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Oils 'aint oils...Oil for the new XC90 petrol engine

13K views 64 replies 22 participants last post by  XTZnig  
#1 ·
Disclaimer:
I'm neither a Mechanic, Scientist (petroChemical) or sponsored by any of the brands mentioned below.
I'm simply a DatabaseEngineer/DataAnalyst that has a passion for Oil and a passion for sharing knowledge.
Happy for people to point out errors in the information I've gathered, provided it's backed up with links so we can all benefit.

Cutting to the Chase

Volvo and Castrol partnered up in the development of the Oil required for the XC90's SuperCharged/TurboCharged B4204T27.
Other major brands took on this same approach a few years back and made vehicle specific oils.
The resulting oil for the engine is this:
SAE 0W-20 grade.
And coded like this:
VCC RBS0-2AE
You can read the product file here.
Not just any 0W-20 will do. Jaguar/Land Rover make their own specific 0W-20 oil as do Audi, Volkswagen and Ford.

I have found two other brands that meet this exact requirement for Volvo:
Liqui-Moly Special Tec V 0W-20 with the product brochure here. The "V" refers to Volvo
Eurol EUROL ULTRANCE VCC 0W-20 with the product brochure here.

Essentially, that is all we really need to know.

However, because the US have a differently documented specification, a minimum requirement was laid out.
This minimum requirement is:
5W-30 grade which meet the standard ACEA A5/B5. Rather than tell you what ACEA means, here's a link to the document that lays it out.

Penzoil make an oil that meets this requirement here.
Castrol makes one here.

In the US, they also recommend the VCC RBS0-2AE 0W-20 grade for use in extreme conditions (Towing is given as an example of extreme).

Now for the boring stuff...read on at your own peril

What's not widely known (because it's as boring as bat s#!t) is that 5W-30 from one company, isn't exactly the same as 5W-30 from another...in-fact, even within companies they are different.

See here for an example of oils from Castrol. What you'll see when you drill down and compare like-graded oils is that Pour points, 40ºC and 100ºC Viscosities and the all important Viscosity Index are all different.
Here's why the Viscosity Index is important.
The Higher the VI, the better the oil.
Here's a VI Calculator. Low Viscosity at 40ºC and a high at 100ºC will give you a higher VI.

It's the lower viscosity that comes into play at start up and the first couple of minutes of driving. I've heard this is where most engine damage occurs.
The higher numbers are also important, especially in an advanced engine like the B4204T27. If at operating temperature, lubrication is compromised, failure will occur.
The thicker the oil at operating temperatures, the harder it is to get to the essential parts of the motor - Cylinder walls, pistons, bearings, cam shafts....
But, it's a balancing act too. As too thin at operating temps, it'll just burn away.

Rather than me tell you what the numbers and letters mean, go to here. It's a long read...sorry.

I've put together a spreadsheet which shows the comparisons between the 3 above mentioned VCC rated oils (and one ACEA A5/B5 0W-30) more clearly. I'll post that after.
I'll do the same with a couple of 5W-30 spec'd oils too.

The short of it
I'd simply go with the VCC RBSO-2AE 0W-20 oil.
If it was easy to get, I'd go with the Liqui-Moly...but that's only my own personal choice.
I've never used Eurol and have never been a fan of Castrol (Apparently though, European Castrol is better than what we get here).
The service garage charged me over $200 for the Castrol oil today...3 years free servicing though, so thankfully someone else picked up the tab.
It (the price) is an important consideration. The Penzoil mentioned earlier is well priced...I'm just not certain whether it really is suited though, even though it's within the minimum spec.

For what it's worth
I've worked on my own cars since I was 16. I made mistakes early on that cost me an engine or two - one was a 1962 EJ Holden Premier that I bought from my Great Grandmother (She'd bought it new!).
That'd be worth around $25K-@35K now...biggest regret of my life was selling that beast. Best back seats ever 😉
I do all my own servicing and put $80-$100 oil in now. I'd rather save the labour and put in the best oil I can afford.
Currently, the Toyota RAV 4 gets fully synthetic Motul 0W-20 and it runs like a dream.
I also never skimp on brakes or rotors because it always ends up as false economy and of course, safety is paramount.

And Finally...

An ad from the 80's in Australia:
 
#2 ·
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#3 ·
man Volvo is SO close to having to provide free oil changes it is not even funny. You can run afoul of US law by making a vehicle that requires such a specific fluids that are virtually unobtanium. BMW just about got into this so that's a large reason they cover all your maintenance under warranty. Volvo sorta does this up to 30k.
 
#8 ·
You can run afoul of US law by making a vehicle that requires such a specific fluids that are virtually unobtanium.
I figured it was something to do with your laws and thanks for pointing it out. As I know about 4/10ths of stuff all regarding that field, I left it out...

It's a double edged sword though I think. It keeps the Car manufacturers honest by opening up the required oil to a more varied choice, but if the minimum requirements are used and engine failures occur, then it hasn't really worked out well for anyone.

Car manufacturers are caught between:
Customer desires - powerful engine that is fuel efficient
Government regulations - low emissions...
To throw in a Monopoly/AntiTrust type caveat on top of this adds that extra bit of complexity.
 
#10 ·
Thanks for this. It's well priced even after our conversion from US to AUD...shipping is obviously an extra, and to Aust, may be a deal breaker ?

But for your US Customers, a great price ($62.00 for the required amount....We could say that's about $40 bucks worth of Insurance per service?)
I'd pay that.
 
#9 ·
Thanks for this ?
 
#6 ·
Thanks for the analysis.

I'll probably stick with Pennzoil since I can get it for $22/jug at the local Walmart. Meets volvo spec for the USA.
 
#7 ·
Yep - I totally understand that. It's well priced and fits the specified requirements

I started this thread out of concern that this current engine has noted/documented failures...I've only heard of failures from the US where the oil spec is different (If there are others out there from elsewhere, could someone please link in the reference).
These failures have been put down to Spark Plug failure. Without being able to look at the data on the spark plugs though and determine which oil was in these failed engines...I am only hypothesising.
The correctly specified and specially developed VCC oil, whilst more expensive, may ultimately save your engine.
 
#13 ·
If it is Low Grade fuel, causing the Spark degradation, then that closes the oil debate and opens up the opportunity to select from a wider variety of oils.
That would be a good thing.
 
#14 ·
Many/most/likely all manufacturers with modern gasoline direct injection and turbo/superchargers have been struggling with low speed pre ignition for the past few years. This is due to an ever increasing attempt at astonishing fuel economy.

There have been millions of dollars spent by manufacturers, private testing organizations, governing bodies and the like, with no specific, blanket cause or conclusion.

That being said, oil has been considered a very likely culprit, as gdi has a different effect on the oil in the combustion chamber than traditional port injection. This is why all these new, specific oils and ever changing categories (dexos, sn, etc).

The original Volvo plug for the VEP engine had a longer porcelain insulator on the electrode than the replacement that is being put in as part of this service action. The new one has more exposed electrode and the porcelain surrounding it is shielded by the threaded shaft of the plug.

Most, if not all of these engines have and will experience LSPI and knocking, the plug isn't designed to fix it, but to be less susceptible to damage during those events.

So, your oil theory is not off base, and I would be interested to see if there's any feedback from the non-US people about any issues seen.
 
#16 ·
Many/most/likely all manufacturers with modern gasoline direct injection and turbo/superchargers have been struggling with low speed pre ignition for the past few years. This is due to an ever increasing attempt at astonishing fuel economy.

There have been millions of dollars spent by manufacturers, private testing organizations, governing bodies and the like, with no specific, blanket cause or conclusion.

That being said, oil has been considered a very likely culprit, as gdi has a different effect on the oil in the combustion chamber than traditional port injection. This is why all these new, specific oils and ever changing categories (dexos, sn, etc).

The original Volvo plug for the VEP engine had a longer porcelain insulator on the electrode than the replacement that is being put in as part of this service action. The new one has more exposed electrode and the porcelain surrounding it is shielded by the threaded shaft of the plug.

Most, if not all of these engines have and will experience LSPI and knocking, the plug isn't designed to fix it, but to be less susceptible to damage during those events.

So, your oil theory is not off base, and I would be interested to see if there's any feedback from the non-US people about any issues seen.
Wow. Thank you for this informative reply. [emoji3]
Critical without being criticising too. Appreciated muchly.
If anyone reading this thread hears of spark plug issues outside the US, please let us know.

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#22 · (Edited)
So do we know what the dealers are using for our free oil changes? The Castrol?
The service department I went to, stocks the Castrol RBSO-2AE oil and they charged me.....wait for it.....

drum rollllllllll.....

$231.88...that's $38+ per litre ex GST.
It made me blaspheme. 😉

Not including the labour (+$360.00!!!)....not including the filter (the filter was +$34.82 bwhahaha)

JUST THE OIL...

Free servicing meant it cost me nothing - other the research to make sure I can Service this puppy myself when the time comes. Thanks to [stick_shift] and his post here:
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?539386-SPA-XC90-DIY-Oil-Change-with-pics&highlight=diy

BTW - I had a great chat with the service tech manager who oversaw the work on the car. He looks after the Aston Martins and a little bit on the Land Rovers. He'd worked on some track cars over the weekend at the opening of a new track just out of Adelaide.
I took him for a spin and he was blown away...He said it felt much better (more powerful) than the Land Rover 3.0litre Twin Turbo'd diesel. He was very impressed.
I explained to him my story of the sand on the Oil Cap too...he agreed it was "p!55 poor"...but I won't even start that lineage of commentary here...whoa, it'll get me into hot water.

Thanks for this. Interesting that it meets the VCC RBSO-2AE spec but only meets ACEA A1/B1, not the A5/B5.

It's sits at the lower end of the spec going through their product data sheet (as an example, the Liqui-Moly exceeds A5/B5 and gets into C4 territory) but thanks again for finding it. I'll add it to my spreadsheet.
 
#28 ·
If you would like to know more, this site explains how the octane numbers can be determined using a test engine:
http://www.vintagebonanza.com/octane.htm
Howwever, the link to the test engine is dead, use this link instead:http://www.waukeshacfr.com/f1-f2/
These test engines are really impressive, we have several of them, one "super" model for the MTBE unit
which produces high-octane fuel of about 135 RON.
 
#38 ·
That is not necessarily true. The old oil and the new oil can have a difference in viscosity after xx miles have elapsed. That can give the impression that the engine more freely revs. I used to feel this in my NSX that was a 3.2 liter engine. Sometimes I would run a 0W-5 oil and the engine would rev very quickly versus a 5w-30 oil. My engine only put out <300 hp with 3.2 liters (without mods) versus our 2.0 liter putting out 316 hp. So we are talking about a very high performance engine that would be sensitive to viscosity changes.
 
owns 2025 Volvo EX90 Ultra
#37 ·
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#39 ·
Amazon has the Liquid Moly Special Tech V 0W-20 for $39 plus free delivery prime members. I have had some experience with spark plugs in that they can make a really big difference in detonation issues. With my supercharged NSX 3.2 liter engine, I would run premium but not without detonation problems. I could eliminate the detonation with 100 octane racing fuel but at $9 or $10 a gallon that got expensive given that was my daily driver. I experimented with various plugs and ended up with a relatively cold plug that stopped the early wear on the electrode and seemed to minimize the detonation issue. I ended up experimenting with probably 5 sets of plugs over a couple of months. When I ran the car on a dyno I was around 400 hp at the wheels. I have had friends who have with turbos taken the NSX up to 750 hp. Reliability definitely goes down.

:https://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-2...46c9-8920-433972c7d9b7&pf_rd_r=WFTHXYFVWZ9392VMKDQV&qid=1558362076&s=automotive
 
owns 2025 Volvo EX90 Ultra
#40 ·
#42 ·
That is an unbelievable deal.
We pay $80AUD for 5ltrs...and I couldn't get a 1ltr bottle here (easily) - I had to buy 2@5ltr bottles. That's why I said mine was $100 as the remaining 4.1ltrs is waiting patiently for its turn

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#48 ·
Thanks, Inteller. I never thought to look up AKI, but with your encouragement, I did. Enjoy![emoji3166]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

I like the country by country and regional differences and explanations.

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#46 ·
Hi @gary....
@zahra had pointed that out earlier on in the piece too. RON v MON difference


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#47 ·
BTW @gary, thanks for the extra info too [emoji106]

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#51 ·
Flushed the Penzoil for the Liquimoly + Ceratec today. Did a bonehead move and didn't notice the oil not draining thru the funnel properly and spilled oil down the motor onto the ground [emoji2363]

So, I took this as a opportunity to get to know the engine better. So I removed the engine cover, sprayed some engine cleaner and hosed the engine down a couple times.

Removed the lower engine cover to clean with soap & water. Let it dry...

Wiped the engine down with a clean shop cloth and reassembled. So the tough part was trying to figure out how much oil spilled onto the ground. Really missing a dip stick. So, i guessed 1 liter.... included that with the remaining oil and crossed my fingers. Oil level reads full after running a couple errands and driving 20 miles to the Baltimore Inner Harbor.

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#55 ·
Thanks for the reassurance @gunshow

Volvo’s have historically been very reliable. Friends of mine had one that clicked over 400000kms without missing a beat

In the new SPA xc90 range, US is the only country that has a different spec’d oil viscosity range and they’re also the only country with failed spark plugs and engine failures.

Maybe oil is the link, maybe not.

IMO, it’s worth consideration


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#58 ·
Thanks for the reassurance @gunshow

Volvo's have historically been very reliable. Friends of mine had one that clicked over 400000kms without missing a beat

In the new SPA xc90 range, US is the only country that has a different spec'd oil viscosity range and they're also the only country with failed spark plugs and engine failures.

Maybe oil is the link, maybe not.

IMO, it's worth consideration

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Spark plug heat range was the changed hence the recall on earlier models. According to Volvo, oil was causing cool spots on top of the piston and causing the spark plugs to fail.

You think I didn't already know that young fella? I'm not sure what the big deal is... maybe you're making a profound statement amongst your circle... idk.

Just an oil change... [emoji52]

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Young? I wish. But whatever makes you feel smarter.