You'll be missing lots of data if you just look for discount, but either way, you're not going to see 20% of real discount. Volvo isn't at all desperate to put deals together because their sales are up so no need for huge rebates. I don't think you'll see that with anyone in the lux segment (maybe a leftover Infinity fi you consider that lux). Sales have been hugely strong since last spring. It's February, and I'm not making many sales compared to spring summer and fall, but it's still been my best February I can remember in terms of volume and traffic.

 

Thanks for your response.

What data would I be missing if I am only looking for a discount? Which is exactly what I am looking for. This will be a straight fw lease w/ very good credit with no trade in & etc most likely on a factory ordered car. I am sure 20% discount days are gone and hence my question. What I am after is the % of the discount provided (excluding current incentives) and a MF for a 12K miles per year.

To me, buying a brand new car is the easiest thing to do as I can shop nationwide and will purchase the vehicle from the dealer who wants my business. Again, I am not new to this and purchase or lease one brand new car at least per year.

I am already getting quotes from folks for the same build / term / milage that are all over the board.

 

Because you're not asking about any of the fees..... Doc fees vary, I've seen places have prep fees, I've seen place have fees if you don't finance with them (not going to happen on a lease, but it's a fee). I've seen lots of states that allow you to show a discount for a vehicle that does not include the destination fee, even though it's part of the MSRP... So just asking for a huge discount can literally have thousands of dollars of hidden costs. I do not get into pricing on the forum, but I will speak up and point out that just seeing the biggest discount doesn't actually mean a darn thing and one needs to be careful in their nation wide searches. Perhaps you knew all that, but not everyone does and they get tricked by a "lower price" that isn't.

 

And 100%, shopping a lease by your real payment is the best way to compare if cost is the concern. It's the only number that matters, and for the customer literally matters zero how that number is arrived. The rest is just math... and it's far easier to not ask every question or consider every comparison and miss something ... but your monthly payment is your monthly payment... that's the real cost.

Any article that says otherwise is just trying to get you to click and read their garbage and ignore basic greater than less than decision making.

 

My question remains the same.

All I am looking for is % discount off of MSRP excluding incentives and MF figures from other members.

If anyone is shopping based on monthly payments, they should go back to school on purchasing cars or anything for that matter. I am sorry but I 100% disagree with your logic. Are you telling me just bec the payment is where it needs to be, charging a ridiculous amount of interest is a good idea or marking up the MF where most folks have no idea how it is calculated??? Dealers add bunch of $$$$ here and there on leased car bec your average customer have no idea how to back into the deal.

I have never paid any other fee in my life including doc fees, prep fees, regional adjustment fees etc etc etc. Probably bought well over 100 cars so far. Dealers can try to charge whatever they wish but at the end of the day if they are not willing to get rid of the nonsense, I am already entertaining the next best quote.

PS: Not financing with us fee is a brand new one that I have never heard before

 

If they're not willing to get rid of that "nonsense" (aka overhead costs and profit has to come from somewhere), then it will just be in the price. It doesn't go away, and that just goes back to my point. If you got a quote from every dealer in the country, the lowest payment would be the best. If you got all the fees, MSRP, sale price, rebates, money factors, from every dealer and compared, you'd still possibility miss something, and you'd also have quite a bit more math to sort out... monthly payment is the cost. How the cost is arrived to doesn't matter. All the data you're asking for leads to what the monthly payment is. Why do you care if one place has a $1000 fee and another has a sale price $1000 less? It makes zero difference to a customer when it comes to cost of ownership.

Nothing I said had anything about the payment being where it needs to be. I left such dealers years ago. If you're shopping multiple dealers for the best deal amongst them, then the only smart way to compare is a payment on the same car. If you haven't picked out a specific car or brand yet well then you do have a ton more homework to do. But still, if you get a payment on an XC60 and a X3 and a GLC and one of them is notably better than the other too, that's probably the car with the best programs on it. But it still doesn't matter at all if that is due to rebates, money factor, or residual. Discount from dealers between brands is a far more regionally based. Best deals between brands are going to be based on the manufacturers programs. My point is that the payment is the true cost, and that's simply a mathematical fact. And the lowest cost is the best if cost is your deciding factor.

If you've bought 100 new cars in your lifetime, then you aren't going to a forum because the best you got so far was a $2000 discount either, you'd know plenty of people in the industry =-D

And yeah, the not financing with us fee was a new one I came across this year. Doesn't surprise me.

And a finial note... generally there shouldn't be a difference between an on lot car and a factory order (locates do have a cost associated). I generally think most people should factory order and get what they want and it makes comparison quotes easy as the units are identical. I can think of only two exceptions. One is if you have a really weird order and the dealer gives you a high price hoping you don't take it, because the risk of being stuck with the unit is higher than the benefit of having you as a customer. The other is when a dealer has that unit that's horrible, has probably been there awhile, and they have some advertising money moved over to it in order to unload. You don't get to be picky, but finding such a car can be an unprecedented good deal if it fits your needs.

 

@850t5 and @DFrantz -

I think you both are trying to get to the same point, but saying it in different ways. If I understand correctly, the real question will really depend upon whether the transaction is a lease or outright purchase.

If a lease, then the comparison points seem to be: Cap cost reduction, security deposit, mileage/over mileage charge, monthly payment (which should include any taxes and annual registration fees) and lease end disposition fee. My understanding is that these expenses will be set by the lease and it does not matter what the "sale price" or "money factor" are since they can vary from dealer to dealer on the identical car. The crucial question is how much are you going to spend. That said, if you are trying to play one dealer off another on a lease, especially where you are trying to get the dealer with the lower sale price to come down on the money factor, then having that information would be worthwhile.

In an outright purchase, I only care about the final out the door price (which includes tags, tax and license registration) and shop my financing separately (if I am not paying cash). In this regard, I have consistently found that I get better rates at the dealer, even with their mark up, than I would at the local bank branch. When I purchased my last Suburban, I found that both the trade offer and the sale price varied greatly from dealer to dealer for no rhyme or reason. It really came down to how motivated they were or were not to make a deal. The last dealer I ended up at under cut the out of state dealer by $500 even though the out of state dealer only had a $75 doc fee and the Virginia dealer where I bought the truck had a $799 doc fee.

Note about Doc Fees: in some states there has apparently been litigation where dealerships have been charged with discrimination for waiving "mandatory" Doc fees on some transactions but not others. As a result, they will always charge the fee. The work around is to have them reduce the purchase price by the Doc fee amount.

 

Fair points. There is a misconception that people have about leases and that's how dealers make bunch of money out of unsuspecting people. Not sure what % of Volvos are leases but it doesn't sound nearly as much as BMW or Audis. The information I am asking for is readily discussed and shared on their own forums continuously.

Buy vs Lease, negotiation should be no different. You should absolutely care about out the door price of a leased car as well. Your lease payments will depend on the final price you agreed to pay for the car. Just like it would be if you were to finance the car. Further, say 4 months into your lease, you want to buy the car and your pay off will be the price you negotiated. ALL residual, milage over charges & etc are set by Volvo Cars NA and dealers have no control with an exception of being able to mark up MF.

OK, as a reference here is what I am seeing so far:

5% off of MSRP off the gate is almost what all dealers offered.....some as high as 10% excluding incentives
MF is .00089 with a 57% residual on 36 / 12K (might vary by region).....one dealer quoted .00189 as a MF (NICE TRY!!!!)

 

I think that's generally a good understanding. Dealers don't always "mark up" a rate. In fact, it's very rare that I do. We get what is called a "flat rate" just for giving the bank your business. I assume most Volvo customers are educated with rates, so I feel it's in my interest to just give them the best rate I can and be satisfied with the smaller amount the bank gives us for that. Often the "buy rate" we get from a bank is lower than their lobby rate, meaning even if a customer is a member of that bank already, I can still often beat what they walk in the door with as their standard. But at the same time, dealers CAN mark up rates, and many with the lowest prices do by default. Give the car away and try to make every cent through he rest of the transaction. Some can navigate the whole thing, but others miss one step and that's where they make their money. They can sell for less based on taking advantage of some people.

Yes, some states do mandate doc fees to be equal to all. Government working for you there! Still, doc fees are not just a pure profit. I've said before, PA did an audit of dealerships in our state and determined the state avg cost of handling the documents was $389. So that's what they allow us to charge and thats what every dealer I know of charges. We actually did our own internal and found our cost was about $100 less, but we found that just put us at a $100 disadvantage in advertising with other Volvo stores in the state. My point here is, there are expenses with handling the paperwork. While in some industries you would expect that just to be part of the cost and reflected in a straight forward price (I'd support this!!!) it just isn't the way the auto industry is regulated. And the average internet shopping customer really does just ask about the price. It's very rare that a walk phone call or walk in customer asks about fees before they sit down. Now I lay the fees out when I show folks the numbers, but I know other places use 4 square and other old games... so it might not be shown until you "sign here" and happen to look up at the buyers order and see those fees and ask about em. I don't like this, but it's the competitive environment I live in.

And that's why I like a more straight forward approach. The shortest way to express the real cost is the best way to compare. A monthly payment, finance or lease, can't really hid fees, because they are reflected in there. Full itemization just gets you finding some places with better prices, others with better rates, and others with better fees... what the consumer cares about is best overall, and while you might feel better doing the math yourself, the equations you're making are going to be based on the monthly payment as their simplest term before calculating outright cost.

My interest is in the fact that I sell cars in a more conservative state. I know I lose business to places that advertise an artificially low price where they fees are taken out and they use every rebate in the book. I HATE how every manufacturer advertised lease payments on base models with thousands down. That's stupid. Further, it's not too uncommon to find artificially higher residual values or better money factors on such models to "get the conversation started". No one really wants a T4 XC40 Momentum with no options... but they lease better than a T5 R design by the money factor and residual. Volvo can afford to do that because on one will lease it, and it makes the XC40 look like it leases better than it does. And I'm quite sure you'll find such tricks across the board from car makers.

And last point... and you can get back to asking for discounts people got, I have no problem being higher priced than someone else. I do think I'm worth it, and I know our store is. But when it looks like I'm $5000 higher than another store, and when the real payments are compared and I'm maybe $500 or $1000 more, I think that's disingenuous marketing. Some of it is dealers faults, some of it is state laws all being different, but it's not in the consumers interest for the sale price to have so little meaning.

 

I recently bought a 2021 xc60 which retailed for about 48k. I asked for and received $5000 off with
no incentives. I was not trying for a great deal, just one I was happy with. I bought it at the local Volvo dealership in Overland Park.

 

Thank you for sharing.

 

I think you guys are both right for your own points...

Let's take customer A -- on a fixed income that budgets $450 a month for a vehicle payment. If he goes to the dealership to lease a vehicle for the next 3 years and they can get him in the xc60 that he wants for $449 a month with proper mileage limits, etc - it doesn't really matter (to that buyer) if he's getting 1% under MSRP or 10% under MSRP. It doesn't matter if his MF is .001 or .00057. He hit his goal and he's going to be happy in that vehicle.

Customer B -- he doesn't really care if his payment if $400 or $550...but he wants to see how the actual numbers work out - he wants to see the biggest discount (and compare it with other buyers from sources on the internet) from MSRP, he wants to see the MF and then whatever the payment works out to be in the end, he'll be happy with. As long as he feels he's getting a fair deal, he's going to also leave happy.

I think a mix between the two is where most people do fall - I, personally, want to see a few numbers when talking about a car. I want to see MSRP, Invoice, Final selling price, APR (or MF and residual), any additional manufacturer-offered rebates, my trade value, and money down. I should be able to take those same numbers, do a little side math, and end up around the same place where they're putting the payments at. If something doesn't check out, then we need to go into more depth.

Neither method is necessarily wrong - certainly Customer B is going to be almost guaranteed to get the best deal that can be had, but Customer A is going to be happy as well...and if Customer A shops multiple brands or even multiple dealers of the same brand, he can bring any concerns to his chosen dealer and eventually he'll get a similar deal to Customer B anyway -- quite possibly right from the start, depending on the dealer.

 

Let's take customer A -- on a fixed income that budgets $450 a month for a vehicle payment. If he goes to the dealership to lease a vehicle for the next 3 years and they can get him in the xc60 that he wants for $449 a month with proper mileage limits, etc - it doesn't really matter (to that buyer) if he's getting 1% under MSRP or 10% under MSRP. It doesn't matter if his MF is .001 or .00057. He hit his goal and he's going to be happy in that vehicle

There are still problems with this scenario. Your own statement says the customer isn't just shopping on monthly price, but also cares about proper mileage limits and the length of term. One issue is customers come in to a dealer and may be so focused on $450 a month that they don't realize the dealer switched them from a 36 month lease to 39 months. And it went from 15k miles to 10k miles. I've seen people purchase cars and be happy with their monthly payment until they realize they're on the hook for a 78 month loan!

Even if the dealer gives the customer their desired term and mileage, it's possible that the customer's monthly budget is high for the vehicle they're looking at. I'm not saying everyone needs to pull every penny of profit out of a deal for it to be a good deal, but I never think a customer should be ripped off. And when a customer honestly gives their budget in terms of monthly payment, they may be giving the dealer a tempting opportunity to rip them off.

There are many ways that an experienced dealer can alter the deal in their favor, to the detriment of the customer. That is why you can't ever just look at the monthly payment. You MUST always look at the "entire deal". So you can't just look at the monthly payment, but also the interest rate or money factor, length of term, fees, etc.

 

DFrantz said "I generally think most people should factory order and get what they want and it makes comparison quotes easy as the units are identical." I agree. When I decided to purchase my 2020 V90 Inscription T6, I contacted 5 Volvo dealers via email. Gave them my factory order build sheet. Stated that it would not include a trade-in and that I was prepared to self-finance. Requested an "out-the-door" price, and defined this as the amount of money I would write on the check and drive the car off of the lot, adjusting for if/any manufacturer and/or dealer incentives at time of delivery. I also stated that I would expect their quote, if provided, to be a final offer.

I received 4 "out-the-door" dealer quotes and disqualified one of those. The disqualified one wasn't really "out-the-door", but merely an offer that could have been further negotiated. I compared the remaining 3 quotes and selected one for purchase.

I'm sure others, particularly those who have more purchase experience, may have done better. However, in my case, with less experience, at least I tried to conduct comparison pricing in a rational manner. At the end-of-the-day, the price one gets is what the dealer is willing to charge. Their final charge has a lot to do (at that point-in-time) with the economy, how in-demand the car is, potential manufacturer dealer sales volume paybacks, and many-many other factors of which I may have little knowledge or control of. Lastly, once one gets comparable quotes from several dealers, it's up to the buyer to decide which to choose, if any.

IMO, I feel a car is a just commodity, even though I'm a car-guy. A factory-ordered car is an IDENTICAL commodity that can be sold by many dealers. In my case, I felt that by comparing an identical car (commodity), under the same purchase terms, from several dealers, was my best chance for obtaining a reasonable purchase price.

 

Looking at just monthly payment is an easy way to give the salesperson a nice bonus vacation.

We all need to be educated consumers and understand what discounts you are getting (dealer discount off MSRP, mfg rebates, etc.) along with any and all fees.

Not doing so is just irresponsible.

 

Looking at just monthly payment is an easy way to give the salesperson a nice bonus vacation.

We all need to be educated consumers and understand what discounts you are getting (dealer discount off MSRP, mfg rebates, etc.) along with any and all fees.

Not doing so is just irresponsible.

I totally agree with your comment about being an "educated consumer". However, IMO, the average buyer does not have the inclination to determine all of the potential discounts that could reduce their purchase cost. This is not to say that they should or have to remain at the mercy of dealers pushing bad deals.

IMO, buyers should treat their potential car purchase as a common commodity and obtain out-the-door pricing from several dealerships (ideally, 3 or more). Instead of a person negotiating with one dealer, have several dealers compete with each other for one's business. In addition, buyers should rely on the internet and email for communication, instead of being subjected to potential in-person persuasive sales practices. I am not a professional negotiator, nor do I wish to devote the time and energy to this. However, the dealerships are professional negotiators, and they do this every day. To think the average car buyer can beat these people at their own game, IMO, is unlikely to often happen. While, IMO, a relatively few can hold their own with a dealership and a seasoned salesperson, the majority of car buyers are not/will be as skilled. However, by comparison shopping, this can improve the buyers chances of obtaining a reasonable purchase price.

Will price shopping with several dealerships generate the best end-price for a car? Probably not. My guess is a seasoned and educated negotiator could/would be able to obtain additional discounts. However, by comparison shopping with several dealers, IMO, at least the buyer can obtain a far better price than just going to one dealer and being led, like a lamb to slaughter, to agree to a higher than necessary price for their car.

 

If that’s truly your argument, I rest my case.

 

If that's truly your argument, I rest my case.

You lose your case, then.

Like I said, go read forums or reddit. Lots of people leave dealers with terms contrary to what they thought they'd get.

 

The car has been purchased from a dealership within 4 hrs of initial contact as they clearly understood that they were dealing with a no-BS customer. --Again, I know my stuff and these guys were also a volume BMW dealership which most BMW customers like myself know our lease details. They recognized that and made a great offer which we took.

I will share the details of the deal shortly.

Couple of lessons learned from this thread as to my surprise. Most Volvo shoppers are not apparently familiar with details of leasing as I saw many dealers try to take advantage of the situation.

1. If you are shopping for a monthly payment and know nothing about leasing - walk away. Seriously, this is how the housing crisis happened in 2008. A dealer will get you into a HORRIBLE deal but will meet your monthly requirements.

2. Shop for exactly what you want / need. We built a car, wanted to lease and that was our deal...... no other stories. If you walk into a dealership (which I hope you just don't do) without a goal, you will be taken advantage of. We bought EXACTLY the car in colors / options & etc we wanted ----Apples to apples comparison.

3. Apparently, Volvo offers no price / rate protection for a customer who wants to order a car from factory unlike other high-end brands. BMW will lock your rate until your car shows up and if the rates / incentives get better, they will honor the better deal. Volvo, NO CLUE! - Wonder why 80% of the BMWs are leases. Almost all Volvo sales folks were dumb founded when we said that we wanted to order a car.

4. Many dealerships offered great discounts but as the discounts got big so did the Money Factor on the lease and when I called them out on it they all disappeared.

At the end of the day, my in-laws got a 2021 XC-60 at over 10%+ discount, with base MF which is .00089 with zero additional fees. The dealership had the exact configuration in inventory minus a 20" wheel option which costs $1,000. Dealership agreed to deduct the wheel option on top of the discount provided to make the deal work. They did not need to do this and my hat is off to them!

For those of you only shopping for the payment here is an example:

We got quotes for the same identical car for same identical lease term, same identical down payment (which is just the incidentals) with same identical conditions varying from $510 a month all the way to $780 a month! ----Guess what deal we ended up taking?????

Peace, I wish there were more price discussions on this board.

 

Most Volvo shoppers are not apparently familiar with details of leasing as I saw many dealers try to take advantage of the situation.

3. Apparently, Volvo offers no price / rate protection for a customer who wants to order a car from factory unlike other high-end brands. BMW will lock your rate until your car shows up and if the rates / incentives get better, they will honor the better deal. Volvo, NO CLUE! - Wonder why 80% of the BMWs are leases. Almost all Volvo sales folks were dumb founded when we said that we wanted to order a car.

4. Many dealerships offered great discounts but as the discounts got big so did the Money Factor on the lease and when I called them out on it they all disappeared.

Volvo leases a tremendous amount of cars, and since Volvo has a large % of repeat buyers the generalization the Volvo customers are not familiar with leasing seems peculiar to me. I don't think a dealer would agree with your assessment.

Volvo custom orders are indeed price protected, just like BMW. I know this is a fact because my custom order in October was indeed price protected for December delivery. Perhaps all the particular specifics on the definition of "price protect" varies a little between brands, but a ordered lease Volvo is guaranteed that the lease offer at time of order is a "worst price scenario" and is locked in, but allows your deal to get better if the offers are better at time of delivery.

The amount of money dealers make on an increased MF is minimal and it's extremely uncommon to sell cars at inflated MF rates. A large discount only has a meager increase in profit from an increased money factor, so the reality is a little different than you imply. A dealer determine how much they want to discount the car just like they decide if they want to earn an interest profit on the MF. "Calling them out" seems a weird way to refer to their pricing structure, as if they are some how being shady (which of course they are not). You act as if knowing the MF is a secret when it is not.

Congratulations on getting the deal you wanted. Your experience described her is interesting, as it certainly doesn't represent the way many of us buy a car. Your definition of a "good deal" and how payment shopping is not relevant is certainly your opinion, as many of us look at it very differently. Many of us enjoy buying a car and like working with our dealer, which is in contrast to how you approach trying to scorch the dealership baddies over a few hundred dollars. I guess that's why certain dealerships do business in very different ways - some accommodate your buying strategy while others do not.

 

To further the price discussion please post the details of your deal.

MSRP
Sale price
Discounts
Term
Miles
Residual
MF
Cap Reduction
Drive off
Monthly payment - pre-tax

 

To further the price discussion please post the details of your deal.

MSRP
Sale price
Discounts
Term
Miles
Residual
MF
Cap Reduction
Drive off
Monthly payment - pre-tax

Pricesly what I wanted to document in this thread!

MSRP: $49,490
Sale price: $44,490
Discounts / Rebates: $1500
Final Selling price after discounts & rebates: $42,990
Term: 36 months
Miles: 15K per year
Residual: 55%
MF: .00089
Drive off: 1st month + reg & licensing: $1646
Monthly payment - pre-tax: $502 + tax

To counter above statement about dealers making few hunters dollars on MF. If the money factor was .00189 (as we have been offered several times), payments would of been $570 a month and that is a total of: $2520 during the term of the lease.

Overall, this was quick process and what I have shared with you is the experience and feedback from the 15+ (I think) dealerships that I have reached out to. We will be purchasing 2 additional Volvos from this dealership as I was very impressed with their overall service.

Hope this is helpful for some.

 

Volvo here in Ontario, Canada is currently having a 5 day sales promotion. Since I am only into month 20 of my 48 month lease, I wasn't really interested however I received a text from a dealer asking if I was interested so just for giggles, I replied yes. A salesman contacted me yesterday and after a lot of back and forth texts & emails the end result is that I am leasing a 2021 XC60 Momentum T6....with all the same packages (Climate, Premium, Advanced) and features (leather interior, 20" wheels, Protection package, stainless steel bumper cover, Security package) plus a few more like HUD, Harmon Kardon Audio, sunglass holder, and load securing net. They are also throwing in front/rear mud flaps, the rear dirt deflectors and will be taking the winter tires off my current XC60 and installing them on the new one. The new deal includes waiver of the first 3 monthly payments so when I pick up the car I just have to pay the normal Due on Delivery charges for Administration Fee, A/C tax, Tire Levy, Fuel, Licensing, etc. Because I am travelling 3.5 hours (380 km) to get to the dealership, the sales manager knocked off another $300 off the Due on Delivery charge. There is no security deposit required. With the upgraded options, discounts, waiver of first 3 payments and the monthly payment slightly less than I am paying now...I think I am getting a great deal. Oh and the new car is also Crystal White but with the Maroon Brown Interior instead of Black.

 

What discounts are you folks seeing for XC60s these days? Both on factory ordered cars or something off the lot.

I am summoned to shop for a new XC60 T5 Momentum for the fam and so far I am not impressed with the numbers.

What are your experiences and what are some of the lease deals are people getting these days?

I am mostly interested in:

MSRP
Discount Received
Money Factor / Milage per year / Residual (if leased)

I buy a new car pretty much every year so I am very familiar with how the game is played. However, it has been forever since I shopped for a new Volvo hence my questions.

Back in the day, it was normal to get a 20%+ discount on a $50K S60R but so far, I am seeing $1500 to $2K discounts.

I am super tempted to have the fam pursue a BMW X3 instead but I will give Volvo a shot 1st.

Please share your deals & THANK YOU!

With all due respect, how far "back in the day" did you ever see or hear of 20% discounts on ANY Volvo - the 1990s? I worked in the industry for several years and 6-8% is the max I've seen in the SPA era.
Even taking loyalty or A-Plan into account, I can't imagine any dealer foolish to go above 12% total (all rebates, incentives, market volume bonus).

As to the X3... It's a ho-hum performer in the real world unless you opt for the substantially more expensive M40i variant. We used to get them on trade somewhat frequently and I'd take potential XC40 customers who were "on the fence" out in one. Why show them a smaller car? It's pretty telling that a Volvo one size class down matches it in acceleration, handling, braking distance, etc. Then we'd drive the XC60. Better seats, better interior, smooth ride, better fuel economy, MUCH better roadside assistance (faster response times than AAA!), the list goes on. It always had a dramatic impact on the conversation!

Really curious though... Why on earth are you acquiring a new car every year?

 

With all due respect, how far "back in the day" did you ever see or hear of 20% discounts on ANY Volvo - the 1990s? I worked in the industry for several years and 6-8% is the max I've seen in the SPA era.
Even taking loyalty or A-Plan into account, I can't imagine any dealer foolish to go above 12% total (all rebates, incentives, market volume bonus).

As to the X3... It's a ho-hum performer in the real world unless you opt for the substantially more expensive M40i variant. We used to get them on trade somewhat frequently and I'd take potential XC40 customers who were "on the fence" out in one. Why show them a smaller car? It's pretty telling that a Volvo one size class down matches it in acceleration, handling, braking distance, etc. Then we'd drive the XC60. Better seats, better interior, smooth ride, better fuel economy, MUCH better roadside assistance (faster response times than AAA!), the list goes on. It always had a dramatic impact on the conversation!

Really curious though... Why on earth are you acquiring a new car every year?

The last time I was in a Volvo dealership was to acquire one of the last R car allocations in 2007. MSRP was $50K and they came all the way down to $38K on a factory ordered car. Since then with a couple of exceptions, Volvo has not made anything that was of an interest. This particular car we got 14% after all said and done as I listed earlier. It wasn't the best offer I got but this particular dealer had the exact car in stock ready to go.

BMW vs Volvo: BMW leases much better, dealership experience day and night but due to some of the reasons you have listed, they were not interested in X3 at all. They wanted a denim blue XC60.

Cars are my hobby and the folks / friends / fam who know that and end up asking for help or more like for me to take over the whole process. The back forth thing is silly to most people.