even tho I'm not super active on my build thread or on social media in general, my car has been running since September. I have touched, modified, optimized everything on the car. I do believe that some stuff can be done by hand/eye but some other do require proper work and simulations. I'll update more thoroughly my build thread when I have more time.

READ THE CONCLUSION OF MY FINDINGS AND WHAT IS MY HYPOTHESIS

The last piece of my puzzle is my intake manifold! After seeing how my exhaust manifold changed my car, intake manifold was inevitable.
Took some time to learn proper CAD work/design, bought myself all the equipment needed and here I am :)

KEEP IN MIND THAT THOSE ARE SIMULATIONS THAT ARE RAN INDEPENDETELY AND THAT REAL LIFE EFFECTS CAN'T BE REPRODUCED UNLESS I HAVE A TEAM OF ENGINEERS ON IT FOR A COUPLE WEEKS/MONTS

However, to see that the manifold on its own is that flawed just shows how much power is robbed from our platform, can you imagine how much more power we are actually losing after considering the turbo piping, the intercooler design, the silicone couplers, the heat, etc. I took the time to scan my OEM manifold, measure all the sizes, lengths, thicknesses, etc using a digital caliper. Here is the final 1:1 replica of the stock OEM manifold. FLANGE AND THROTTLE BODY ARE NOT USUALLY PLUGGED, IT IS DONE SO I CAN RUN THE SIMULATIONS AND HAVE EVERYTHING WATERTIGHT.

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ALL SIMULATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE USING AVERAGES OF REAL LIFE DATALOGGING FROM A 2006 M66 V70R
Mod list :
Car is in pristine condition and amazing maintenance done on it
Snabb full intercooler kit and piping
Snabb catless downpipe
Straight pipe exhaust
Snabb intake
Snabb airbox
Audi RS4/S4 MAF
One step colder spark plugs
Do88 Radiator
Hybrid K24 Turbo
950cc injectors
340LPH fuel pump

What I include are the visualization of the simulations but the real calculations take a long time and would take ages to compile. It is not rocket science but I do understand if people are not familiar with it so feel free to ask questions / details.

So here are my findings :

It's important to understand that it is not in every case, every condition and every runner that we see those differences. What I've done to simulate as close to real life conditions, I've used real dataloggings during WOT (wide open throttle) pulls. Outside temperatures were around 70-76*F (21-24*C) with little to no humidity.

- DENSITY wise, we can see an average drop/difference of 12% per runner (from plenum to runner x5). At max we can see a 21% difference in some cases and goes as low as 3% difference (only the 4th cylinder).
-Cyl 1 : Density becomes low just after the plenum for a short distance then becomes low again just before the head ports. Important to know that most of the density is seen on the walls of the runners and the inside/middle of it is very low/empty. In that runner we see an average of 8-9% difference from the whole length and width.
-Cyl 2 : Very close to what is happening in the Cyl 1 BUT we can see an even lower density at some times. Averaging a 10-11% difference from the whole length and width.
-Cyl 3 : This one is probably the most problematic and disturbing to see HOW BAD ITS CONDITIONS ARE....... (keep that in mind for the pressure and velocity simulations as well. We see an average drop/difference of 27%!! I don't even know what to say to that lol. Just imagine how much the car cuts on power or how more prone we are to knocking in those conditions.
-Cyl 4 : This runner is the least problematic and honestly very good in every single condition and simulation. It succeeds very well when it comes to density, velocity and pressure simulations. Nearly no drop/difference of density (average of 3% and a minimum of 1.1%)
-Cyl 5 : Now this runner is the second worst one (after the Cyl 3). The walls pretty much hold all the density and the inside is nearly empty. Average density difference of 17% difference.
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  • PRESSURE wise, we can see an average drop/difference of 23% (from plenum to runner x5). At max we can see a 36% difference in some cases and goes as low as 11% difference. This leaves a lot of power on the table and is again something else in the design of our cars that robs potential. Weirdly enough the cylinder 3 is the one that has the least issues/drop/difference. And again, weirdly enough cylinder 4 is the one that suffers the most. However, all around it is very lacking and not ideal. Keep in mind that when designing the intake manifold for a performance turbocharged car, the choice between long and short runners and the design of the plenum are crucial for optimizing engine performance. Our OEM design has pretty long runners and is not ideal for high performance goals but is great for everyday driving. The plenum seems to be well design shape wise but is lacking dimension/scale wise as in it should have been bigger (BUT NOT TOO BIG).
  • SHORT RUNNERS : beneficial for high RPM performance because they allow the air to travel quickly into the cylinders. This design helps to maximize horsepower at higher engine speeds, making it suitable for racing or high-speed driving. In a turbocharged engine, short runners can help improve the response of the turbocharger by reducing the volume of air that needs to be pressurized, leading to quicker boost build-up.
  • LONG RUNNERS : better for low to mid-range RPMs. They utilize the principle of resonance, where the air pulses can enhance cylinder filling at these lower engine speeds. This results in better torque and drivability at lower RPMs, which is advantageous for street driving and improving overall engine efficiency.
  • PLENUM DESIGN : is crucial for balancing the airflow and optimizing performance. The size of the plenum should be balanced. A larger plenum can store more air, which can be beneficial for maintaining consistent air pressure and improving throttle response, especially in turbocharged engines. However, it should not be excessively large, as this can lead to slower airflow dynamics. The shape of the plenum should promote even air distribution to all cylinders. Smooth transitions and tapered shapes can help reduce turbulence and ensure that each cylinder receives an equal amount of air. The plenum should be designed to equalize the pressure across all runners. This can help in achieving a balanced air-fuel mixture and consistent performance across all cylinders. The position of the throttle body on the plenum can influence airflow dynamics. Center placement can help distribute air more evenly, whereas side placement may require careful design to avoid flow bias towards certain cylinders.
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  • VELOCITY wise.... where to start. We can see an average drop/difference of 56% (from plenum to runner x5). At max we can see a 87% difference in some cases and goes as low as 18% difference. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE AND HAS TO BE ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS AS TO WHY OUR CARS HAVE SUCH SLOPPY THROTTLE RESPONSE. This is personally what I was looking the most forward to discover. After seeing some very high end performance shop prove how fundamental velocity efficiency in manifolds is, it kind of sealed the deal in my head and was my main target when designing my own intake manifold (more on that later).
  • Cyl 1 : Here we can see that the velocity is NOT straight which does not directly mean that it is a flawed discovery. However, considering the pressure and density findings, it's not a great one... Even tho that velocity is not slowed that much in the runner itself, just before it (in the plenum) we can see a huge amount of turbulence and shows that the air does not directly go into the runner which leads to a slower throttle response and worst top end performance.
  • Cyl 2 : IDEM as Cyl 1 however velocity is more lacking than Cyl 1.
  • Cyl 3 : Now here..... it reaches a maximum of 87% velocity drop. 87 F...ing pourcent. This is happening because of 2 reasons. First, the flow design of the plenum does not allow a good a direct flow. Second, Cyl 4 is taking nearly all all of it which creates a ''suction'' effect.
  • Cyl 4 : No comment other than its velocity is very very good.
  • Cyl 5 : PLEASE WATCH THE VIDEO WHICH HELPS TREMENDOUSLY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS HAPPENING. If you look at the top (plenum) you can see a ''tornado'' forming which then ''blocks'' the air coming from the throttle body and then to the runner. Velocity is greatly reduced in that runner as well (second worst after Cyl 3).
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CONCLUSION AND RECOMMANDATIONS (that I took into consideration when designing my own manifold):

I do think those are the reasons why the MAJORITY of cracked blocks as seen on the cylinder 2-3 and 5 (which lacks uniformity in all simulations). Or at least a HUGE contributing factor to that.... For any mechanic that worked a lot of this platform over the years, this also explains the reasons as to why the Cyl 2, 3 and 5 are the ones that suffer most from burnt exhaust valves and lower compression over the years.

  • Plenum design : Increase the size of the plenum to improve airflow consistency and throttle response, but avoid making it excessively large. Redesign the plenum shape to promote even air distribution and reduce turbulence. Consider central placement of the throttle body to ensure more even airflow distribution. (if possible and if not, it is possible to add a redirecting fin just like rally start central manifolds)
  • Runner design : Opt for shorter runners for high RPM performance to improve horsepower and turbo response. Alternatively, if maintaining long runners for low to mid-range RPM benefits, optimize the internal design to reduce density and velocity losses. Implement smooth transitions and tapered shapes in the runners to minimize turbulence and ensure consistent airflow. I personally opted for internal velocity stacks which was the best results when doing simulations.
  • Flow dynamics optimization : Conduct detailed CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics) simulations to identify and rectify specific areas of turbulence and uneven airflow. Use flow straighteners or velocity stacks to enhance airflow uniformity entering each runner.
  • Pressure equalization : Design modifications to balance pressure across all cylinders, potentially through internal plenum baffles or staged runner entries. Ensure that each runner receives a consistent air-fuel mixture by equalizing pressure, which can improve overall engine performance and reliability.
  • Velocity enhancement : Improve the internal surface finish of runners to reduce friction and enhance velocity. Modify the plenum entry to reduce turbulence and improve the direct flow of air into the runners. Address specific issues in Cylinder 3 and Cylinder 5 by redesigning the runner entries and flow paths to minimize velocity drops and eliminate blockages.

By implementing these design improvements, the intake manifold can achieve better density, pressure, and velocity characteristics, leading to enhanced engine performance, better throttle response, and increased overall efficiency.
I have decided to make mine in 2 pieces and everything will be done using T-6061 aluminum and CNC machined from one uniform block of material.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk... feel free to ask questions








HERE ARE ALL 3 VIDEOS :








 

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#5 ·
Huge thank you! Means a lot to me :) I try my best to utilize all the technology we have to our feet. We are in a golden era where everything is accessible.

I'm a MED student with absolutely ZERO knowledge with engineering, etc. yet I was able to do all of that. Fully self taught. Youtube, forums and some A.. kissing can get you far lol
 
#3 · (Edited)
Thank you. Amazing work. Is it possible for you to do the same for the 850 GLT intake manifold with the variable intake system? Aka Volvo VIS? I am planning on installing it on my car, however at high RPM it seems to have some bottleneck somewhere. I tried to take about 100 or more pictures to create a rough 3D design of it with photogammetry, by which to create an actual model and use SolidWorks for fluid simulation, this fell through as my skills with 3D modelling were not adequate. At low RPM the VIS manifold has all the torque at 3000-3300 rpm, this is perfect, for a naturally aspirated engine at least. It may have some benefit for the turbo versions.

But it's biggest flaw is that at 6000 rpm and open short channels and above it was choking the engine, whereas the normal (NA) manifold did not have this problem and allowed peak hp increase which suggested a flow problem/limit. I speculated it was because the short channel had the tongue which created turbulence in the air charge or a small valley before the tongue which would slow the air down and create back currents.

If it's flaws can be fixed, it may be the better design, it is variable afterall.

Here are some dyno runs with a modified NA engine and the old Volvo VIS manifold
 
#7 ·
Thank you, it is appreciated!

I've played with photogrammetry when I first started, i highly advice against it when it comes to real life parts. It's great tho for render engines or VFX such as cinema 4D, Blender, etc. Also, without a scan, it would not be able to perfectly replicate the inside of the runners and plenum.

As for remaking the part myself, I can for sure I'd be happy to discuss rates with you. HOWEVER, I don't have one in hand to scan. So either you send me one so i scan it OR I would prefer you provide a scan if you can source someone local with a scanner.

Your speculations would be right. Do keep in mind that the runner size / length affects this as well even tho it is not a forced induction situation. The runners do seem to be weirdly merged into the plenum which is not optimal for high end performance.

Variable flaps for NA engines are extremely common in the manifolds (the S80/XC90 V8s have a butterfly flap as well). This allows to somewhat have the benefits of short and long runners. Of course the P80 and P2 designs are truly lacking in my opinion (and as shown for the P2) so there would definitely be room for improvement (especially for top end power and snappy throttle response).

Performance wise, only some other manufacturers have uses flaps in high performance cars because of the complexity for development and the potential restrictions that come with it. It is a great design for daily driving for sure. It had its place in motorsport in the late 90s and up to the late 2000s but the designs were incredible and not really possible unless somewhat has a lot of funds.

I have followed that FCP build and is really cool!
 
#11 ·
Thank you Zak!

When you say you are buying one, are you asking me for one or do you already have one? Because I haven't done any P1 work and not in my plans either as of now.
I will gladly help you out when it comes out to comparing stuff. Let me know in details what you need and what you can provide :)

As for abrasive flow machining, it does not play with flow distribution. It plays (improves) velocity. HOWEVER, this should be one of the last things you do on your car. Depending on where you are and how much they charge, it is usually not worth it if they charge over 100-150$ USD. To play with density and/or pressure, the design needs to be adjusted. Porting the insides can somewhat change it BUT since they are 1 piece, it impossible to do so.
 
#13 ·
No am buying one for comparison purposes, on my build am thinking of using the RS MK2 fuel injectors and need to know if the injector angle is different than P2, plus measure the fuel rail and compare. Have heard that the plastic plenums can explode at higher than stock turbocharger pressure, then get inhaled. I do think that the inner runner portion could be used with a fab'ed plenum of some kind to help address some of the issues you've IDed. Regarding cylinder 2-3 cracking, some have pointed to the number 1 runner on the Japanifold transferring too much heat to that region.
 
#18 ·
As for the block cracking, what I'm showing is not the only factor for sure but definitely a big one. To know exactly what causes it, its fair to say that it is impossible for me to simulate the whole car, every component, etc.

Dont get the plastic one, it is known to blown up at higher pressure
 
#14 · (Edited)
I completely agree with your findings. I even bought a anker intake manifold they make for our cars on ebay. However when i plopped it on it ran like crap. It messed up the fuel air trim so bad because the tunes are really meant to tune for the stock manifold. And finding a tuner to tune right now is a nightmare. Hilton does like 2 tunes a month. Contrast or gustav is also dead. So basically do not change the stock manifold unless you can find a tuner to tune for the upgraded manifold. Otherwise youll get the video i posted. This video is lleak tested with a smoke machine. After putting back on the stock manifold it ran perfect.

 
#23 ·
Just to add a thought.

Plenums are not always needed on force induction engines making good power. For instance my old Peugeot has no Plenum and no runners and it makes just as much power per liter as the R.

EDIT: ... on an engine thats 10 years older with no variable valve timing.
 
#27 · (Edited)
This is most likely caused by oscillations to the cylinders excited by the ping harmonics from knocking. More specifically it can be theorized as a second mode shape deformation of a circular ring with the axis going through maxima/minima displacement of the ring at its weakest point. It means at the points where the cylinder walls are the thinnest, they are acting in a hingle-like manner, and this is why they are cracking.

Oscillations are harmonic motions that are determined by mass and stiffness of the object (and inertia and friction). The natural frequency of an object will shift if any other of those variables are altered. In the case of the cracking cylinder it just happends the harmonics of a knock somewhat coincides with the second shape function which gives it an elliptical deformation consisting of two half circles hinged together at their ends.

If shimming the block, it means there is a boundary condition introduced significantly altering the stiffness properties of the cylinder, and therefore changing the frequency of the second shape function.

This is why and how the effects of shimming can be explained.

The eigen value problem is a fundamental method of determining the frequencies and the mode shapes of a structural dynamics problem (things that are vibrating) numerically.

I am no expert in this but I am an engineer and this problem has been researched multiple times in the past (not related to Volvo), so this is my take and from what I understood some other people understand the problem this way aswell.

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#28 ·
#29 ·
I hope to finally get some numbers on this soon. But putting this out there for people who haven't seen the Milletech set up. Originally this was set up for use with a water to air intercooler in Zelijko's car
 

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#33 ·
This is definitely the easiest way to fix that issue. I personally like to keep my cars as ''OEM'' as possible even tho I have a big turbo and everything on the car has been modified.

I am keeping the stock TB position. It is possible to get the same results but definitely harder and much more work that goes behind that.

I've decided to do so so in no way do I have to change anything else, maintenance stays the same, surrounding hardware stays 100% OEM as well. I can keep an airbox as well unlike when you change the configuration.

Both are great options for sure (not saying the other option is not good) I simply decided to go a different route.

If people are interested I can make another write up on my design and how it fixes every single issue + optimizes the rest :)
 
#37 ·
Seems like runners feeding into a plenum at a common point (think exhaust header) would be good. But, the turns in the runners and length of the runners could become issues.
 
owns 2007 Volvo V70 2.5T
#41 ·
Merging runners is great when it is PAST the engine/head and not BEFORE. If it was placed before (intake manifold), the effect would be limiting / ''bottlenecking'' all 5 runners. In other words, they would be fighting themselves. So that would not be a great idea.

However, when you apply the same merge on the exhaust side, it ''sucks'' the air out of the engine to send it towards the exhaust system. Believe it or not, having that aspect applied on the exhaust side actually helps the intake side as well! Also, it helps with flow, velocity and helps a lot with turbo spooling. Usually comes with equal length when done right which also helps have equal EGTs all around 5 cylinders.

I have a true equal length exhaust manifold with a perfect merger as well. Everything was CAD drawn as well and I tested using 6 velocity probes and additional sensors. I had 1 probe per runner and then one at the merger. This alone helps me spool my turbo much sooner. I also followed the steps of David Mazzei and had him review my work and I was able to get a more exotic sound out of my engine. The car sounds more like a 1st gen Gallardo compared to a deep Viper V10 rumble. This is what I was looking for and extremely pleased with that to be quite honest.

I'll be posting much more content on my YouTube(shameless plug) : Mekanysm

I bought some serious audio gear that I will be playing with in the next couple weeks. have posted a small clip recorded on my phone on my instagram about the exhaust sound change (read the post's description so you have a better idea of what is going on).

Hope this helps :)
 
#45 ·
@Mekanysm, so while on the topic of manifolds, the Turbo manifolds have a simpler design that allows for easy scanning/replicating in CAD. But the NA manifolds have a snail shell design where the runners curve inside in order to achieve length, for such a complex shape, does it need to be cut up in pieces for 3D scanning or is there a way to cheat and get it done more easily? The VIS manifolds also have a separator in the runners for the long and short channels which further makes the shape even more complex.
 
#50 ·
Is it possible without cutting it, sure.

the question should be, is it worth it? It would be much faster to cut it and make it from there.
Get a spare one and make clean cuts and split it open.

without opening there will always be room for error which you want to avoid when trying to be as precise as possible
 
#51 · (Edited)
I won’t continue to argue with you unless you can get actual data and numbers to back up what you’re spewing, because everyone that has done any actual research on this - me on the flow bench, many others with side-by-side comparisons on an actual car with MAF flow rates, etc - shows that you are wrong. Japanifold is port matched for better scavenging, has higher average airspeed, has more internal volume for better flow, etc. This will (and has actually been proven, in the real world, and not on a nonexistent ancient paper) to spool quicker, make more top end power, and increase drivability. Turbos are a totally different ballgame and not comparable to manifold design. Twin scrolls also have a bigger passage for high end power, something that doesn’t exist on the choked-down 2.5T manifold and will cause loss of power. I understand what you are getting at, but you are interpreting it incorrectly and coming to false conclusions. By your logic, an early P80 manifold must be even better, because it has even less internal volume and smaller passages. Not how it works buddy.
Completely agree with you!

wagonswede seems to apply one thing for every aspect. I do understand what he says and it does make sense but to say that there is only one answer or one thing affecting it is a bit far fetched to say the least.

I think he is simply misinterpreting it but does have good will.

Turbo is a different thing tho, i do agree the size affects throttle response but we are talking about manifolds.
Modern manifold design centers around how to transfer the gass pulses through as few junctions with as little reflections as possible. To achieve this the junction dimensions, the angle, throat area etc is shaped such that steady state flow is impacted negatively. Efficient "flow" and pulse reflections are two completely different things. So you can't just measure flow and call it a day.

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These type of manifolds are called Pulse Converter Exhaust Manifold. All modern manifold designs on production cars have tried to utilize this theory to some extent that is possible from manufacturing and packaging constraints. If you look into the design of modern manifolds you should also notice all of them go in the direction of shortening runner lengths.

Ford Focus RS MKII

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Audi RS3 2.5

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Volvo VEA HP (T6 Polestar)

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All these manifolds are integrated, an effect of moving the junctions closer to the turbine wheel but the thing they have in common with the "R-manifold" is that the short routing reduces volume. This is no coincidence. We all know all these newer cars have much better transient response than an old Volvo T5 from 2000 and almost all of it is adhered to turbo and exhaust Manifold design.

The reason for this is because of preservating gas velocity. Initial pressure wave from valve opening is what is making the turbine wheel spin faster because this shock wave moves the fatest, reducing transient response. By shortening the distance and reducing the volume of the runners the pressure delta increases, meaning higher manifold pressure during Exhaust scavenging and more importantly lower manifold pressure at the moment of valve opening on which the pressure wave can ride on. If it's less air in the way ofcourse the pressure wave will travel faster.

So the governing dimension is enough area for the required volume to pass at Mach1, which is the limiting factor. You dont really need more "flow" than that. This is also how restrictors work. Mass air through a certain area at the speed of sound and this is the power you get. The rest is secondary.

Supporting test showing significant power gains by reducing manifold volume alone.

 
#52 · (Edited)
I am also going to repeat what has been said in the past.

20 years ago when the best tuners in Sweden were working on the whiteblock, noone was swapping the R-manifold for the Japanifold even when pushing north of 500bhp. Tuners saw no benefit using the Japanifold.

Then 15 years later someone in the US thinks he is on to something noone else has figured out.
 
#53 ·
I think the answer to the transient response issue can be multifold. And the answer might be different for AWD vs. FWD. For my FWD T5 build am leaning heavily towards Japanifold because power too early creates traction problems. Would rather have the power come on at higher RPM, Japanifold should support that. To offset the increased lag of the considerably higher volume Japanifold am using a TiAl turbine (and single point milled compressor wheel of MHI design) and staying with TD04HL housing at 7 cm2 (but have a 11 cm2 housing on hand if uncorking is needed). The TiAl turbine has less flow area due to compromises in the turbine blade shape however, probably costing 20 hp on top.

Mekansym implies but does not state that the answer to the variations in intake flow is to redesign the exhaust manifold, but think he may have something further up his sleeve. Hope he gives more clues soon as my intake is about to be torqued down and exhaust manifold final port match and install is next . . .
 
#57 ·
I think the answer to the transient response issue can be multifold. And the answer might be different for AWD vs. FWD. For my FWD T5 build am leaning heavily towards Japanifold because power too early creates traction problems.
A japanifold is so close to a stock manifold it's not worth messing with.
Good porting is much more useful.
And your manifold won't create bottom end torque,it will just limit it in the upper rpms.
 
#54 ·
The problem with the intake is it makes a 90 degree turn 2 times to reach the head..
Everytime it turns is looses a little boost.
That is true for every turn your setup makes from the turbo onwards.
Porting the intake,head and exhaust helps a bunch,especially in the upper rpms and high hp setups.
And the intake has nothing to do with cracked cylinder liners. They crack because of thermal retraction of the aluminum block when it's cold and the steel head gasket.
All it takes is repeated abuse before it warms up and your toast. Seals great when it's warm though.