I'd say the S60 is not luxury. It's above the average Asian cars and even a lot of BMWs. S90 looks like a different story.
Few brands are exclusively luxury, the rest have a range.

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It's all a spectrum. A Volvo S60 mid-size sedan is quite luxurious compared to a Kia Optima sedan. But not so much compared to a Bentley or Aston Martin sedan.

I would put them into categories like:

And I'd probably put Volvo in the middle of the Northwest rectangle of both those maps. At least, for the newer ones that seem to have some quality control issues.

 

S60 is entry level luxury, competing most closely with the Acura TLX in its current form IMO. Both are front drive based and priced at the value end of the spectrum. When S60 migrates to the SPA platform, I think it will compete more closely with the Audi A4 and be a step above the Acura TLX.

 

More than a step in both with what you get and the MSRP!
I would say that the NEW (SPA) Volvos would be considered "mid luxury+" bordering on being considered luxury, at the lower end of that spectrum!
With an average price of approx. $60K, THAT is real close to today's luxury car.
Over $80-$85K is still considered high end

 

There are videos on youtube doing the S60 vs the S5. The Volvo loses but its still talked about in the same breath. It is at least comparable to the A4. I wanted an A4 but when I drove the T6 the extra power sold me on it.

 

Its not just the car its also the dealership experience that classifies a car luxury status. The XC90 is luxury while the XC60, S60/V60 are near luxury and the S40 is entry level luxury. Acura is a premium brand not a luxury brand.

 

Thats a great way to look at it. Its those small things that take an ordinary car buying experience and turn it into a 'luxury' purchase. You notice this a lot in high end hifi as well. Things like the Polestar tune blue box also add to the whole luxury feel of the brand.

I picked my Volvo up from the same distributor as Maserati and Mclaren, and most times the service center has a Lamborghini in it. It was a very different purchase experience to that of my Renault, which was sold at the local Nissan dealer.

I think classifying a 'car' as luxury gets a bit blurred, a brand (and as an extension, purchase experience) is much easier to classify

 

The dealership can attempt to impress you all they want with their fanciness, and my car may have some luxurious features that are nice, but I would not consider a car as unrefined as my 2011 S60 T6 to be a luxury car. The transmission would be at home in a U-Haul truck, the stock suspension is pretty mediocre in that it neither imparts the supple ride of a luxury car nor the sporting chops of a sport sedan, the brakes are underpowered and not befitting a proper bahn stormer, and there are a few other rough edges that leave it about 10 years behind the level of refinement and feeling of class and modernity of a nicely equipped B8 A4. The biggest things that keep it from being a luxury car though are its levels of road noise and wind noise. Honestly the racket this car makes on the highway is completely unacceptable for a car in the luxury or near-luxury class. A luxury car should be relaxing and serene on the highway. I like the car overall, and it has decent style, speed, and character, but I would not have paid the ~$50k mine would have been had I purchased it new instead of for $23k on the very lightly used market. It was a hell of a nice used car for $23k though. I couldn't even get into a strippo used MK7 gti at that price point at the time.

 

But the could be any luxury car. The BMW 3 series isn't a very quiet car at all and depending on what model you get the suspension is very harsh. Look at the MB CLA cars, would you consider them luxury, I would not. The S/V60 are not high end luxury cars.

 

I agree with that. The V60 and S60 are basically Ford Mondeos, the undercarriage has FoMoCo stamped all over it. Volvo added a bunch of weight to the doors, some nice interior design touches (i love the waterfall), really good seats and a nice selection of engines. The engine and gearbox may have come a long way since the 2011 version though. I would never pay full price for one of these, but if you can get a CPO for a good price, you will struggle to find something as nice for the same money.

The SPA stuff is a different story though, very clever of Volvo to move up the price diamond as its getting impossible to compete in the middle. They have lost the top spot in their home country as a result, but i think that was always going to happen

 

Wait. I thought Ford took Volvo's platform when they bought them and spread it around Ford ,Lincoln and Jaguar.

 

I sure hope it's not based on dealership, because the two dealerships near me are owned by the same people and they are ****....

 

What is defined as luxury? I think at this point, we can't judge whether a vehicle is considered luxury or not simply by its brand. Take the Mercedes-Benz B Class and CLA for example. Those two vehicles are, in my opinion, more like an economy car with a Mercedes-Benz badge slapped on it. But if you look at the C Class and above, then those are truly luxury vehicles. At the other end of the spectrum, you can get a Honda Civic LX for $20k or a Honda Civic Touring for $30k. The Civic Touring is far more luxurious than the Acura ILX which Honda also produces and currently sells. If you say that's a bad example because they are two different generation of vehicles, how about $56k for a GMC Yukon or $82k for a GMC Yukon? Or the price difference between the cheapest Honda Odyssen and most expensive Honda Odyssey? I haven't sat in a base model vs the top of the line one but I think it's safe to say there aren't much difference between these kind of vehicles in terms of materials used. Sure the top of the line would have more equipment and luxurious features, but does it feel luxurious?

Ok if those are bad examples, then I'd argue the Mazda CX-9 is the best example of a luxurious car by a non-luxurious automaker. I have yet to see one in person but a lot of reviews I've read pretty much say the same thing: It's luxurious.

 

Yes Volvo is a luxury make. Period. If you wish to get technical, all it's models are categorized/classified in N. America and EU as luxury/premium. Whether or not you find a given model comparison, number of models offered, engine spec, dealer services, formula 1 participation, etc. as a disqualifier is completely besides the point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Car_classifications
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_executive_car

 

These kinds of definitions -- luxury, near-luxury, premium, etc. -- tend to be fluid, especially because much has to do with perception.

This is one reason the Japanese automakers created separate lines for their upscale (look -- another descriptor!) lines: Acura, Lexus, Inifniti. The idea was that it would be hard to sell a luxury Toyota, regardless of how good the car may be, because of the perception of a Toyota as an economy brand (remember this was the 1980s).

We're seeing this play out today with Hyundai. It launched the Hyundai Genesis back in 2007 in an attempt to move into the more expensive luxury market. While the Genesis was an very good sedan and has only improved over time, it has suffered from the perception that it's "just a Hyundai." Within the past year, Hyundai announced that Genesis will be spun off as a separate marque altogether, much like Acura/Lexus/Infiniti. Was a Hyundai Genesis a luxury car? Many people would argue not. Would the same car, now called a Genesis G80, be a luxury car? Perhaps -- we'll have to see what people think.

Then, of course, we have to deal with the range of cars that these marques sell. I don't think anyone will disagree that the Mercedes S class is a luxury car, but many people who have driven the A class may think otherwise.

Which brings us to Volvo. My perception of it has been that it has been an entry-level (or premium, or near-luxury) brand with an emphasis on value. The S60/V60 competes with the Audi A4 and BMW 3-series, for example, but optioned similarly undercuts them by about $5-10K. The current S60/V60 is beginning to get long in the tooth, so it is not competing as well as it once did with its more-recently updated rivals, but that is the class I would place it in.

That said, I think Volvo started to go upscale with the introduction of the XC90 and now the S90/V90. The interiors of these cars are truly top-notch and their styling is striking, although some reports of pedestrian ride and handling have come out. They still generally undercut their rivals' pricing, though.

I'll be interested to see the next generation of S60/V60 and where its place in the automotive universe will be.

 

The Volvo name maintains some cache with the general public, so it may still be perceived to be a luxury brand by some, but perceptions do not sell cars when the bottom line is high cost and lower levels of *actual* luxury (supple materials, buttery smooth ride, amazing switchgear, silent HVAC fans, silent wipers, minimal outside noise intrusion from other traffic or rain, near silence on the highway and over bumps, current infotainment systems, supple ride qualtiy, intuitive shift logic and power delivery, smooth powertrain sounds or a total lack thereof) as compared with competitors' cars at a given price point. Volvo reminds me of Saab in some respects, in that you really want the cars to be better than they are, and you really want them to be world class, which they aren't, and you really wish they'd be priced more realistically for their level of "luxury" relative to their competitors, which they didn't do with the P3 platform.

Saab made nice, likeable cars that were priced at a level that put them up against nicer cars at the same price point, and while Saab as a brand had some value in its name, people were not willing to put their money down on cars that weren't as nice as the cars sold for the same money at their neighborhood Lexus, Acura, Audi, or BMW dealership. The brand hemorrhaged money when it couldn't sell new cars at full price, and in order to move cars dealerships had to sell cars at a loss with big incentives, or had to lease cars and sell them when massive depreciation brought prices in line with reality as they came off leases. After 2000 or so, their cars simply fell behind their competition in the perception of quality and refinement from dynamic and tactile, not to mention aesthetic perspectives. Yes there were political factors within GM holding Saab back, but the end result was that their overpriced, under-delivering cars didn't sell well at their price points, and that they cost too much for the experience they delivered. Other marques presented better cars for the money, irrespective of which brands had more or less cache.

I worry that Volvo is in a similar rut where their cars are pleasant, practical, and have character, and you want them to succeed, but they aren't so nice that you'd be willing to spend a lot of your own money on one when better options exist elsewhere for the same money. That's not a sustainable business model. I hope the new crop of cars like the S/V90s and XC90s can turn things around for Volvo. The few that I've sat in seem to be leaps and bounds better in terms of the perception of luxury and modernity, so hopefully they drive as nicely as they feel in a showroom, and then hopefully they don't get over-optimistic with pricing which will stifle any potential for selling in volume.

 

The Volvo name maintains some cache with the general public, so it may still be perceived to be a luxury brand by some, but perceptions do not sell cars when the bottom line is high cost and lower levels of *actual* luxury (supple materials, buttery smooth ride, amazing switchgear, silent HVAC fans, silent wipers, minimal outside noise intrusion from other traffic or rain, near silence on the highway and over bumps, current infotainment systems, supple ride qualtiy, intuitive shift logic and power delivery, smooth powertrain sounds or a total lack thereof) as compared with competitors' cars at a given price point. Volvo reminds me of Saab in some respects, in that you really want the cars to be better than they are, and you really want them to be world class, which they aren't, and you really wish they'd be priced more realistically for their level of "luxury" relative to their competitors, which they didn't do with the P3 platform.

Saab made nice, likeable cars that were priced at a level that put them up against nicer cars at the same price point, and while Saab as a brand had some value in its name, people were not willing to put their money down on cars that weren't as nice as the cars sold for the same money at their neighborhood Lexus, Acura, Audi, or BMW dealership. The brand hemorrhaged money when it couldn't sell new cars at full price, and in order to move cars dealerships had to sell cars at a loss with big incentives, or had to lease cars and sell them when massive depreciation brought prices in line with reality as they came off leases. After 2000 or so, their cars simply fell behind their competition in the perception of quality and refinement from dynamic and tactile, not to mention aesthetic perspectives. Yes there were political factors within GM holding Saab back, but the end result was that their overpriced, under-delivering cars didn't sell well at their price points, and that they cost too much for the experience they delivered. Other marques presented better cars for the money, irrespective of which brands had more or less cache.

I worry that Volvo is in a similar rut where their cars are pleasant, practical, and have character, and you want them to succeed, but they aren't so nice that you'd be willing to spend a lot of your own money on one when better options exist elsewhere for the same money. That's not a sustainable business model. I hope the new crop of cars like the S/V90s and XC90s can turn things around for Volvo. The few that I've sat in seem to be leaps and bounds better in terms of the perception of luxury and modernity, so hopefully they drive as nicely as they feel in a showroom, and then hopefully they don't get over-optimistic with pricing which will stifle any potential for selling in volume.

I agree with a lot of your points about Volvo's current state in the market; however I'm one of those that did spend "a lot of money" to buy a new S60 for the very reasons you mention. We cross-shopped Audi, Lexus, BMW, Infiniti, Acura, and still ended up back at Volvo. Perhaps I'm not enough of a driving enthusiast to notice the differences in handling/power delivery/NVH/etc, but the overall visceral experience and value proposition with the Volvo was enough to win us over. Luxury to me isn't a buttery smooth ride or a whisper quiet cabin or half a second less 0-60, it centers more on having a supremely safe, comfortable and stylish car that has all the tech we could ever want, with the added bonus of not seeing multiple carbon copies a day. I understand it is a very tough place to be though, because much like Saab you want to retain that "quirkiness" and exclusivity but also make money, which can't be done unless you sell thousands of units and become more mainstream. On a side note, I actually really like the advertising tag line Volvo has been using on the newer models - "our definition of luxury" - because so much of that is subjective and their choices may not appeal to everyone.

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I would classify our 2014 S60 and 2015.5 V60CC as "near-luxury" which is a term the car reviewers were using back in 2003-2004 when we bought our Saab 9-5 Aeros. Back then our Saabs were very luxurious to us as our first cars owned with automatic transmissions and super comfy, heated, vented leather seats. Our new S60 cost about the same as our Saabs back then ($37K range). My V60CC was a dealer demo purchase but also cost about the same as our new Saabs cost 12-13 years earlier. My neighbor across the street bought a 2016 Honda Civic Touring (1.5L 4cyl Turbo CVT). I have ridden as a passenger in it many times and it's nice but doesn't seem as "near-luxurious" as our Volvos. It seems a bit more plasticky and gimmicky with electronics. He has had a recurring A/C leak problem since he bought it. I think it was about $10K less than our Volvos.