Post a video.

 

+1 to what mercdude said.

If it's what I think you're talking about, I have the same "clatter" noise, and have had it since I have my car. It's worse on cold starts. If it's what I think you're talking about, then I have it too.

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+1 to what mercdude said.

If it's what I think you're talking about, I have the same "clatter" noise, and have had it since I have my car. It's worse on cold starts. If it's what I think you're talking about, then I have it too.

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Me too. I'm pretty sure it's just wear on the mechanical lifters. They make a damn racket, especially cold if the car hasn't been driven for a few days. Probably need to be adjusted, but no one knows how to do that, including the dealerships. ha!

 

Thanks guys. I'll do that, although it may be a couple of days (calling for snow here, and I don't have a garage.)

 

There is no adjustment for the valve lash and the lifters do not have shims. The only way to adjust is to change the lifter itself. The lash is also quite tricky to measure because the valve cover is what holds the camshaft in place. So you need a special Volvo tool to hold the cam down so you can even take the measurement. Once you have your measurements, you place an order at the dealership for the lifters you want and you have them in a couple days. Then you can finally begin to reassemble your car. This is why nobody does the adjustment. It's an arduous, lengthy and expensive process. Best to just deal with the tick. You can try a little bit thicker oil or some additive. I'd recommend trying Rotella T6 5W-40 to start.

 

Right. But the technical procedure isn't known by the dealership or indy shops. I've contemplated doing it myself, but you're right - the noise is just annoying, it isn't a technical requirement. I've found that 0w-40 euro oil a little overfilled does a lot to quieten the lifter tick. Just FYI

 

I think everyone is on the right track but you may want to pop that upper cam belt cover & take a glance at your belt tension & condition. You have a low mileage 05. I trust the belt has been changed out already?

To put you at ease about your original question, it's not a VVT issue. They are very reliable plus you'll get a CEL if they actually malfunction.

 

Thanks pczeilon. Yes- the timing belt was done around 7K ago, by a well regarded Volvo shop.

It’s actually not good news (to me that it’s unlikely to be a VVT issue. You see this sound I am describing was sudden onset, so it’s more concerning now. I don’t think it’s lifter noise, but of course may be wrong.

I should have a video/audio to post up soon.

Many thanks gang!

 

When you say the sound is to the "right" of the oil fill, does that mean when viewed from the front? I.e noise is roughly between cylinders 2&3?

The VVT solenoids are at the front of the head, and they don't really make any noise at all. They are pulse-width modulated to regulate oil pressure which pushes into the hubs of the cam pulleys. That hydraulic pressure twists the pulleys to vary the cam timings.

Did this start around the 2K-ago synthetic oil change, and did you use the same oil as prior changes? A short-term clatter certainly sounds like an oiling issue, either too thin, or a restriction, or a trickle-down, that kind of thing.

 

Tmtalpey- Thanks for chiming in. Yes- I should have been more clear- it is just to the right of the oil fill hole when facing the car (so standing in front, looking down at the engine.)

I’m guessing it started about 200-300 miles ago...not with the last oil change. It also seems to idle higher at start up (meaning higher than the usual immediate post start high idle which settles out after 10 seconds or so.)

 

Might be a funny question, but do you smell any exhaust in the cabin when you first start from cold and it does this? A cracked or open manifold flange could make this type of noise, and it will close up quickly as the part heats up.

 

Well, funny you ask. Not in the cabin, and not exhaust smell....but I do sometimes smell a straight gasoline smell if I've got the hood open for a few seconds (though I've not seen any evidence of an issue.) Gotta admit the prospect of a cracked or open manifold is concerning. Are you talking about the exhaust manifold? Sounds like it. What other symptoms may there be? Again I'm not smelling exhaust...I know that smell, of course.

Been trying all night to post the darn video. Took it on my iPhone and just can't seem to get it loaded from this hand me down MacBook I have. I'll try again to borrow from my work machine.

Thanks again for walking this through with me.

 

Yes, exhaust manifold. The turbo one is a pretty large hunk of cast iron/steel and has been known to "lift" from the head. It's segmented with cuts, so it tends to affect just one cylinder if so.

A gasoline smell is a strong hint though. It absolutely shouldn't happen, the system is sealed up front. Might be worth sniffing around with a hydrocarbon meter, could give some clues. But if it only happens when stone cold, that might mean sitting overnight at a friendly shop. And, it might not be related to the issue.

Do you have a stethoscope, or a hunk of tubing? Localizing the noise could maybe tell you a lot.

[edit]

Ooh! Loose spark plug?

 

Yeah, I guess I'll just have to bite it and head to the shop with it. Was really hoping to be able to have a pretty decent idea of what may be happening first but realize/understand how hard that is over the net. Again, though, I'll try to post that video tomorrow (pity my bone-headed self can't seem to do it, as I have before on other sites, b/c it's a good video/audio. )

BTW- the plugs- I did those myself about 3K or so ago and feel confident that a loose one is unlikely (granting , of course, that anything is possible.)

 

OK, I think I have the video set. Youtube.

It's much more pronounced/distinct/loud when hearing it "in-person." You'll hear it though- from 1-10 secs. Then it'll go to it's usual cold high idle, and end with it at normal idle.

 

IMO small exhaust leak, probably at the far left of the head (cy. no. 1?). I'd try to see if those exhaust bolts are loose. I'll bet you get 1/2 turn on them. They only take about 20lbs of torque, so be mindful of the stress.

 

Thanks- I should check those bolts. Are they accessible without having to remove a bunch of stuff?

Edit: Never mind- I see the DIY sticky on the manifold gasket procedure. This weekend I'll remove the intake tube and see if I can get to those bolts.

In the meantime if anyone else has any ideas after giving the video a listen just let me know.

Thanks!

 

Pretty simple: remove the air intake (and lower connector), remove exhaust shield and then you'll have access to all the bolts. They're 12mm and can be utilized fairly easily by leaning/laying overtop the engine. It's at least not a bad place to start. If you find that the bolts are loose and after tightening them you still get the exhaust leak sound, then you'll probably need to replace the gasket. That's not a fun job, but DIY able. Another area to check would be your intake manifold bolts. They're a bit harder to access but same thing goes for those bolts (20lbs max torque).

 

Definitely an exhaust leak, and yes a small one. Hard to pinpoint the location though. A similar sound can happen if the headpipe flange bolts come loose, which is another common event.

Tightening them is certainly DIY-able, but as mentioned go easy on the torque. Honestly, if you have a good shop, you may want to trust it to them. This kind of job can go downhill fast if something goes kerflooey.

 

Huge thanks all. Yes- I think I'll err on the side of caution and go ahead and have the shop look into it. I trust their ability (well reputed indie Volvo shop of 30+ years, but I do think they're pretty expensive and may upsell the issues...but not as bad as the dealer.)

I'll be taking it in on Monday evening so they can get a clear listen on Tuesday morning. I'll assume, unless I hear otherwise, that it should be OK to drive around town (very little mileage.)

I'll post back up with what I learn. I'm praying it's not an expensive fix as I've hemorrhaged over 5K in unplanned expenses in the last 8 weeks. (not Volvo related, though. )

Thanks again!

 

You could drive it for as long as you like. Since the leak is small and pretty much closes up in a few seconds, it's a big nothing for most of your trip. However, it won't get better. Get it looked at soon.

 

Will do- gonna have it checked out on Tuesday so hoping to know something by the end of that day. Again I'll post back with what I learn. Thanks again all!

 

Could a small exhaust leak cause a P0101 MAF code? I can't tell if the OPs sound is the same as mine, but I'll check it anyways. Mine sounds kinda like lifters and happens for like half a second on every start and then goes away, louder on cold starts.

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Could a small exhaust leak cause a P0101 MAF code? I can't tell if the OPs sound is the same as mine, but I'll check it anyways. Mine sounds kinda like lifters and happens for like half a second on every start and then goes away, louder on cold starts.

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So you still have that code ?! No a small exhaust leak wouldn't cause that. From what I've seen the sound you describe is ''normal''. Mine does the same sound and so does a lot of other ones I have tried and heard.

 

Imo that's a bit conservative. It's pretty easy to just check the tightness of the manifold bolts. If otoh you need a new gasket and the bolts are in bad shape, then consider a shop. Just FYI, a shop will charge you the same cost for a $12 gasket replacement as it would installing a new turbo - aka $1000+ easy.


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Imo that's a bit conservative. It's pretty easy to just check the tightness of the manifold bolts. If otoh you need a new gasket and the bolts are in bad shape, then consider a shop. Just FYI, a shop will charge you the same cost for a $12 gasket replacement as it would installing a new turbo - aka $1000+ easy.

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Yeah that's the concern I have, for sure. Been weighing quite a bit on my mind.

Knowing me I may get in there on Sunday to see what may be possible. The bolts holding the heat shield on look very rusty- a few have springs around them (is that typical?) Looks like a few along the top, and one lower in the center of the span of the shield. Correct? Anything else I should be aware of before trying to remove the heat shield?

If I am successful in getting the shield off (if I even try at all) I'll be very careful to not put too much force on the manifold bolts.

 

Yes the 2 outer bolts have springs on them. I assume they are there to keep tension on the shield in order to keep it from rattling. Liberally spray penetrating oil on the bolts the night before you decide to work on the car. Same for the manifold bolts. Go with God....

 

+1

Also go easy on the torque, trust me, getting helicoils in there is a PITA. If you find any that are finger tight back them all the way out and check for AL on the threads, if they're galled up no use putting them back w/o thread repair as they'll back out again.

 

Well, I don't mind sharing that I wussed out and have handed the car over to the shop. Though not ashamed of my record overall it's not unheard of for me to ham-fist something....and didn't want to risk busting a stud or something.

They were to have started looking into it this morning, so hoping to get a call soon with at least their diagnosis and recommended course. May very well need to pick your brains if what they're saying doesn't fully make sense (and, either way, I'll post back with how this turns out.)

Again thanks very much to all of you who have offered your insights/advice. This site is great.

 

I actually have VIDA myself lol.

I have a whole thread where I've dug so deep into the code and it's meaning. I've replaced a lot of different things related to it and sadly have had no luck.

Here's the link to the thread: http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?t=419009

Feel free to read through it and see all myself and other swedespeed members have gone through! Any help with anything in the topic would be much appreciated.

It's been going on for a while now, so at this point I'm open to anything. Thank you! [emoji3]

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Looked through that thread and still don't see the Volvo DTC. This will be a code starting with "ECM", then four hex digits. There may be more than one code stored.

 

Sorry my apologies. Sometimes I post images from vida that contain it. It is ECM-130A -MAF faulty signal.

I can send you an image that has all of the info at the time of the code being thrown/stored from VIDA, but I don't want to post in here and threadjack. I'll send then to your PM.

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Hi Gang. As promised an update...the least I can do for your help.

It was indeed loose manifold bolts. Two hours labor and done (so about 200 clams.) Huge relief, given that (as mentioned previously) this shop, I think, has a propensity to inflate an issue at times. So, in all fairness to them, they have won back some confidence from me.

I'm glad I didn't attempt it myself- tmtalpey called it right. You see, the place I took it to has been a Volvo specialist for decades, and even they snapped one off. The work order says "replaced with suitable bolt" so I sure hope it is indeed suitable/correct. Also said quite a few were loose.

So yes, quite relieved. I'll be more relieved in the morning when I give it a cold start and will then know with absolute certainty that this was the issue. I expect it will be, given that bolts were found to be loose.

I know I've said it before but I'll say it again- this place is a great, great resource and I very much appreciate your insights. As I tell my young daughter (who just got her license): the last thing you want to do is walk into a shop without being armed with at least some perfunctory understanding of cars and, preferably, a feel for the issue at hand.

 

Doesn't surprise me a bit that one broke. Those bolts live a tough life, and it's not uncommon for them to loosen. You may find they do it again, in which case you may need a handful of suitable bolts. But you're good for now.

We're happy to help. Shared pain, shared knowledge, shared experience, it all adds up.