Re: Ford and its influence on Volvo (Barry)

I voted "Ford's influence on Volvo is fine at this point and should not change anymore"... cause that's where things currently stand in my opinion. The backing of Ford turned out very well so far development and financially wise while managing to keep their own identity.

When these sort of discussions come alive, I always refer to the case of GM and Saab. This is a case where influence of a major automotive company go bad on a smaller brand. True, Saab needs volume and cutting of costs, just the way they go about it just ruins the brand in my opinion (ultimate example of rebadging and/or bad development on 'shared' development of platforms).

Anyway, just my two 2 cts.

 

Re: Ford and its influence on Volvo (Barry)

Don't forget the flip side of the equation too! It's very evident moving forward that Ford is also being seriously influenced by Volvo, and this is a terrific thing. Witness both the shared and Volvo-developed platforms popping up in everything from the Ford 500 and Freestyle to the Mercury Meta and new Lincoln concepts. See subtle changes like the use of twin turbos in the new Mercury hybrid concept engine. Watch Peter Horbury work his magic at the big brand.

While this is obviously not as important to Volvo enthusiasts as Ford's influence on Volvo, it does show that Ford takes Volvo seriously, appreciates its engineering prowess, and is willing to talk, compromise and listen. It looks to be a far more fruitful relationship than, say, Saab and GM!

 

Re: Ford and its influence on Volvo (snowkarver)

I feel the same way. I would take a Ford anyday over a GM product. At least with the current offerings because GM hasn't sucked this bad since the 80s.

 

Re: Ford and its influence on Volvo (Barry)

did my masters thesis on volvo, toyota and ford manufacturing practices with a woman head of fords world wide diesel automobile engine development program, denise bledsoe from the uk.

i voted ford has gone too far. they can bring economy of scale but they drive hard to lower costs. my worry is that the hybridisation of product will side track engineering, design and imagination of the staff through turff struggles. ultimately ford would probably win but loose invaluable staff and pride of Swedish Steel.

2cents

 

Re: Ford and its influence on Volvo (hastee)

hello hastee

I am very very interested in reading your masters thesis. Would it be possible to receive a copy of it? Are you based in the UK? I live in Manchester....

please email me shimon340@hotmail.com

I will cover the costs of printing etc the thesis and postage or... you could post me a Cd which i will pay for....

much appreciated!

Shimon

 

Re: Ford and its influence on Volvo (hastee)

Being on the front line in this I think Ford's influence is just fine and hasn't reached a damaging point yet.
Now, the Volvo people resent the Ford people because the latter have been kicking the former in their complacency.
It was the Ford people who were instrumental in the XC90 project.
That car has never engendered much enthusiasm w/ the Swedes.
The Swedes are still fighting the XC50. Which would be a cash cow here.

The new S40 has alot of equipment and is alot cheaper than prior Volvos.
The 1998 S70 base car started at just under $30,000. All it was was a rebodied 850!
Volvo is still doing their own platforms, and engines, and will continue to do so.
Volvo at its heart is a very conservative company and one that doesn't do change very well. This is why the Swedes no longer own the company.
Fords stewardship of Jaguar and Aston Martin speaks well of their ability to understand the culture of the company and help it grow. If anything, Ford is guilty of overinvesting in Jag.

 

Re: Ford and its influence on Volvo (VolvoMax)

dittos on the jag invesments, being a jag guy in the early mid 70's the cars are turning taurus to my eye. at least underneath and in the engine compartment.

I do agree with you on most else too. even my local dealer has no bad stories of negative ford intervention.

as it turns out this thread has gotten me talking to many old collegues about what customer input should be utilized by both volvo and ford to get the products and service we want.

edit;barry
nederland, colorado?

 

Re: Ford and its influence on Volvo (Barry)

Your letter certainly has some relevent points about the 'marriage' between Ford and Volvo. One positive aspect was the Super Bowl ad for the XC90 (which, according to my sources, Ford paid for).

I certainly feel that this marriage has resulted in positive changes for both companies. The new Ford 500 is on a Volvo chassis, for example. For us Volvophiles who have been driving 'them ferin cars' for a long time, we certainly notice the changes in the models. I think the bucks that Ford has married with the advance designs (by women!) have given the competitors notice that it's no a boxy non descript car that happens to be very safe to drive!

I look for the new female president of Volvo, Anne Balek, to make even more positive changes for the company. It's no longer a 'boys club' when it comes to car companies, and I'm most encourrage by the positive changes for Volvo.

Newie

 

Re: Ford and its influence on Volvo (hastee)

Quote, originally posted by hastee »

edit;barry nederland, colorado?

No, the original Nederland in Europe

Obviously the marriage (as it is being put) wasn't one out of love but purely the benefits which both parties could gain out of it and it would never have gone through had it not been that way. I think however, I think though that Volvo has a very particular type of customer. I think Ford need to realise (if they haven't already) that the best thing that they can do is to continue to let Volvo design and develop cars the way they have been since 75 years ago. I read in a thread not that long ago that the red lights on the side sills of the door were taken out of the standard Volvo car as it would cut costs. Granted this is a minor change, but that just lays the starting point for possible changes in the future.

It took years, but it was eventually that Opel and Vauxhal because the same rebaged cars, its already starting to happen with Pontiac and its current GTO. Opel is the main design factor of the three brands, but they are all Euro versions of Cadillac, meaning the 4 brands are almost just 1. Chevy in Europe are looking more and more like Hyundai, which GM also owns partially, and until recently, Saab and Subaru, it simply goes on.

My example outlines only GM, but its starting in Ford as well. The new Lincolm Mark X or something? the pick up... could it BE more F150?

For now it seems Ford is basing most of its new cars on other brands like Volvo which is a semi good thing, I dont think rebadged Volvos as Fords though will do the true Volvo customer any justice. I think its only a matter of time before Volvo loses what essentially makes it Volvo, but I guess we'll see when the next redesigned models hit the Auto Shows.

 

Re: Ford and its influence on Volvo (Barry)

im not sure if anyone knew, but the S40/Mazda 3/Focus is the first cross-venture platform for Ford. Its call the C1 platform. Developed in Europe mainly...

 

Re: Ford and its influence on Volvo (Barry)

Nederland, europe. Thank you.

Wife went to school in the Netherlands, the agricultural university in Wageningen.

Ford may make sausage out of Volvo if we do not use what little influence we have as consumers. I did my grad work partially on automobile manufacturing practices, ford, volvo and, toyota, and see little to comfort me. guess i'll have a beer.

jim

 

Re: Ford and its influence on Volvo (hastee)

Quote, originally posted by hastee »

Nederland, europe. Thank you. Wife went to school in the Netherlands, the agricultural university in Wageningen. Ford may make sausage out of Volvo if we do not use what little influence we have as consumers. I did my grad work partially on automobile manufacturing practices, ford, volvo and, toyota, and see little to comfort me. guess i'll have a beer. jim

Then you should realize that the consumer is their own worst enemy.
If its cheap and has the right label it will sell.

 

Don't change this!!

Hi there. You raise some very good points-particularly about having a woman at the top of the company. However, I would not like to see the male symbol changed off the radiator simply because Volvo has gone unisex, transgendered, implanted, ...other.

Don't take any of this too seriously-I've just finished work!!

Cheers

 

Re: Don't change this!! (Orlando)

Quote, originally posted by Orlando »

Hi there. You raise some very good points-particularly about having a woman at the top of the company. However, I would not like to see the male symbol changed off the radiator simply because Volvo has gone unisex, transgendered, implanted, ...other. Don't take any of this too seriously-I've just finished work!! Cheers

Volvo's symbol is not there as the male symbol. It is the symbol for iron ore which signifies strength so it has nothing to do with male/female.

Yannis

 

Re: Don't change this!! (GrecianVolvo)

Hi there. Thanks for your input about the iron ore symbol. Coming from a medically trained background, I saw the male sex symbol long before I saw in the symbol for iron ore. I did not realise that FEO2 which I understood as being ferous oxide actually had a symbol as well as a chemical symbol.

Worse still, I did not realise that iron ore is actually all that strong. Do you know if it is stronger than Steel?

Please keep me posted-I would be very interested in the outcome.

Thank You for your information.

Cheers

 

Re: Don't change this!! (Orlando)

Quote, originally posted by Orlando »

Hi there. Thanks for your input about the iron ore symbol. Coming from a medically trained background, I saw the male sex symbol long before I saw in the symbol for iron ore. I did not realise that FEO2 which I understood as being ferous oxide actually had a symbol as well as a chemical symbol. Worse still, I did not realise that iron ore is actually all that strong. Do you know if it is stronger than Steel? Please keep me posted-I would be very interested in the outcome. Thank You for your information. Cheers

Steel is refined iron ore.
The symbol was chosen because the Volvo was the first car made in Sweden out of Swedish steel. Sweden was a big exporter of steel and the iron ore symbol signifies great strength.
The name Volvo is latin for "I roll", hence the name and symbol together stand for "Rolling Strength"

 

Re: Don't change this!! (VolvoMax)

Quote, originally posted by VolvoMax »

Steel is refined iron ore. The symbol was chosen because the Volvo was the first car made in Sweden out of Swedish steel. Sweden was a big exporter of steel and the iron ore symbol signifies great strength. The name Volvo is latin for "I roll", hence the name and symbol together stand for "Rolling Strength"

Bravo, Max! A+ for Max regarding Volvo History!

Yannis

 

Re: Don't change this!! (VolvoMax)

Quote, originally posted by VolvoMax »

Steel is refined iron ore. The symbol was chosen because the Volvo was the first car made in Sweden out of Swedish steel. Sweden was a big exporter of steel and the iron ore symbol signifies great strength. The name Volvo is latin for "I roll", hence the name and symbol together stand for "Rolling Strength"

Max,

Great.

Whenever I have someone (usually a woman) question the Volvo symbol - I explain the history of the Volvo name and symbol as you have done above.

Then I ask the person...

Do you know which automobile company in the world has more female workers in their assembly plants?

They stop and think for a moment...

look at me and then say...

"Is it Volvo?"

Suddenly that safe and sturdy slice of Swedish steel I was showing them doesn't have a sexist symbol.

William

 

You are correct

Hi there. I asked the nephew for some advice on this topic. He is a Latin scholar.

Well Volvo certainly does mean "I roll". The symbol is certainly the
ancient alchemical symbol for iron
(http://www.chemsoc.org/viselements/pages/alchemist/alc_iron.html -
rather neatly the Royal Society of Chemistry acknowledging its now
somewhat discredited roots). So together I think the story is
plausible.

It certainly is accepted as truth by some Volvo enthusiasts
(http://www.volvospy.com/resources/humor/humor.php - rather a lot to
read here, but search for iron and you'll get the reference).

However your reference to the male sex symbol is also, of course, apt.
And bear in mind the linkage between the symbols (iron,male,mars = war,
compare with copper,female,venus), altogether these reinforce a strong
masculine image. Perhaps, although not explicit, this was also passing
through the creators minds? Note also in this egalitarian age, the
symbol is much deprecated. You won't find it on the Volvo website for
example.

I guess my feeling is that a good symbol has many levels. I suspect
this one has them all. As for the name, its best defining feature is
almost certainly easy and unmistakeable pronunciation through Europe,
and a good sound in Swedish, first, and a meaning afterwards.

 

Re: You are correct (Orlando)

I can tell you that Fords influence on Volvo Finance has been great.

 

Re: You are correct (Orlando)

Quote, originally posted by Orlando »

Hi there. I asked the nephew for some advice on this topic. He is a Latin scholar. Well Volvo certainly does mean "I roll". The symbol is certainly the ancient alchemical symbol for iron (http://www.chemsoc.org/viselements/pages/alchemist/alc_iron.html - rather neatly the Royal Society of Chemistry acknowledging its now somewhat discredited roots). So together I think the story is plausible. It certainly is accepted as truth by some Volvo enthusiasts (http://www.volvospy.com/resources/humor/humor.php - rather a lot to read here, but search for iron and you'll get the reference). However your reference to the male sex symbol is also, of course, apt. And bear in mind the linkage between the symbols (iron,male,mars = war, compare with copper,female,venus), altogether these reinforce a strong masculine image. Perhaps, although not explicit, this was also passing through the creators minds? Note also in this egalitarian age, the symbol is much deprecated. You won't find it on the Volvo website for example. I guess my feeling is that a good symbol has many levels. I suspect this one has them all. As for the name, its best defining feature is almost certainly easy and unmistakeable pronunciation through Europe, and a good sound in Swedish, first, and a meaning afterwards.

It's plausible because it is true

The predecessor of Volvo Car was SKF, the ball bearing maker.
"Volvo" was an unused trademarked name.
Assar Gabrielson wanted something to symbolize that this new car was made of Swedish steel and parts.
Prior to Volvo, American cars were assembled from kits and were marketed as Swedish built.
Gabrielson wanted the symbol for steel on the car to remind consumers that this was a homegrown product. Sweden exported alot of steel in those days.

The symbol has made a comeback of sorts, its back on the steering wheels and its is prominent in the grill.

Finally, 60% of Volvo's customers are women and they don't bat an eye at the symbol. They are more interested in the substance of the car than in any symbolism.
I think the symbols on the German cars could be considered more objectionable. BMW's spinning propeller, symbolizing the WWII FW-190's and of course, the Benz star adorning every Nazi staff car.
Bottom line, they are just symbols get over it.

 

My Apologises

Good morning.

Sorry I said anything.

Cheers

 

Re: Ford and its influence on Volvo (Barry)

Ford's influence on Volvo has already crossed the line slightly

Look at the interior of the new S40 and V50: materials quality (have you seen those plastics??), leather aspect (and quality), etc.... all that looks very familiar with the new Ford Focus we have here in Europe... really cheap aspect!!

 

Re: Ford and its influence on Volvo (Arnaud S40)

Quote, originally posted by Arnaud S40 »

Ford's influence on Volvo has already crossed the line slightly Look at the interior of the new S40 and V50: materials quality (have you seen those plastics??), leather aspect (and quality), etc.... all that looks very familiar with the new Ford Focus we have here in Europe... really cheap aspect!!

I don't know. I like them better than what was in the old S40.
Or how bout those POS 340's and 440's??
Your not going to get luxury touches in a cheap car.

 

Re: Ford and its influence on Volvo (VolvoMax)

Quote, originally posted by VolvoMax »

Your not going to get luxury touches in a cheap car.

In France, Volvo's are not considered as cheap cars, even the small S40.
I find that the quality of the materials (not the assembly level) in our 97' S40 is better than the ones in the new S40 (especially the plastics used on the doors).

The best for me would be the assembly level of the new S40 with the materials of the old one.