[VolvoGoteborg]

Being pedantic, its the V40CC that is the only car available with VEA engines and AWD. And I'm assuming the mention of EUCD AWD VEA-engined cars is a reference to the T6 twin-engine arrangement in the Chinese-built S60L - not EUCD cars with Haldex AWD and VEA engines.

Tony

Hi Tony,

Yes true the V40CC is the only V40 product with VEA engines and AWD - and it uses the 8 speed automatic AW TG-81SC

VEA engines with AWD (Haldex) are coming to the EUCD cars as well

 

[P50GT]

I don't know that's entirely true. The V60 was in Europe for years, and I mean years. Now, I know they made a refresh and the original one wasn't quite as you see the latest one but still most of the investment had already been done.
I'm sure at some point they had decided there were no market for it in the US. And of course there was the V50 available back then fitting the perceived less desired spot Wagons where thought of. Than here we are today and they brought the V60 here.

I agree that automaker highly look at making cars cost effective. That is part of their business. But a lot of the time it's still just a judgment call because they can't predict with certainty the success or demise of a vehicle. Further more they also rely so much on traditional model of doing business across the entire line of product and due to this they miss out a lot of opportunities by selectively bending economic rules here and there to keep the brand image strong. I still believe not bringing the V40 was a mistake but it is not my risk to take so undertsandably it's easy for me as a buyer to say this. It may not have generated the type revenue they would hope but it would have provided a marketing boost at a time the brand was getting pretty weak in the US. Will it have long term effect. Not likely. They have a pretty focus plan which makes them strong (again belief can do wonders to product development) but from my point of view it wasn't very considerate for Volvo fans in the US. Cutting down models after models and not infusing a temporary relief the V40 could have brought made them loose some time in customer image. It's good the XC60 was still fresh enough.
It's also likely that wanting to go up market played a role in the decision by de-prioritizing a V40 trim for the US. If you imply you want to go up-market, have little new models, and bring a V40. One could argue that it doesn't portray the premium brand image you're hoping for.

Bringing the V40 over would have been a mistake. As much as I love my V60, it has not been a sales success. In fact, it is doing pretty poorly. Americans continue to buy crossovers and SUV's over wagons. There is a reason that Audi ditched the A3 hatchback for the A3 sedan and it's been a huge success. Enthusiasts love hatchbacks and wagons, but unfortunately the general buying public does not and sales numbers reflect that. Volvo can get away with selling only 590 V60's in March compared to 2,464 XC60 because of the price point. They could not justify the cost of bringing over the V40 and only selling a few hundred of them.

 

[goVolvo]

Bringing the V40 over would have been a mistake. As much as I love my V60, it has not been a sales success. In fact, it is doing pretty poorly. Americans continue to buy crossovers and SUV's over wagons. There is a reason that Audi ditched the A3 hatchback for the A3 sedan and it's been a huge success. Enthusiasts love hatchbacks and wagons, but unfortunately the general buying public does not and sales numbers reflect that. Volvo can get away with selling only 590 V60's in March compared to 2,464 XC60 because of the price point. They could not justify the cost of bringing over the V40 and only selling a few hundred of them.

Agree on American do not like wagons that much, but V40 Polestar would be a different monster. It will sell hundreds, and also attracts more people to the show room.
I can't wait to see how hot Focus RS is going to be in 2016.

It is fine to not planning V40 for U.S. initially. But designing a model that does not fit in one of the biggest market didn't sound right, while the platform (which shares a lot with Focus) allows it.

 

[P50GT]

Agree on American do not like wagons that much, but V40 Polestar would be a different monster. It will sell hundreds, and also attracts more people to the show room.
I can't wait to see how hot Focus RS is going to be in 2016.

It is fine to not planning V40 for U.S. initially. But designing a model that does not fit in one of the biggest market didn't sound right, while the platform (which shares a lot with Focus) allows it.

I agree that a V40 P* would be a great car. Unfortunately bringing over just a performance model is even less likely than bringing over the entire V40 range. Trying to bring over just the V40 P* would result in a car priced very close to the V60 P* and they would barely sell a handful.

The profit margins based on the projected sales just were not high enough for them to justify any additional expense on the V40. This is not unique to Volvo. It happens at every single automaker. When it comes to Hatchbacks and wagons, the US is always the loser.

 

[brissim]

...............VEA engines with AWD (Haldex) are coming to the EUCD cars as well

Interesting news. Do you have a time frame for this? With the details of the MY16 models available on most European Volvo websites now, its been disappointing (at least to me) that no MY16 EUCD Volvos will have the AWD Drive-E combination. So are you talking about MY17?

Tony

 

[USER12JAN17]

I agree that a V40 P* would be a great car. Unfortunately bringing over just a performance model is even less likely than bringing over the entire V40 range. Trying to bring over just the V40 P* would result in a car priced very close to the V60 P* and they would barely sell a handful.

The profit margins based on the projected sales just were not high enough for them to justify any additional expense on the V40. This is not unique to Volvo. It happens at every single automaker. When it comes to Hatchbacks and wagons, the US is always the loser.

Maybe "every single automaker" is a little strong. MB imports to the US roughly 1100 E 350 4-Matic Wagons, and roughly 100 E 63 4-Matic Wagons. And quite frankly do not believe they are losing money on those 1200 vehicles. I know the price point is different on a E 350 and a V 40, but so would be the volumes. And when you compare a 60K MB wagon to some of the prices Volvo is talking about the difference isn't that great.

Its the Volvo mindset, "we're going to rebuild the brand with five, maybe six volume models." "we're not getting into that rat-race." My perception is MB, BMW, and Audi are willing to battle it out for each point of market share. Volvo with admittedly few resources says it is going to go another direction. Personally I think Volvo is wrong. They don't have to design models to meet each and every model offered by the Germans, but if it is in the world wide inventory, they should bring it in.

 

[P50GT]

Maybe "every single automaker" is a little strong. MB imports to the US roughly 1100 E 350 4-Matic Wagons, and roughly 100 E 63 4-Matic Wagons. And quite frankly do not believe they are losing money on those 1200 vehicles. I know the price point is different on a E 350 and a V 40, but so would be the volumes. And when you compare a 60K MB wagon to some of the prices Volvo is talking about the difference isn't that great.

Its the Volvo mindset, "we're going to rebuild the brand with five, maybe six volume models." "we're not getting into that rat-race." My perception is MB, BMW, and Audi are willing to battle it out for each point of market share. Volvo with admittedly few resources says it is going to go another direction. Personally I think Volvo is wrong. They don't have to design models to meet each and every model offered by the Germans, but if it is in the world wide inventory, they should bring it in.

Think about this...
Why is the BMW 328xi the only wagon you can get in the US? BMW offers plenty of other wagon choices in Europe.
Why is the MB E Class the only Wagon you can get in the US? MB offers plenty of other wagon choices in Europe.
Why is the Audi Allroad the only wagon you can get in the US? Audi offers plenty of other wagons in Europe?

 

[adp]

Think about this...
Why is the BMW 328xi the only wagon you can get in the US? BMW offers plenty of other wagon choices in Europe.
Why is the MB E Class the only Wagon you can get in the US? MB offers plenty of other wagon choices in Europe.
Why is the Audi Allroad the only wagon you can get in the US? Audi offers plenty of other wagons in Europe?

er..because of a global conspiracy headed by Mr. Subaru?

 

[USER12JAN17]

Think about this...
Why is the BMW 328xi the only wagon you can get in the US? BMW offers plenty of other wagon choices in Europe.
Why is the MB E Class the only Wagon you can get in the US? MB offers plenty of other wagon choices in Europe.
Why is the Audi Allroad the only wagon you can get in the US? Audi offers plenty of other wagons in Europe?

Are you trying to make my point for me? What you are saying is MB, Audi, and BMW all bring in a true wagons, as does Acura, and Volvo brings in a truck, the XC70. Hidden in your post is there an explanation of why Volvo brings in that truck instead of the true wagon? BMW brings in its smaller wagon, MB brings in its larger wagon, Audi brings in a soft off road wagon. Pretty clever. If Volvo had marketing smarts like that they would have more than .3% market share in the US. It strikes me when you have .3% market share everything you say can and will be used against you. There's no credibility in VCNA's marketing.

 

[P50GT]

Are you trying to make my point for me? What you are saying is MB, Audi, and BMW all bring in a true wagons, as does Acura, and Volvo brings in a truck, the XC70. Hidden in your post is there an explanation of why Volvo brings in that truck instead of the true wagon? BMW brings in its smaller wagon, MB brings in its larger wagon, Audi brings in a soft off road wagon. Pretty clever. If Volvo had marketing smarts like that they would have more than .3% market share in the US. It strikes me when you have .3% market share everything you say can and will be used against you. There's no credibility in VCNA's marketing.

The point is that they all only bring one wagon to the US. Why are you holding Volvo to some higher standard? Volvo already has the V60 in the US. The next generation of V40 will be a global vehicle.

 

[goVolvo]

The point is that they all only bring one wagon to the US. Why are you holding Volvo to some higher standard? Volvo already has the V60 in the US. The next generation of V40 will be a global vehicle.

Coz Volvo is better known for its wagon, not sedan, not SUV.

 

[P50GT]

Coz Volvo is better known for its wagon, not sedan, not SUV.

Companies have to adapt to the market. Was Porsche known for SUV's a decade ago? Their top two selling vehicles now are SUV's.

 

[madden]

Volvo needs more variety, period. People like choices, e.g. my brother loved my new V60P and he decided to trade in his 2 year old Ford Explorer on a new Volvo V60RD, once he got to the dealer he decided he liked the greater room of the XC70 T6 better, so he bought that instead. He loves it. My wife is in the market for a new car to replace her Audi A3, she wanted to know if Volvo still made the "cute' little car (C30) because that's what she wanted to buy, sorry, no, that's been discontinued. "Why did they do that?" Umm, it didn't sell well. "does Volvo have any other small cars?" No. She will end up buying an S3 most likely. If a V40 was available she would consider that, she likes a smaller platform. A S3 is 40K+, tell me Volvo can't sell a V40 profitably for that with like performance.

 

[P50GT]

Volvo needs more variety, period. People like choices, e.g. my brother loved my new V60P and he decided to trade in his 2 year old Ford Explorer on a new Volvo V60RD, once he got to the dealer he decided he liked the greater room of the XC70 T6 better, so he bought that instead. He loves it. My wife is in the market for a new car to replace her Audi A3, she wanted to know if Volvo still made the "cute' little car (C30) because that's what she wanted to buy, sorry, no, that's been discontinued. "Why did they do that?" Umm, it didn't sell well. "does Volvo have any other small cars?" No. She will end up buying an S3 most likely. If a V40 was available she would consider that, she likes a smaller platform. A S3 is 40K+, tell me Volvo can't sell a V40 profitably for that with like performance.

Volvo is going to sell a V40. They are just going to do it on the new platform. They absolutely need to fill this part of the segment, I don't think anyone is arguing that. The argument is that it is not cost effective to go back to retrofit the old platform for US standards.

These are the 40 Series plans: "In 2018, we also get a new car called the XC40, followed by the V40 and S40 in 2019. These cars will be based on their new, Swedish-developed CMA platform that will also be used by Geely in China. Expect three-cylinder turbo power as well, plus mechanical all-wheel drive instead of the electric drive you get in bigger Volvos." More in my other thread http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?225847-Volvo-just-released-product-plans-until-2019-Anyone-want-to-speculate-on-next-gen-Polestar-products&highlight=2019

 

[TG]

Volvo is going to sell a V40. They are just going to do it on the new platform. They absolutely need to fill this part of the segment, I don't think anyone is arguing that. The argument is that it is not cost effective to go back to retrofit the old platform for US standards.

That sounds like excuses... The V40 could have been developed for the US as well from the get go, and most of the development cost of the current one would have already been taken care and the cost to bring it would have been small-ish.

Your arguments makes no sense. "They absolutely need to fill this part of the segment" vs "Bringing the V40 over would have been a mistake. As much as I love my V60, it has not been a sales success. In fact, it is doing pretty poorly. Americans continue to buy crossovers and SUV's over wagons."

People forget that SUVs don't sale themselves. Car makers have been hugely responsible to brand a lifestyle appeal to SUVs. Tons of marketing $$$ poured into SUV marketing. As a whole they control in part what sales and what does not. The idea that you constantly look at past sales in a market segment to determined future trends is always flaw. Make a product irresistible, market it well, and you can easily have a winner (well competition aside ).
A lot of those decisions have more to do with where company margins falls and how much they truly believe in what they do. XC90 is an good example of that. That's why car makers love to sale bigger vehicles. Plus why make an extra effort when SUV is the easy answer. The only issue is that there are still a lot of people who don't need or want big vehicles for daily driving, it could be a second vehicle, a single person, child's car, urban life style, retired income conservation .. the list goes on, and has not necessarily an attachment to demographic group if it wasn't for what is sold.

I still believe premium brand don't know how to market a small premium car in the US and that's why they struggle with them. They can't get out of their mind that size doesn't have to be the primary factor to premium. That they appeal to young people because they think they are for young people, etc... They tend to treat small cars like down size versions of the big ones. So they don't put a lot of trust in the product development, they don't do the creative work to understand those varied users, they don't invest much in marketing efforts for them, and those cars end up not being too successful in comparison to more economical options. So what do they do, they look to past sale data and say to themselves, I told you so. . . and that's why the V40 (or alike) is not sold in the US until it becomes an after thought of a car model line-up.

 

[P50GT]

That sounds like excuses... The V40 could have been developed for the US as well from the get go, and most of the development cost of the current one would have already been taken care and the cost to bring it would have been small-ish.

Your arguments makes no sense. "They absolutely need to fill this part of the segment" vs "Bringing the V40 over would have been a mistake. As much as I love my V60, it has not been a sales success. In fact, it is doing pretty poorly. Americans continue to buy crossovers and SUV's over wagons."

People forget that SUVs don't sale themselves. Car makers have been hugely responsible to brand a lifestyle appeal to SUVs. Tons of marketing $$$ poured into SUV marketing. As a whole they control in part what sales and what does not. The idea that you constantly look at past sales in a market segment to determined future trends is always flaw. Make a product irresistible, market it well, and you can easily have a winner (well competition aside ).
A lot of those decisions have more to do with where company margins falls and how much they truly believe in what they do. XC90 is an good example of that. That's why car makers love to sale bigger vehicles. Plus why make an extra effort when SUV is the easy answer. The only issue is that there are still a lot of people who don't need or want big vehicles for daily driving, it could be a second vehicle, a single person, child's car, urban life style, retired income conservation .. the list goes on, and has not necessarily an attachment to demographic group if it wasn't for what is sold.

I still believe premium brand don't know how to market a small premium car in the US and that's why they struggle with them. They can't get out of their mind that size doesn't have to be the primary factor to premium. That they appeal to young people because they think they are for young people, etc... They tend to treat small cars like down size versions of the big ones. So they don't put a lot of trust in the product development, they don't do the creative work to understand those varied users, they don't invest much in marketing efforts for them, and those cars end up not being too successful in comparison to more economical options. So what do they do, they look to past sale data and say to themselves, I told you so. . . and that's why the V40 (or alike) is not sold in the US until it becomes an after thought of a car model line-up.

You are confusing what I am saying. I said it would have been a mistake to bring the V40 over at that time because wagons were not selling well in the US. I just think that trying to alter the existing platform to meet US standards now is not going to be cost effective. That is all that I am saying.

Quick question for someone that has actually been in a new V40...how much utility does it really have? I find that my V60 is really lacking on the utility front because of the sloped roofline compared to the V70's so going any smaller is there really any purpose in having a wagon?

 

[GrecianVolvo]

You are confusing what I am saying. I said it would have been a mistake to bring the V40 over at that time because wagons were not selling well in the US. I just think that trying to alter the existing platform to meet US standards now is not going to be cost effective. That is all that I am saying.

Quick question for someone that has actually been in a new V40...how much utility does it really have? I find that my V60 is really lacking on the utility front because of the sloped roofline compared to the V70's so going any smaller is there really any purpose in having a wagon?

The V40 is very similar to the V60; its main difference is the trunk space...slightly less than the V60.

I had one for 3 weeks, last summer; 4 of us (2 adults and 2 boys 10 to 14 years old) plus 2 medium suitcases and 3 carry ons. Drove 2,400 miles without any trouble or feeling squeezed. Could we have used a bit more cargo room? Sure. However, we had a great time driving around, interior room was perfect, it was a great touring little car. It was a V40 T5 AWD Cross Country (5-cyl, 2.0L Turbo).

 

[brissim]

The V40 is very similar to the V60; its main difference is the trunk space...slightly less than the V60....................

Pretty much sums it up. The passenger compartments are similar in size - ie legroom, headroom pretty much the same ; V60 basically 2" more shoulder room. The luggage space is 324l on the V40/V40CC and 430l on the V60 - ie V60 30% larger.

Might have some relevance to this discussion on how the V40 would go in the US market, but its biggest drawback here in Australia is its pricing. A V60 is only about 10-15% more expensive then a similarly engined (Drive-E T5) and equipped V40. Price-wise the V40 T5 R-Design its fairly lineball with similarly engined competitors - the BMW 125i and MB A250. The BMW in particular is simply a better car to drive. Its no surprise the V40 is not a great seller in its market segment. Volvo sales-wise, the V40/V40CC lags behind the "leaders" XC60, S60 & V60. I think even the old XC90 on its runout sales outsells the V40.

Tony

 

[Adrian-C30R]

Are you trying to make my point for me? What you are saying is MB, Audi, and BMW all bring in a true wagons, as does Acura, and Volvo brings in a truck, the XC70.

Are we just going to pretend that the V60 and V60CC don't exist then? So that way you can still be right in your own little world (somewhere where the XC70 is classified as a "truck"...)? Okay then....

 

[Johann]

The V40 is very similar to the V60; its main difference is the trunk space...slightly less than the V60.

I can't agree with you here.. The V40 is considerably smaller compared to the V60. Behind the steering wheel the difference isn't that big but the space in the rear is cramped in the V40 and slightly better in the V60. With my length there doesn't fit a person behind the driver seat in the V40. Not even a child.