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Leaking Fuel Injector 1971 1800E

2.8K views 12 replies 4 participants last post by  Jeff Schmitz  
#1 ·
After warming up the engine a week or so ago, I noticed that one of my fuel injectors was leaking, I get one 1-2 small droplets every second while the engine is running. There is no leak when the engine is off. See below:
Image


Using the IPD Fuel Injector Seal Kit I replaced the Damper Ring (upper) and the Seal Ring (lower) and the leak persists. I moved the leaking fuel injector to a different port and the issue follows the injector. The leak appear to be coming up from the injector port and not from a leak in the fuel line attachment from the fuel rail.

I pulled a working injector as a comparison and noticed that the black coating on the injector was disintegrating, im guessing its cause its been sitting in fuel for awhile.

See below (leaking injector left, working right)

Image


Im a novice mechanic and looking for what the best next step should be and if I should replace the injector completely, and if so, what is a good site for buying fuel injector parts (aside from an Ebay search)

Thanks in advance!
 
#2 · (Edited)
Fox;

Deterioration of coatings in the lower area is obvious and indisputable, but I don't believe it has much if anything to do with the leak, which from the first pic, is clearly way above that, and so more likely at the supply hose to Injector interface hose-barb/crimp, and this is not unusual, given the age of the components.

30PSI is present in the supply Rail any time the Fuel Pump is powered, and even after it is depowered (until it leaks down!), and these shorty hoses which are a "permanently" crimped-on part of the Injector must seal against this pressure. These hoses do deteriorate with age, but replacement of the entire Injector is not the only solution. Kits are available for redoing these...I have bought such a kit with which to redo all four Injectors, but have not yet undertaken and documented the operation.

I recommend Cleaning/Flushing/Lubing all Injectors while they are removed, then renewing the Supply Hoses...from my notes, here is a very good vid for the former: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ44_QyoXiM

...and although I have not yet done the operation, I think this video shows Supply Hose removal well:

Source for the hose kit I got was:
Hose End Injector Rebuild Kit

Disclaimer: I have no relationship with any of these links, and give this info strictly as help. Work carefully, and let us know how you make out or other hands-on details...

When installing Injectors back into Cyl Head, use new Seals, or at least seals ones which have been checked and verified not to have lost their compliance and turned rock-hard (to prevent vac leaks), and install thermal isolators washers on Injector mounts if you are in a geographical (hot) area where hot-starting after heat-soak is particularly difficult!

I expect that will address your fuel leak, and significantly improve your gas-mileage!

Cheers
 
#3 · (Edited)
It is not clear to me from the photo where the exact source of the leak is; but, like Ron advises I would check to make sure that the fuel is not leaking from the hose connection where it is crimped to the injector. Remove the injector from the from the holder; but leave connected to the fuel rail. You will probably need to pull all four injectors out of their holders to do this without bending the fuel rail. Wipe clean and dry off the outside of the injector then pressurize the fuel system by turning the ignition on to run the pump through its prime cycle. Then closely inspect the injector to see where the fuel is emerging from. If it is emerging from the base of the hose where it crimps to the injector body, as Ron notes that is easily repairable. If it is emerging from the seam between the blue plastic top and the metal lower body part my recommendation is replacement.

For replacing the hose, you need something like a dremel tool with a cut off wheel to slice the metal crimp lengthwise on the hose. Once the crimp is mostly cut through the clamping pressure is relieved and the hose should pull off the injector body. If you want the injector to look exactly like original, you can take the injector to a hydraulics shop and they should be able to attach a new section of hose with a compression fitting. If you don't need to be original, the injector end fitting is barbed and you can shove a length of 5/16" hose on to the injector stub and clamp it with a banded clamp just like it is clamped on the fuel rail end. Use a good quality fuel line made for fuel injection systems. I have been through at least three iterations of not so good fuel injection hose. I am currently using Gates Barricade MPI hose which has proven to be the most durable hose so far (3+ years without leaking). I have heard that Cohline makes very good fuel injection hose; but, it is rather hard to source and have no direct experience with it.

If it turns out that the injector is leaking from the hose stub you might want to consider replacing the other three injector hose stubs because those hoses are likely near the end of their life. If you do that, you might want to consider sending all four injectors off to someone like RC Fuel Injection Services
RC Fuel Injection
Check their services. I believe that if you send a barb style injector like yours to them for cleaning they can (or will) replace the hose stub with a new stub. Cleaned injectors with new hose stubs will always be a good thing.

If it turns out that the injector is leaking from that body seam I recommend a trip to the trash can. Beck Arnley makes an exact replacement for the original Bosch injectors. The part number is 158-0438. This injector is an exact match in every way except for the color. Rock Auto sells them for around $52 US$ and you can find them listed as low as $46 at some Amazon vendors. I have been using four of these injectors on my B20E since 2015. At the price of the new Beck Arnley injectors, you have a "Do I send them out for cleaning versus just replace them?" decision.

Ron is also correct that you should, as a minimum, replace the pintle seal (the one on the injector tip). If it is more than a couple of years old it will not reseal once it has been disturbed. The Volvo part # is 419785. Replacement of the the large rubber cushion / ring around the injector body will not hurt - part # 419784. If you don't disturb the aluminum injector holder that is bolted to the head the O ring under that holder should be OK. If you disturb the injector holder then that O ring must be replaced. Lots of silicone spray oil or grease applied to the pintle seal and retainer ring will make it 'easier' to reinstall the injector in its holder.

Ron makes reference to thermal isolator washers. This was a refit to B20E and B20F engines to help with a hot restart problem. This picture shows the refit
Image



Parts 38a and 38 are the refit kit. 38a is a phenolic washer (part # 962658) and 38 (part 960218) is a fatter O ring to accommodate the addition of 38a below the holder. This refit kit can improve starting problems (not eliminate them) when re starting a hot engine on a hot day. You don't need to do the refit; but, if you want to be able to restart a hot engine on a hot day it is a good idea.

These parts are available from VP Auto
Fuel injection P1800E/ES 1970-73 | VP Autoparts (vp-autoparts.com)

You may also be able to find them at the following

CVI Start - We ship worldwide! (cvi-automotive.se)
Skandix SKANDIX - Your quality choice in Volvo and Saab car parts
Scandcar Classic volvo parts (classic-volvo.com)
Iroll Motors
IPDUSA
All of the above are all Volvo specialist suppliers and I have used them with good results. RockAuto may also have the parts so they are also worth a try.
 
#4 ·
Thanks guys for the feedback. Really appreciate the information

I am going to replace the hose stub and see if that fixes the problem. I will also be picking up some rebuild kits and a couple injectors to have on hand for the future.

Half the issue I have is making sure I am getting the right parts from quality vendors. So I appreciate the links.

Will post an update in a couple weeks once parts arrive.
 
#5 ·
Go here and you can find the parts manuals for early and later (B20) versions of the 1800
Parts – Volvo 1800 Pictures and global register
Find the part number you need. The VP, Skandix, CVI and Scandcar websites all have search functions. Type in the the 6 digit part number in the search bar. Don't include the decimal and the extension after the decimal on the part number. None of the vendors use the extension and it screws up the search function. The search function will take you directly to the part if they have it.

When looking at the parts manual for parts, always check for footnotes. Those are multi year parts books so you need to watch out for production changes (and part # change) which will usually be noted by a VIN range.
 
#6 ·
Good news. Got the new injector in from Rock Auto this afternoon and did a 1:1 for swap with the leaky injector and all is right in the world again. I will swap out the other three once I get some more new seals in about a week.

Thanks again for the responses guys, helped a lot an d learned a bit!
 
#8 · (Edited)
Fox;

The left Inj in your pic has no plastic Pintle Cap, and without it, the Pintle does not protrude, as it would in the ...036 Inj if PC were removed... so is clearly a different design than oe OE ...036 Inj on the right, where the PC protects the protruding Pintle.

With the ...036, if you were to remove the PC (or it is partially broken [Reds] see pic), the Pintle visibly protrudes about 3/16", and the Seal as you show in your pic, would not be able to be installed...

Image

Source: Pic from as yet unreleased SW-EM D-Jet Tech Article I'm still working on...

...I guess the Rock Auto replacements are slightly different, and do not have that PC...but with that design, the Seal MUST still be present and snugly fit on the metal part (it does look dimensionally the same as the ...036 Inj, but without a PC, so it should), because without it, there would be a vauum leak! ...but as you report...if it works, it works, so I would say its not a "problem"...just be certain you can fit the Seal, it it does its intended job!

Cheers
 
#9 ·
Ron et al

The Beck Arnley injector is not a pintle valve style injector. Like just about all new port injectors it is a disc design with no protruding pintle valve. As I recall, the BA injectors actually have 3 ports on the injector. Despite having three ports, in my testing the visible spray pattern was, as far as could be visually determined, identical to the spray pattern of the single pintle valve Bosch injector. The diameter of the BA injector tip is identical to the diameter of the Bosch plastic cap so you do get a proper seal with the injector tip seals.

So not visually identical; but, functionally identical in terms of performance.

A long time ago I removed the injectors on my B20E to check for a drooling injector causing rich running at idle and harder than normal hot starts. On pulling the injectors. one of the caps was missing so presumably the cap had at some point broken / fallen off during operation and had eventually passed in to the combustion chamber. So, actually I am kind of happy that the BA injectors are not visually identical to the Bosch injectors because I no longer have to worry about that plastic cap dropping off during engine operation.
 
#10 ·
142 Guy; Thanks for clarification! The Pintle Caps included with the rebuild kit I got have a snug/interference fit, so I expect/sure hope, they will stay in place...although functionally, they do little once the Injector is place...before that, they do protect the protruding and vulnerable Pintle.

Fox; I did just today posted a new Tech Article: SW-EM D-Jet Injector Maintenance and Service Notes ...you might find informative.

Cheers
 
#11 ·
On the subject of part numbers and extensions, ie dash this or that. Most time it probably won't matter but for those repairing the injector installations on these B20 engines (and a LOT of other Volvo engines it turns out) the part number for the Pertinax/Phenolic/fiber thermal isolating washer is a case where the dash number (962658-1) does make a difference. Sort of. Google Searching for 962658 by itself will most of the time return a washer for several Volvo Alternator bracket installations. Probably metal and NOT what you need. 962658-1 at VP Autoparts does get you the correct washer (plus an unrelated thermostat housing) even calling out with the correct functional description. You need 2 washers per injector, 8 per B20. They also have the correct thicker O Ring that the IPC calls out as item 38 but lists two numbers. 4 of them needed. 960168-3 is the correct, thicker Oring to go along with the Pertinax washer, it corrects for the buildup of .015 introduced by the Pertinax washer between the head and the aluminum housing. The other pertinax washer goes on the top of the housing, the goal being to minimize the heat transfer to the injector from the very hot combination exhaust manifold below.
FWIW when I replaced the OEM, thin O'rings under the injector housing I found the picture attached. Note the cracks facing each other in the center Orings. The retrofit kit of the Pertinax washers, thicker orings, new BeckArnley injectors and the difference is truly dramatic. Runs smoother, the hot start issue is gone so far here in Anchorage, Ak and the surge at part throttle is gone.
 

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#12 · (Edited)
Jim;

Thanks for your detailed documentation...I would like to point out that the temperature reached by the Injectors after shutdown is a function of both conduction and hot air coming up from the manifold...but I believe more by the former (heat transfer by conduction is always more effective because it is a LOT more efficient to transfer heat by contact that by hot air flowing by...think density!) ...so I need to point out that the main purpose of the pertinax washers is to reduce conducted heat into the Injectors from the hot Cyl Head after shutdown...I can't see how they would do much of anything to decrease the heating by the hot air flowing by ...the pertinax washers do little to reduce the heating by the hot air flowing up from the exhaust Manifold below by convection...(in another thread, an owner has addressed this with a fan to help move the air!) ...when it comes to reducing heatsoak, I guess every little bit helps!

I would say that if it's hot, and I suspect I have a hot-start issue, and I'm only going into a store for 5 or 10 minutes, then coming out and wanting to restart (probably the worst-case hot-start condition), I'll just unlatch the hood to the first position to allow the hot air out instead of letting it stagnate under the hood and heatsoak things...then, upon my return, I can simply relatch the hood and restart... simple and no problemo on an 1800, because both unlatching and relatching can be done from the driver's seat!

Cheers
 
#13 ·
I agree with your points Ron and as with 142Guy, thank you so much for the tireless input to the community. I relied a lot on your work with the DJet system. I was really wanting to do do the injectors first then the Pertinax mod to see the individual effects but the practicality of already being that deep won the argument. As an aside, I'd done the hood unlatch trick too and on occasion just raised the hood entirely. Early on, 30 years ago I also replaced the viscous drive fan with a high flow fixed unit, then a year ago or so replaced the thermostat with a 165 deg F unit which helped the hot start issue somewhat. Going forward I am going to put in a heat baffle as 142Guy has done, it can only do good for the life of the injectors. I do wish I'd taken the time to go get some Viton versions of the 960168 O'rings for the better heat rating as the rubber ones will suffer much the same fate the originals did over time. BTW, I'm the one that did the fan hack, it was a total game changer at the time. If I lived in AZ here's what I'd do to these cars: 165 Deg thermostat. Remote oil cooler in the aircleaner cavity up front. Fixed fan. Heat baffle @ #2/3 Exhaust point. Muffing Fan Hack. Pertinax Mod. Viton Orings. Beck/Arnley Injectors. The last item may or may not equal a new set of Bosch '036 types but for as refined as my engine is now in all phases of operation the cost alone would be a show stopper. And I've yet to dive into replacing the spark plug wiring with modern silicone types or take out the DJet contact set for cleanup under the distributor.
A bit of a side note: I've had the car up for sale for a couple months due mostly to storage problems but have been picking away the issues it had like the hot start. As I've gone through the car and fixed some of the issues I've decided I'm going to keep it instead. It was always a real treat to drive and with fixing the fuel injection plus some exhaust work it's at a whole different level. I hope I've given back to the Volvo community some of what it's given to me.