[EngTech]

Re: fuel Injector replacement/ upgrade write up (mcevoya)

Here's some History for all to Consider :

When the manual 850R with 250hp B5234T4 engine was introduced it came with 350cc injectors and the 350cc injector was used for 240hp x70 T5 and automatic R with B5234T3 engine and manual R with 250hp and B5234T4 engines.

P2x T5 with B5234T3 engine came with 394cc fuel injectors and the 394cc fuel injector is also used for the new 24HT engine in P2x T5 2005- with 260hp B5244T3 engine. The new 300hp R-line engine B5254T4 in S60R and V70R introduced comes with 468cc fuel injectors.

Some of this was to Keep the ( Window Smaller ) - Fuel Going In .
The Big - Ping

Keep Carbon from Building Up - etc. to Meet Lambda 1
Requirements & Avoid the Big Ping .

47 Lbs / Hour Injectors come to = 493.6 CC or 25.6 CC more then the
300 HP R - B5254T4

 

[mcevoya]

Re: fuel Injector replacement/ upgrade write up (Mistral)

Quote, originally posted by Mistral »

so, these are 200+ US dollars a piece. and we need 5?? which is best site to order from?

no they are about 40 dollars a piece. They come as a set of 8. Of course the higher the lbs injectors the more money they will cost. I am still trying to find just a set of 5 or where I can by them individual.

 

[mcevoya]

http://www.fuelinjectorconnect...Id=13

 

[EngTech]

Re: fuel Injector replacement/ upgrade write up (mcevoya)

When You say You Felt Immediate Power Increase , that was under
WOT , and what Boost were Your running @ Current Set-Up ?

Have You been able to do a Plug Check Yet and How about - just Local
Drive ability ?

Thanks for Your Insight & Testing http://********************/smile/emthup.gif

 

[atl-cruisin]

Re: fuel Injector replacement/ upgrade write up (mcevoya)

if yall get a group buy i am so down

 

[volvoNB]

Re: fuel Injector replacement/ upgrade write up (Mistral)

Quote, originally posted by Mistral »

so, these are 200+ US dollars a piece. and we need 5?? which is best site to order from?

The cheapest I've found is $246 for 8.
http://www.re-racing.com/Air-F....html

 

[EngTech]

Re: fuel Injector replacement/ upgrade write up (volvoNB)

Better Try - Re Curving the MAF , LOL

Set - 6
Bosch 47lbs/hr
0280158117
STANDARD EV14 2-1/2"
$359.50

Anyway - You can get some Reasonably @ http://www.fiveomotorsport.com...S.asp

Bottom Right 3/4 down on Page , It's from One of My Old Thunderbird
Links.

Modified by EngTech at 11:04 PM 11-12-2009

 

[EngTech]

Re: fuel Injector replacement/ upgrade write up (mcevoya)

Also : McEvoya - would You be inclined to take a close up of the Injectors
Ends ( Use Macro setting ) - Shot of the 4 Hole'r Vs 6 Hole'r .

Good Comparison for Hole Orientation .

Looking at some Theory . http://********************/smile/emthup.gif

 

[mcevoya]

Re: fuel Injector replacement/ upgrade write up (EngTech)

yeah sure thing.
We ran her today and my air to fuel was at 14.5 to 1 and now she is 11.5 to 1 at boost looking a lot better than before. We are still going to play around with it even more tomorrow.

 

[EngTech]

Re: fuel Injector replacement/ upgrade write up (mcevoya)

Those sound like Safe - Mix http://********************/smile/emthup.gif

In a 4 Valve with Boost - Detonation happens around the Valve Seats more then the the Boundary Line .

So Looking at Injector a Little Closer , of Course more Tumble is Great .

 

[mcevoya]

Re: fuel Injector replacement/ upgrade write up (EngTech)

some close ups of the injectors

 

[mcevoya]

well we will be working more on tuning the car on monday. So far no major issues.

 

[EngTech]

Re: (mcevoya) - Info on Injectors for all to Consider !

Just some Additional - Injector Info .
Sizing:Follow the EV14 Info

Pulled Info as those Huge Pic's were Distorting this Post.
I'll Add Link

Hope You find that Sweet Spot where the Our MAF - Curve
Kicks It Up for the Cams & Boost:

Basic Calu.
http://www.injectorrx.com/sizing.html

Modified by EngTech at 8:32 PM 11-18-2009

 

[Mistral]

based on that tech data, isnt 47lb a bit overkill?

 

[stealth]

Re: (Mistral)

Quote, originally posted by Mistral »

based on that tech data, isnt 47lb a bit overkill?

No such thing.

 

[theshadow27]

Re: (Mistral)

Quote, originally posted by Mistral »

based on that tech data, isnt 47lb a bit overkill?

Some quick math:

2.5l (displacement) * 5500RPM (speed) / 2 (4 stroke engine) = 412500 l/h of air, or 14567.3 cubic feet/hr
90f (post IC) density at 20psig is 0.177 pounds per cubic foot(see here)
14567.3 cf/hr * 0.177 lbs/cf = 2578.4 pounds/hr
10:1 AF ratio (mentioned above)= 257.4 lb/hr fuel
257.4lb/hr / 5 cyl = 51 lbs/hr

So if you're running 20lbs (1.3bar) 47 is too small.

 

[theshadow27]

Re: (theshadow27)

Just some more math, for kicks.

According to Eng, the stock injectors are 394cc (not sure how you converted cubic centimeters to pounds/hour but I'm curious. I just used a ratio below). With any flash tune, the max boost is around 14psig, but it will decrease at higher revs. Worst case, assuming 15psig at redline, we find:

2.5l (displacement) * 5500RPM (speed) / 2 (4 stroke engine) = 412500 l/h of air (14567.3 cubic feet/hr)
90f at 15psig is 0.146 lb/cf * 14567.3 cf/hr = 2126.8258 lb/hr
1:12 AF ratio = 177.23 lbs/hr fuel / 5 cyl = 35 lbs/hr

If 47lbs/hr = 493.6cc, then 35lbs/hr = 367cc. That means with our injectors, being 394cc = 37lbs/hr, are more than capable of supplying a flash tune on a stock turbo.

In Aaron's case, I'd absolutely agree that bigger injectors are necessary. I'd go so far as to suggest larger than 47lbs/hr after you get the unichip dialed in, as I agree with the 85% rule in the picture Eng posted. Maybe 60lb/hr?

 

[theshadow27]

Re: (theshadow27)

Also note that the stock fuel pump in the T5 is rated for 115 l/h at 385 kpa at the rail. In US units it's 30.37 gal/hr or aprox 182.28 lbs/hr at 55psi. So with the factory fuel pump there's some limitations on max boost:

First, to keep the above said minimum differential pressure of 39.15 psi, the most boost you could push would be 16 psi. Anything more than that and the injector is flowing less than it's rated for.

Second, 182.28 lbs/hr cap limits maximum injector size to 36.45 lbs/hr.

Third, the 182.28 lbs/hr cap limits AF ratio. Working backwards:
12:1 a/f * 182.28 lbs/hr fuel = 2187.12 lbs/hr air
displacement = 14567.3 cubic feet/hr, so max density = 0.150 lb/cf
If the IC can keep the temps at 90f, that's around 16psi max on the stock fuel pump

So basically, if you do upgrade the injectors, you need to upgrade the fuel pump if you hope to see peak HP increases. There's absolutely power band increases to be had since all this math is at redline.

 

[EngTech]

Re: (theshadow27)

Thanks Shadow , just sending some Info - a long I Lifted from a S60R Tuner
Site . I checked it Out . looking at Many Sites and what Other Tuner's

S60r 's Cranked the S60R Up past 355 HP , so I pasted It along .

I was Looking into the Fuel detonation Issues , to make sure some weren't
going down a Road that Might Quickly - turn Bad, and I also wanted to see
just How Critical it was . I ran across the Volvo History on Injector Size .
**
How Ever I did not Find Out what the S60R Fuel Pump , was able to
Flow .**

History: Manual 850R with 250hp B5234T4 engine was introduced it came with 350cc injectors and the 350cc injector was used for 240hp x70 T5 and automatic R with B5234T3 engine and manual R with 250hp and B5234T4 engines.

P2x T5 with B5234T3 engine came with 394cc fuel injectors and the
394cc fuel injector is also used for the new 24HT engine in P2x T5 2005- with 260hp B5244T3 engine. The new 300hp R-line engine B5254T4
in S60R and V70R introduced comes with 468cc fuel injectors.

Some of this was to Keep the ( Window Smaller ) - Fuel Going In .
The Big - Ping

Selecting 47 lbs and Keeping the Volume Up - Shadow 's figure's indicate 12 PSI , on Stock Pump which - the Unchip is doing on stock fuel pump .

I'd even keep it around 12 PSI for Hot - Weather .

47 Lbs / Hour Injectors come to = 493.6 CC or 25.6 CC more then the
300 HP R - B5254T4

Just something I was Looking At :- )

The Last Part I Tossed In as I Believe You have to have about 25% more
Fuel going in @ same Fuel Pump Settings as ( 1 ) of the Criteria for ( E85 ) Ooops - that's an Entirely - Different Ball Game .
E85 does have a - Higher Knock Rating , and was 1 Buck cheaper a Gal.
So Hotter weather & Leaner Conditions - would Not Knock .
9 Psi

I'm Setting Up to Help Near-By's that are: HandiCapped & Retired
Deal with the Winter that is about to Land on Us in the Next 2 Weeks .
Sorry If It seems I Fell a Sleep !

http://********************/smile/emthup.gif
Made Corrections !

Modified by EngTech at 1:04 PM 11-18-2009

 

[theshadow27]

Re: (EngTech)

FYI when you start to run into delivery issues (datalog fuel rail pressure) Fuelab Prodigy pumps should be a direct drop-in replacement for the FPM and stock fuel pump. You'll have to get a sump in the tank, but other than that it's PWM speed controlled just like the stocker.

http://www.fuelab.com/index.ph...mid=3

It would need a bigger fuse or separate relay since they draw up to 25 amps, but they are brushless (last forever) and can deliver up to 710lbs/hr at 40psi (270% of the above said requirement).

As stated above, 5x 47lbs/hr injectors need a pump that can flow a minimum of 275lbs/hr or 45 gal/hr. Our stock fuel pump is rated for 180lbs/hr or 30gal/hr. The Fuelab pump is rated to 710lbs/hr or 120gal/hr at 40 psi. With the 47lbs injectors and a fuel pump that can keep up, you should be good for a minimum of 350 chp.