I always manually hazard light flash when I brake heheh

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

 

I would love to swap on my wagon. Amber tails are always better.

 

Not LIN I am surprised on the -60!

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

 

Thanks very much for the detailed post. Nice work. Excellent info and photos. Seems to me getting the lights may be the hardest part.

 

I would rather have amber signals as well, and I can't quite understand Volvo's rationale here since, as you point out, it looks as red as you want it to until it starts blinking. Ultimately I think the expense and hassle of swapping are just one step further than I'm willing to go myself, but I appreciate that you are getting this information out into the universe!

 

It’s because the USA and Canada do not require Amber rear turn signals, though they are allowed as an option, BUT they do have some older illuminated surface area requirements for brake lights that some of the European designs do not meet. In order to avoid a major redesign, many manufacturers instead opt to change the turn signal to red, and then use that area as a brake signal as well in order to meet the surface area requirement.

The surface area requirement stems from a time before modern super bright bulbs and LEDs, when they felt you needed that larger surface area lit to be safely visible.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

In order to avoid a major redesign, many manufacturers instead opt to change the turn signal to red, and then use that area as a brake signal as well in order to meet the surface area requirement.

But Volvo doesn’t do that. The turn signals are just that — turn signals.

 

if one were to swap with Euro Amber Turn enabled Tails. Is it a simple swap or is coding involved for the emergency braking function?

 

* - The tail lamps don't need any "config change" to work. There is one thing though...the "emergency braking" function, when you brake hard, on the US car it is set to add the turn signa area (as it is red) when this fucntion engages. It will be amber if you swap the euro tails. I have changed this on my car to european setting that does not use the signal area for this function. You don't need to do it, but if you do change config on your car, you can change it. In OrBit, it's Item #114, change "04" to "03" or "02" if you want hazard light flash ;-)

Never mind! Thanks for this explanation.

 

Glad you like them. There aren't that many S60's on the roads here. I'd say that 80% is V60 and 20% is S60. The chance of finding a car that has both rear lights intact is practically 0. But I'll keep an eye on it and hopefully find another one.

 

The red turn signals are something I've started to see on many car manufacturers lately, can someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn in the US it was required by NHTSA to be amber back in the late 80's early 90's; just as they required manufactured to have TPMS instead of WSS which we know most Euro manufactures somehow loopholed around that.

 

I think we've always just required the red light that marks the tail of the car, lights brighting for braking and blinks for turning. Most American-made cars got away with the most basic setup they legally could, with the exception of perhaps the captive imports they brought in from overseas and sold under US badges.

Volvo was always good about dividing those 3 functions into three separate lights, removing ambiguity. The turn signal being red diminishes that just a bit in my opinion.

 

I must really be in the minority. I really, REALLY dislike amber on the back of the car. I do see the (minimal) benefit, but also see a lot of downsides. So far, I am glad that the USA doesn't require that "Euro Look" Out of the dozens of vehicles I've owned, I think less than 5 had amber in the rear (and I bulb swapped 1 of those to red).

 

What would be the downside of amber lights as turn signals?

 

I personally prefer the red turn signal. But I would have waited for the LCI tail light to come out before I made any changes. Much like the S90 LCI tail lights

 

This is a study done from NHTSA just food for thought

 

Hmmm @Pioneer4x4 that sounds thin to me haha, distinguishing the side of a car not been a problem for me ha. But we can still be friends ;-)

General comments since there is so much talk:

Maybe US lights are required, other than the red turn signal being used:
The lights are indentical! Side reflectors on both (US required) and the turn signal area is the same, the whole housing is the same molding, that's probably why there is not a part number molded in. That was my basis for thinking this has to be a pure style thing, which the Euro mfrs seem to be known for. Seems extra small thing as the lens itself is red!

Emergency brake area:
Does use the turn signal area on US cars, it's a config item and confirmed in another thread from a picture of my car at the track. Seems that was pretty clear and confirmed but still discussion about it ;-)

 

View attachment 179987

Nice job, OP!
Do you mind disclosing the cost of the replacement tails were?

 

For those doubting the effectiveness of Amber/yellow turn signals
https://www.acarplace.com/2018/01/index/

 

Still not interested, and that is ooooolllldddddd data, today's LEDs are way more effective, probably enough to negate any findings. They ramp up and down basically instantly instead of the gradual heat/cool cycle of incandescent, so they could be purple and be more effective.
But eh, doesn't matter how I feel, or any of you either. Feds make the laws, and I can't vote for a guy specifically because of light bulb color. (I would though )
Nobody debates the whole tinted/smoked lights like the amber/red topic. And that is the real safety issue out there.
I regularly see vehicles with back lights so dark you can't tell if they are on or not. Then the jackasses out there that don't use turn signals, or even headlights at night. Because of DRLs, they think lights are on, and the dash is now a computer display, so they can see it at night without lights on... I even have seen people complain that at night the dash is too bright, because... THEY DIDN'T HAVE HEADLIGHTS ON! SO from the rear, they are in stealth mode, jackasses, all of them.

 

OK red light lover hahaha. One thing I forgot is at least on the Volvo they are separate lamps, so the red turn signal is not shared with the brake light. Which probably counts for something. You get those wierdos on and off the brakes while they slow for a turn...with shared bulb/LEDs...which direction who knows.

I think we don't bring up the tinted tails here, in this thread, since that's not what I did to the car, there is no debate to be had on that. I don't do tinted lights myself, for the record.

Now if this thing is gonna go off the rails lets talk about the most egregious lighting issue...the GM cars that light up the reverse lights when unlocked remotely. I been fooled for a sec many times by those driving through parking lots. Looks like a car is in reverse, off the brake. Those "too clever" GM engineers...sheesh!

 

OK red light lover hahaha. One thing I forgot is at least on the Volvo they are separate lamps, so the red turn signal is not shared with the brake light. Which probably counts for something....

Yep, I agree, should be separate, but not hidden down low like some of the Korean cars. (I've owned 2, and loved them both)

... lets talk about the most egregious lighting issue...the GM cars that light up the reverse lights when unlocked remotely. I been fooled for a sec many times by those driving through parking lots. Looks like a car is in reverse, off the brake. Those "too clever" GM engineers...sheesh!

Dang, I agree with you there as well. Until I get one of them. I've had a lot of GMs in my life, only recent ones were Cadillacs (2xSRX,1xXT5) and I don't think that they did it. I get it, safetly/path lighting for when you are approaching it, great for the owner. But it SUCKS when you are parking and see that Equinox or whatever, and you wait for it to back out, then see the owner walking up to it (or away!). RRRGGGHHHHHH
And this is what I mean about Hyundai (I think this is a good example) Look where the turn signals are way down low.
Color is the least of their issues.

 

My '12 CTS Coupe does that, lights up the reverse lights when unlocking and remote starting

Amber turns all the way!! The V90 (pre-facelift) has a dim incandescent turn signal bulb that lights up red on our models, and amber overseas by way of a green filter behind their red lens. A suitable amber LED type will still show amber through the red lens, as the euro Volvo LED tails do.

No comparison on intensity and therefore visibility/safety:

Amber front DRLs on the other hand, are a north american privilege and we should count our luck for being able to get that.

 

While I get that some folks like the aesthetic design of red and white backs of their cars. I disagree with your argument about Amber lights only make sense in the front. Indicator lights should be consistent. Amber in the front? Then Amber in the back. If I am driving towards someone turning to my right, then the turn lights mean the same thing regardless of their car's position.

The key work is consistency.

I added Amber turn signal lights to my Ranger for this reason. I will continue to push for consistency cause when someone in front of me is turning, I want to know and not get confused by red brake lights.

And since Thor is PA too. I am happy to meet up and discuss this over a coffee @Pioneer4x4

 

@Power6 looks beautiful keep up the great work!

 

What the heck, lets add 1 more situation to my point against amber at both ends.
Personally, I ignore the "Amber is more visible than Red" totally, if that was an actual fact, for safety, overall, then ALL lights would be amber. Brake lights are what I consider THE MOST IMPORTANT lights on a car. And why does nobody say "Brake lights should be Amber?"
Anyway, ignoring that...
Say you see lights on the road ahead, you see 2 white lights and a flashing amber light near the right side white light.
Call it foggy/dark, reasonable distance.
Is this a car in reverse with right turnsignal on, or a car driving forward with left turn signal on?
And yes, I have strong opinions on this, and I don't see any good counter arguments why front and rear turn signals should be the same. Anything that helps you determine what way a car is facing and their intentions at night has to be better, right?
The whole "amber vs red" on your brain/eyes is a different discussion, and I can't speak to that. Other than if amber does trigger your brain somehow better, and it is a fact, then why aren't brake lights amber?
And I'm not against people feeling different, and don't car if you change your car (as long as it is legal), just that I wouldn't want to buy it after.
And I am all for turn signal indicators mounted on side mirrors, both behind the glass, and on the front, also in amber (they are on the front ½ of the car)

 

What the heck, lets add 1 more situation to my point against amber at both ends.
Personally, I ignore the "Amber is more visible than Red" totally, if that was an actual fact, for safety, overall, then ALL lights would be amber. Brake lights are what I consider THE MOST IMPORTANT lights on a car. And why does nobody say "Brake lights should be Amber?"
Anyway, ignoring that...
Say you see lights on the road ahead, you see 2 white lights and a flashing amber light near the right side white light.
Call it foggy/dark, reasonable distance.
Is this a car in reverse with right turnsignal on, or a car driving forward with left turn signal on?
And yes, I have strong opinions on this, and I don't see any good counter arguments why front and rear turn signals should be the same. Anything that helps you determine what way a car is facing and their intentions at night has to be better, right?
The whole "amber vs red" on your brain/eyes is a different discussion, and I can't speak to that. Other than if amber does trigger your brain somehow better, and it is a fact, then why aren't brake lights amber?
And I'm not against people feeling different, and don't car if you change your car (as long as it is legal), just that I wouldn't want to buy it after.
And I am all for turn signal indicators mounted on side mirrors, both behind the glass, and on the front, also in amber (they are on the front ½ of the car)

I think this is more of a distinction/preference of the other car's physical orientation. e.g. the crux of your POV is that seeing red turn signal tells you the car in front of you is traveling forward in the same direction as you, while amber turn lights tell you the other car is coming towards you.

if that is a correct assessment, I think the distinction, while interesting, is more niche; and ultimately takes more time for someone to process. Drivers may not have all the time/attention/focus to decode direction by virtue of the color of the light; and may not ultimately care/matter. I just want to know if a car in front of me is turning or braking. I don't want to mix the established colors for different uses. Turning is amber. Braking is red. both of those are far more valuable by a factor of 1000% vs the direction of the car.

 

@Pioneer4x4
Following behind a car:
When you are driving and signal left or right to make a turn in the city do you apply the brakes? The red lights indicate to the driver behind you to slow down. Say you signal to turn, then applied the brakes and your complete taillight is red including the turn signal, how safe do you really think that is? I have one visible cue, that being there is a blinking red light surrounded by a sea of red(generally at the same lumen). If you have amber turn signals it is a vastly profound difference in color not surround by a sea of red, which helps the eye/brain/driver to anticipate the actions of the driver they are behind.

There is a science to why we register colors to certain items, actions, exc... I can't speak for you but at least when I went through drivers safety schooling, i was at least taught that turn signals are 95% amber also that on off chances they could just be a white/yellowish indicate, never red! I'm not sure of your age or where in the country you grew up and live currently, but this could also be the cause of why you said in an earlier post you grew up seeing this style of lighting on cars.

At the end of the day agencies that have actually spent more time and money on this issue are showing that you have a higher chance of being in a fender bender with the red light turn signals as opposed to amber.

You are fully inclined to have an opinion, but please do not say there are "a lot of downsides" without data to show it.

 

@Pioneer4x4
✔ -> I have one visible cue, that being there is a blinking red light surrounded by a sea of red(generally at the same lumen). If you have amber turn signals it is a vastly profound difference in color not surround by a sea of red, which helps the eye/brain/driver to anticipate the actions of the driver they are behind.

✔ -> There is a science to why we register colors to certain items, actions, exc...

✔ -> At the end of the day agencies that have actually spent more time and money on this issue are showing that you have a higher chance of being in a fender bender with the red light turn signals as opposed to amber.

✔ -> You are fully inclined to have an opinion, but please do not say there are "a lot of downsides" without data to show it.

Amen on all points.

Science & Data do not lie. People do.

 

I'd like to add my opinion here. I would prefer the amber tails. ANY lights on the road get my attention. I don't take the time to try and determine the car's direction by the light color/configuration. Makes about as much sense as staring into oncoming headlights to be sure they have their high beams on. If I see ANY lights ahead of me, I know there is a vehicle of some sort ahead of me. Then I make sure I don't run into it or it into me. Besides lots of customization is available out there. Just because a car left the factory a certain way doesn't mean it stays that way. So you can't take light color as an absolute. There is no substitute for paying attention and being aware of your surroundings.

@Pioneer4x4 if you saw this guy on the road ahead of you, you'd really have issues.

 

LOL, I love it, and wonder what it is like at night. He has the best backup lights, that's for sure!
Here is a similar clip I recorded at the Woodward Dream Cruise in 2018.

You have to be quick to see it in the video

 

While I love the idea of amber turn signals I'm not sure its worth the effort for me. Thankfully Volvo has sperate lamps for the signal so it doesn't bother me as much. Not like most of the European brands using the brake light as turn.

 

But seriously, the fact that the US managed to con all of these European brands into making merican "all red" tail light versions is a hilarious flex, take that yuros!!! I guess? Meanwhile Asian brands don't care, amber rear turns for all markets.
There is no logical reason for imported brands to offer special American red rear lights. None. Their normal amber versions are perfectly legal and would sell the same. But apparently US tastes are towards all red, and here we are. Audi had to cobble a solution for their sequential turn signals to meet US regs, which is why you see the brakes and red sequential turns in tandem. Huge flex.

My Cadillac uses brakes for turns. It's a North American privilege that the rest of the world envies. It's a callback to the good ol days where the financial decision had to be made, whether to implement an amber turn bulb, or repurpose the existing brake bulb. Guess which choice won? And the cars that use the same red bulb for running lights along with brake/turn functions, that's even better.

On the other hand, US brands also have to modify their tails for export sales, to include amber turns AND rear red fogs. Cadillac tails look and function completely different than at home, it's pretty neat. And trucks with amber DRLs have to deal with that too.