OK. Let's try a simpler question that any Drive-E owner should be able to answer.
When you checked your oil, did you ever see any reading not exactly at MAX, like the picture above? If so, please describe it for us. Thanks.

 

No answers yet from a Volvo tech?
I would assume the spread between min/max to be 1 liter?... So just below "Min", add 1/2 qt? Time will tell I guess.

 

Thanks for your reply. Yeah, it's likely 1 liter (1.0566 US Qt.) from min to max, so each tic mark is 1/4 liter or 8.453 fluid oz. (US).
The MY15 manual doesn't give this info for the conventional dipstick either, but says:
"1. Pull out the dipstick and wipe it with a lint-free rag.
2. Reinsert the dipstick, pull it out, and check the oil level. The level must be between the MIN and MAX marks.
3. Add oil if necessary. If the level is close to the MIN mark, add approximately 0.5 US quarts (0.5 liters) of oil.
4. Recheck the level and add more oil if necessary until the level is near the MAX mark."
I was hoping to learn the resolution of the digital dipstick, i.e. the smallest increment it can display.. the smaller the better and more like the conventional dip stick

I am also disappointed at the lack of answers, both from techs and owners. I will contact our dealer, then share what I learn here.

 

I honestly do not know the answer to the question. I do have some vague recollection from the webinar that the display will read "MAX" until the oil level has dropped quite a bit. Certainly more than a quarter liter per mark.

VIDA will read the precise oil level from the oil level sensor.

 

Interesting..



Thanks. so the precise level is available on the OBD port? If so, I should be able to read it using OBDScan and the Torque App. But on first look, I could not find an oil level parameter in the list.

 

UPDATE: I fixed the picture links to flickr. We are now over 4K miles, but the oil readout still says exactly full.

Has anyone with a Drive-E engine seen any oil level reading other than MAX? If so, please describe it for us. No one seems to know for sure the resolution or smallest difference it can indicate.

I look forward to doing an extra DIY oil change soon. Any suggestions on how to get the level to MAX will be appreciated. I may just measure how much old oil drained out, including filter, then put in that exact amount of new oil.

 

I just had to retake a webinar from December 2013 on the new engines.

In between gulps of Guiness, I think they said the readout will always show full until it is 1 quart low, at which time there will be a message "add oil" or some such.

 

Thanks..hope you enjoyed the stout!

I can accept that it would give a warning message, e.g. when you try to start it, if it gets more than a quart low. But when you take an action to check the oil and it displays a bar graph with 6 segments (each 1/4 quart), I would expect 1/4 quart or finer resolution in the readout. Anything bigger is misleading and vastly inferior to a conventional dip stick. What were they thinking?

Earlier, you wrote "VIDA will read the precise oil level from the oil level sensor." Does oil level appear on the OBD port?

 

Many thanks for your thorough explanation.

 

Our Volvo was at the dealer today for an unrelated problem and I asked them to check the oil level. They handed me a readout that showed 41.37 mm. average on a time graph with a scale of 41 - 42 mm, at 70.38°C.

It further shows 36.33 mm TEMPERATURE COMPENSATED, which is equivalent to 5.08 Litre (Including 0.4 L in filter). The service manager said it is fine and Drive-E engines are not using any oil. But he didn't know how many mm means full, one quart low, etc. There must be a table somewhere.....

 

Eureka!

I found the following info on a UK Castrol web site....
http://competition.castrol.co.uk/top-up.html
It clearly shows that the resolution of the digital indicator is 1/4 liter (assuming that MAX-MIN = 1 liter), as well as how to top up the oil, so that question is finally answered!

[/URL]OilTopUp by tonyjag06, on Flickr[/IMG]:
Now why couldn't Volvo put that info, which looks like Volvo-style diagrams, in the owners manual?

 

Would you really want real-time monitoring of oil level in the oil pan? That level (even if averaged over a few minutes like for gasoline) is going to bounce all over the place. One moment it would show full, the next 2 (or more) quarts down as you climb a long hill under throttle (tilt and oil up in the galleys). I can see Mr/Mrs I-don't-know-cars-other-than-where-gasoline-goes freaking out, pulling to the side of the road, and calling Volvo Assist. For liability purposes, a tow truck would have to be dispatched to make sure something didn't puncture the pan.

 

Of course not. Just as with a real dipstick, the level can only be measured when the engine is not running, as you have pointed out. You can't even open the electric oil check function while the engine is running. If the pan were punctured, loss of oil pressure would trigger an immediate warning and a tow truck would indeed be needed.

But when you do check the oil level, IMHO the resolution of the measurement should be comparable to that of the dipstick that has been replaced, not the binary (OK or Low) indication that Volvo has provided. I would be OK with the 1/4 L resolution shown in the UK Castrol site shown in post #13.

 

It seems Volvo designed the system for ordinary folks who are overwhelmingly not interested in checking oil level, let alone doing oil changes themselves; i.e., the system checks the oil level automatically and informs the driver when to add oil. The design of the gauge says to me that, as long as the level is in the acceptable range, it's irrelevant whether the oil volume is, say 4.9 liters 5.2 liters. The less messing around with adding oil the better it is for ordinary folks, and there's less risk of overfilling. The system is completely hands-off unless something is awry (e.g, a leak, botched oil change, excessive oil consumption), which to me is a good thing.

The problem I see is that neither the manual nor the Castrol page specifies how much oil should be added when the level drops to min and the "add oil" message appears. That information is provided for models with dipsticks, so my guess is that's merely an oversight.

The typical Volvo dipstick has only a min and a max mark, i.e, no volume markings in quarts/liters. How do you figure out how much oil to refill when changing oil on such a vehicle?

I've never done an oil change myself, but I'll take a stab at it: Add about 1 quart of oil less than the specified oil capacity since the engine is already wet, check the level and then add more oil a little at a time until the level is close to max. It's quicker on subsequent oil changes if you remember the refill volume from the first oil change. It seems to me the same procedure would work with the electronic sensor, and you have already done your first oil change.

 

.......The less messing around with adding oil the better it is for ordinary folks, and there's less risk of overfilling.....

The typical Volvo dipstick has only a min and a max mark, i.e, no volume markings in quarts/liters. How do you figure out how much oil to refill when changing oil on such a vehicle?

I've never done an oil change myself, but I'll take a stab at it: Add about 1 quart of oil less than the specified oil capacity since the engine is already wet, check the level and then add more oil a little at a time until the level is close to max. .....

I think it increases the risk of overfill because once the level crosses the threshold, the indicator no longer tells you how much oil is in there, it just says OK. There must be another higher threshold though, because the manual supplement (post#1) mentions that you may get a message like oil service required if it is overfilled.

Most cars just have a MAX and a MIN mark on their dipstick, but by convention, the difference in oil level between MAX and MIN is one quart or one liter. When changing oil, you first put in most of the oil , e.g. all but one quart as you suggested. It is best to then start the engine to fill the filter etc., check for leaks, then let it sit for a while before taking a reading. With a conventional dipstick, you can tell exactly what the level is by the position of the oil line relative to the marks. With one reading, you can judge how much oil to add. For example, if the level is below MIN by 1/4 of the distance between MAX and MIN, you would add 1 1/4 quarts, then check it again and it should be right at MAX. Before you fully understand the calibration of the dipstick, you might add a quart, take another reading that should be 3/4 above MIN, then add 1/4 quart and do a final check.

The conventional dipstick can even read below MIN or above MAX. What Volvo gave us just tells you whether the level is above (OK) or below some threshold near MIN, so you cannot see the effect of adding "more oil a little at a time until the level is close to max." Likewise, you can't see any trend in oil consumption over time.

What worries me is the following case. The car's drivers* check the level often before starting just as the manual suggests and it always reads OK, showing the level at MAX. So they believe that the engine is not using any oil and decrease the frequency of checking...a natural reaction. But the engine is consuming oil and the actual level is decreasing. Just before the actual level reaches the threshold near MIN, the display is misleading by a whole quart. While the engine is OK for a while at this level, the reserve oil supply is gone. I never let my cars get anywhere more than a quarter of a quart low, especially turbos. The older Saabs liked to be overfilled by 1/2 quart, which quieted the timing chain and reduced wear.

*One advantage of the electronic dipstick is that it is easier than raising the hood, wiping off the dipstick with a rag, etc. so a non-mechanically inclined spouse can be taught to do it.

 

I looked into other electronic dipstick implementations:
BMW:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1250100&i=20
"Patrick Bateman said:
By electronic one I meant one actually showing you the oil level, not a warning when it was low.
but the electronic reader does show you the level in 0.25L increments (except the M6 which is 0.1L increments, not sure about E65 7 series or M5....but the M3 is at least"

Porsche:
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/16951-dipstick-display-print.html
"In the case of the digital gauge, where each Bar represents roughly 8oz."

Audi:
I couldn't find anything on resolution of the display at first, but plenty of resistance to removing the real dipstick. But on some engines, they left a hole where you can fit a dipstick, so some have both and guess what...they don't always agree!
UPDATE: I found the following:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=536439
"My vehicle is a 2011 335i, now with 4000 miles. I would like to share my experience reading engine oil level with the electronic wizardry built into the system.

To begin with, it is clear to me (and I have had a couple of prior E90's) that the oil level reading is subjected to fairly crude quantization. If it is not at the 'full' level, the next step down is what I will refer to as '-1/4 quart."

General:
http://jalopnik.com/5522543/why-the-dipstick-is-dying

Audi, BMW, Porsche:
It's the comatose drivers....
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/22/technology-alert-the-dipsticks-demise-is-blamed-on-dilatory-dr/

Conclusion: quantization (smaller is better) of German electronic dipsticks is 0.1 to 0.25 L.
Quantization of Volvo 5 cylinder diesel electronic dipsticks is 0.25 L.
Unless ours is broken, Quantization of Volvo Drive-E electronic dipsticks is AT LEAST 1 L, depending on what the overfill threshold is. Clearly inferior and misleading, especially with no conventional dipstick.

 

I already heard back from Volvo NA. They have forwarded my email to Volvo's Engineering Department. I can hardly wait to read their response.

 

I was very disappointed in the "engineering" response. There is unfortunately not a defect in our electronic dipstick, Volvo actually designed it to hide detailed oil level information and Volvo NA attempted to defend that. And the TPMS indeed has issues. I just drafted a 4-page response and will summarize the outcome here. Meanwhile, if anyone wishes to see the correspondence, please send me your email address in a private message. Stay tuned!

 

Hi

I understand the move to an electronic dipstick in order to give customer's the ability to check their oil level without lifting the hood.

A recent survey in the UK showed that 95% of car owners would only check their oil once the low oil pressure light came on. Of those surveyed, 90% couldn't open the bonnet without first consulting the owners manual.

however... whilst an electronic dipstick hardware must be sufficiently reliable to warrant its launch in a product, a back up manual dipstick should also be provided. At least as a cross check for technicians (or those who can open the hood!). Also the electronic dipstick needs a high level of fidelity to be useful and available to the owner. If Volvo doesn't provide a mechanical dipstick kit or retrofit kit or option on the VEA engines then I hope an aftermarket company figures out an option fast.

Amongst friends and colleagues, most would never check their oil or any fluid level. Mechanically knowledgeable people would do so. Making the system easy for the "non-opening hood" brigade shouldn't preclude fitting a system to provide a reliable manual back up. Those who never open the hood are free to do so even on a car with a dipstick. However, you shouldn't preclude those who want to check their oil or complete their own servicing. Level sensors can fail and aging effects should be considered.

(I do appreciate gearboxes (manual), differentials, cooling systems and power steering have no warning system for low levels. (mid 90s saw many have low coolant level lights and an on/off level warning for oil)). So if you choose to never check these levels then so be it - your failing! However, should you wish to open the hood and check these levels, all can be done easily. You wouldn't fit a sealed cooling system or non translucent expansion tank and tell people to rely on the level switch only. Yes we all rely on fuel level floats but these senders do fail sometimes and a stalling car that ran out of fuel isn't the same as engine failure due to a lack of oil.)

Engine oil level is too critical to only rely on an electronic sensor with no simple physical check as a back up.

 

Thanks for the excellent post, we appreciate your support! --From a member of the mechanically knowledgeable, opening hood brigade, apparently a minority these days.

There has been no response yet this week from Volvo NA.

 

This whole thing is really disappointing. I was ready to accept an electronic dipstick that still lets me check oil level, but not one that doesn't tell me how much oil is in the pan. I'll buy something else before I give up on what I consider to be basic maintenance.

 

Why design it this way?

I've been thinking about this a bit, wondering what the engineering team could have been thinking when they designed the electonic oil gauge/display and removed the dipstick. Since no explanation seems to be forthcoming from Volvo I guess we're free to speculate.

In the old setup, the dipstick showed a range which was "OK" (the crosshatched area between MIN and MAX). The range was used because the actual level varied due to a number of factors (temperature, incline of the vehicle, amount of oil which was somewhere up in the engine or filter and not drained into the pan) but wherever the level was indicated, it was still OK if it was in the crosshatched range. The instructions for checking were to check it cold, on a level surface, or at least let it drain for a while if it had been recently run to get a more accurate reading. For people who actually checked the dipstick, the indicated level could vary from time to time based on these factors. A conscientous owner might improve the consistency of the results by always checking in the driveway before the car was started in the morning, or always checking at the gas station close to home after filling the tank and letting the oil settle into the pan for a few minutes. But, it seems obvious that the correct level is not an absolute level (such as 40mm) unless the readings are taken under controlled conditions which are probably beyond the capability or at least the attention span of most owners.

It is also worth pointing out that the dipstick, for all its 2 foot length, provides only a tiny indicator range at the end to measure oil level. It's not like you're getting a full range measurement as if you had poured the oil into a graduated cylinder, you only see a small window around the expected full mark. And, since the oil pan is a shallow, wide container, you will not get the consistency of readings that you would get with a tall narrow container. You measure your flour in a measuring cup, not in a cake pan. Since the dipstick is inverted with the tip facing down into the oil pan, as the level drops it passes the end of the stick a bit below the MIN mark, so past that point you have no idea how much oil is in the pan, just that it's too low to register. And, I'm fairly confident that even when the level has passed the MIN mark (or even if it fails to register because it is just below the end of the stick) there must be a reasonable safety margin between a low level indicated on the dipstick and the level where the low pressure warning light would come on and engine damage would become imminent.

So, the dipstick has it's own set of limitations.

In replacing the dipstick with an electronic sensor, which approach would be chosen?

They could provide a binary sensor and indicator, but since the correct level is actually a range and not an absolute, 2 sensors would be required to define the MIN and MAX of the OK range. The corresponding display would then just read OK or NOT OK.

They could instead provide an absolute oil level sensor (calibrated in mm) which would correspond to the dipstick. This sensor would still be subject to the same variation as the dipstick (assuming it's in the same location), yet it's nature would tend to lend more credence to its accuracy than actually exists. Under perfect conditions a reading of 40mm might be considered correct, but due to the known variations there would still be a range which was OK, perhaps 35-45mm. From the VIDA readout it appears that this sensor does actually exist, and some feel that since it does this information should be displayed to the owner on the dashboard. The drawback of this is that an owner might feel that normal variations in the absolute reading constitute a problem, when in fact they are just normal variations. The 1 mm resolution of the sensor is finer than would be detectable on a dipstick, and would show a lot more variation than could be detected by visual inspection on a dipstick, which is not calibrated beyond the crosshatching. A technician might use this information, but not many owners would know how to interpret it.

So there is a second approach to the display of this information, which seems to have been chosen by Volvo, which instead presents an analogue to the OK range of the dipstick. The normal variations do not appear on the display, just a graphic showing that the level is in the OK range and a message that it is in fact OK. This prevents unnecessary problem reports due to normal variation, but also provides the very real benefit of automatically checking the oil level frequently and providing a warning message if the level drops below the OK range. Presumeably this warning comes long before the level reaches the critical point where engine damage is imminent, functioning in the same way as the disptick would, assuming it were checked regularly. If the car is taken to the dealership then the actual oil level history can still be extracted using VIDA and used for diagnosis. What the owner does not get is the ability to, by carefully controlling his observations and reducing variability due to the factors noted above, detect a trend. We're talking about a small percentage of owners here, but it's a real shortcoming.

For the vast majority of owners, the new electronic implementation is beneficial, because it provides automatic oil level checks and warnings. For those it is better than having the old dipstick. For the minority who actually pay attention to oil level, it provides the same benefit, but could be made better by either leaving the dipstick as a backup, and/or by making it clear what the electronic display is actually showing. The segmented design implies that there is more accuracy than there really is. It seems that in fact the accuracy is the same as the crosshatched area on the dipstick, indicating that the level is either OK or not, and if not, then the owner should add oil until it is again OK.

The diesel version seems to work differently, with the segmented level meter actually reflecting the absolute reading from the sensor, at least in segments corresponding to what could be discerned by visual inspection of a dipstick. So, it's possible that this may change in the future, and perhaps the current display is simply a victim of circumstance. Maybe the required sensor was unavailable or not up to spec, or the engineering team simply ran out of time to implement the graduated display. Maybe it does exist but the software wasn't ready in time and it will magically appear with an update. It would not surprise me if someone decided to just have it read MAX all the time until it was down below MIN and thought that the omission would go unnoticed. I bet that it will be fixed to match the diesel implementation at some point.

This is all just my opinion and conjecture of course, and I would personally prefer an old fashioned dipstick as a backup.

Anyone care to poke holes in this?

 

Wow, you certainly have been thinking about this issue! Thanks for your detailed post. I generally concur, but have a few comments:

.....In the old setup, the dipstick showed a range which was "OK" (the crosshatched area between MIN and MAX)......

I have never seen a Volvo dipstick, but any car I have owned has 2 marks on the dipstick, corresponding to MIN and MAX. Here is my Acura RSX dipstick:

[/URL]RSXdipstick by tonyjag03, on Flickr[/IMG]
By convention, the upper mark (MAX) is the ideal oil level and the lower mark (MIN) is one quart (or liter) down. The "calibration" can easliy be verified as you add oil; I usually do that during the first oil change. These marks are placed by the engine manufacturer to take into account all of the non-linearities due to irregular shape that you mentioned. And the dipstick is usually located near the center to minimize variations due to the car not being level.

It is also worth pointing out that the dipstick, for all its 2 foot length, provides only a tiny indicator range at the end to measure oil level. ....as the level drops it passes the end of the stick a bit below the MIN mark, so past that point you have no idea how much oil is in the pan, just that it's too low to register. ......

Again, my experience is that dipsticks cover a range significantly below MIN. In the photo above, you can see that the dipstick extends about 1.5 quarts below MIN. And in the other direction, it can measure a huge range of overfill.

And, I'm fairly confident that even when the level has passed the MIN mark (or even if it fails to register because it is just below the end of the stick) there must be a reasonable safety margin between a low level indicated on the dipstick and the level where the low pressure warning light would come on and engine damage would become imminent.

Concur, but a whole quart of the reserve is gone, so you wouldn't want to begin a trip like that.

So, the dipstick has it's own set of limitations.

True, but they are well understood and compensated.

....
So there is a second approach to the display of this information, which seems to have been chosen by Volvo, which instead presents an analogue to the OK range of the dipstick. The normal variations do not appear on the display, just a graphic showing that the level is in the OK range and a message that it is in fact OK. This prevents unnecessary problem reports due to normal variation, but also provides the very real benefit of automatically checking the oil level frequently and providing a warning message if the level drops below the OK range.

....For the vast majority of owners, the new electronic implementation is beneficial, because it provides automatic oil level checks and warnings. For those it is better than having the old dipstick.

However, problem reports are nevertheless beginning. A number of displeased Drive-E owners have begun seeing unexpected low oil warnings at low mileages...at least 5 such cases have been mentioned on Swedespeed already. Had they been "checking" the oil level as recommended in the user manual supplement, using the misleading electronic dipstick display, they would have been deceived by an OK message and a bar graph at MAX, even as the true level approached MIN because nearly a liter is gone. Had they been truly checking the oil level, the trend would have been obvious and the warning avoided.

As I wrote to Volvo NA (still no response): "It is not necessary to degrade resolution in order to provide an automatic low oil alert - our 1993 Saab 9000 had both an oil level switch to provide the automatic alert and a dipstick to make measurements. If a driver completely neglects checking oil level, the automatic alert may still save his engine if he finally adds oil. Finer resolution of the oil level display would not matter to him because he was ignoring it anyhow, but it would benefit those who follow the owner's manual, performing a routine oil level check frequently, especially before the first scheduled maintenance. Other makes (e.g. Audi, Porsche, and BMW) have gone to electronic dipsticks yet retained 0.1L to 0.25L resolution, while also providing an automatic indication to add oil. Your answer does not reveal any plausible rationale for this Volvo design, which hides important information. When I see a bar graph, like the fuel gauge or the oil level display, I expect that all of the segments work properly, not turn on/off all together! " [The resolution of the Volvo electronic dipstick display is at least 1L, perhaps more depending on where the overfill threshold mentioned in the owner's manual is...much worse than the industry standard established by the German makes.]

....The diesel version seems to work differently, with the segmented level meter actually reflecting the absolute reading from the sensor, at least in segments corresponding to what could be discerned by visual inspection of a dipstick. So, it's possible that this may change in the future, and perhaps the current display is simply a victim of circumstance. Maybe the required sensor was unavailable or not up to spec, or the engineering team simply ran out of time to implement the graduated display. Maybe it does exist but the software wasn't ready in time and it will magically appear with an update. It would not surprise me if someone decided to just have it read MAX all the time until it was down below MIN and thought that the omission would go unnoticed. I bet that it will be fixed to match the diesel implementation at some point.

As I wrote:
"Volvo NA: There is no planned software upgrade to change what is shown on the electronic dipstick.
Very disappointing. The detailed information is there and Volvo's current implementation is hiding it. Could Volvo re-consider this design and quietly make it part of a future software update so at least some of the utility of the conventional dipstick can be recovered, catching up with industry practice?"
"In both the electronic dipstick and TPMS cases, it appears that the excellent design of the display anticipated more detailed data, but the processing necessary to support it didn't get implemented. Such under-utilized displays and incomplete descriptions in the owner's manual have led to major disappointments that are degrading Volvo's image."
I would be OK with a dipstick readout like the older diesel Volvo, with 1/4L resolution, and share your optimism.

 

Wow, you certainly have been thinking about this issue!

I had a slow day...

By convention, the upper mark (MAX) is the ideal oil level and the lower mark (MIN) is one quart (or liter) down. The "calibration" can easliy be verified as you add oil; I usually do that during the first oil change. These marks are placed by the engine manufacturer to take into account all of the non-linearities due to irregular shape that you mentioned. And the dipstick is usually located near the center to minimize variations due to the car not being level.

If this is the case, then the humble dipstick is more sophisticated that I imagined, and its loss that much more unfortunate. However, given that it's gone, I don't understand why Volvo service folks don't communicate better to the people with questions and complaints on this issue. The LOW OIL warning corresponds to the MIN mark on the old dipstick if I understand correctly, and is not the same as the oil pressure light which truly signals a dire situation. Or is the oil pressure light gone?

Maybe we should start a campaign (like Car and Driver's Save the manuals!:

Save the dipsticks!

 

I had a slow day...

If this is the case, then the humble dipstick is more sophisticated that I imagined, and its loss that much more unfortunate. However, given that it's gone, I don't understand why Volvo service folks don't communicate better to the people with questions and complaints on this issue. The LOW OIL warning corresponds to the MIN mark on the old dipstick if I understand correctly, and is not the same as the oil pressure light which truly signals a dire situation. Or is the oil pressure light gone?

Maybe we should start a campaign (like Car and Driver's Save the manuals!:

Save the dipsticks!

There is indeed still a separate low oil pressure warning light, which certainly signals a much more dire situation than low oil level. If that low oil pressure indicator lights up, it's tow truck time to avoid engine damage. As long as there is enough oil to fill the oil pickup, pump, passages, bearings, oil cooler, etc., there will be oil pressure. That amount of oil is usually much lower than the MIN mark, well off the end of the dipstick. But you don't want to ever get close to that dire situation.

Save the dipsticks!:thumbup:

Volvo NA finally responded this morning. They really aren't answering my questions, but promised to forward them to the engineers in Sweden.
The correspondence it too lengthy to post here, but again, if anyone else wants to see it, send me your email address in a private message.

 

I must admit, this was an interesting read!
When shopping for a new car, the one thing I always ask the sales staff to do, in the showroom, is open the hood. And the first thing I look for is the dipstick! I was a little put off when I didn't find one in the new BMWs.

Knowing how much oil is important, but so is the consistency and color of the oil. An electronic level sensor cannot give you this information. There is a lot more value in knowing this information for diagnosing engine-related issues (for us hood-opening types).

I confess that I have a compulsion to check my coolant, oil and other fluids every (other?) day, so the missing dipstick would be a tragic loss for me.

Sensors will fail but the trusty 'ol dipstick won't.
Save the dipstick.

 

Save the dipstick, or at least replace it with something that works!


Melvin,
Your support on this issue is very welcome and encouraging. Other moderators have mainly steered clear. I am increasingly frustrated with responses from Volvo NA. Today I sent them another email:

"Several weeks have gone by and I have heard nothing from Volvo. Meanwhile, there have been increasing reports world-wide of surprise early-mileage low oil warnings in Drive-E engines, including over 100 from China, some more than once. From a Drive-E owner in China:
"
1), Volvo or the dealers have asked the Drive-E car owner to update the ECM to solve the engine oil burning issue.

2), After the ECM software upgrade, the dealers will refill the engine oil up to 5.9 litres (instead of 5.4L as per the mannual).

In China we have more than 350 Drive-E cars owners have got the call from Volvo dealers to do the 2 points mentioned above."

But these stop gap measures are apparently not being applied in the US. What does this ECM software upgrade do to reduce oil consumption?

Regarding the electronic dipstick, I wouldn't mind if it was designed per industry standard or like Volvo did for 5-cylinder diesels, with oil level display resolution of 0.1-0.25L. What Volvo implemented for Drive-E is inferior and misleading, with oil level resolution of 2L displayed on a gauge that implies 0.25L. It hides information that is available because VIDA can read it with 1 mm resolution. It has caused increasing surprise low-oil warnings to people who check their oil and see the display reading MAX when the real oil level could be up to 1L lower. And at least one overfill because it still says MAX until it is 1 L overfilled, then you get a warning on a different display that isn't even shown in the user manual.

Regarding TPMS, which can't even tell you which axle is low let alone individual tire pressure readouts (becoming commonplace even in lower-cost vehicles), your previous response indicates some progress in the flagship XC90, which will at least have per-axle warnings.

When can we expect to to hear answers to my electronic dipstick questions below from the engineers in Sweden?"

If you want to see the whole email thread, just PM your email address and I will forward it to you.
As a moderator, is there anything you can do to help communicate this issue with Volvo?

BTW, you can still get a small oil sample to examine by opening the filler cap just after the engine has been turned off, then swabbing some oil from the camshaft immediately below.

Related Threads;
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?219564-2015-V60-burning-oil
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...20663-quot-Low-level-engine-oil-warning-quot-on-three-month-brand-new-2015-XC60
Post#54:"Apparently, Mercedes went to an electronic dipstick, then returned to also having a conventional one:
http://www.mbca.org/forum/2011-01-10...ronic-dipstick
Hope springs eternal. "
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?219388-How-to-Change-Drive-E-T6-(and-T5-)-Oil

 

That's the trend. Remove the driver/owner from all but driving. Now, cars even self park. When I purchased my 2012 S60, I failed to notice the lack of a spare tire and temperature gauge. I was aware BMW eliminated the dipstick. Cars, like everything else (cameras particularly) are becoming computers on wheels. Enjoy the ride until Version 2.0 comes out. Soon versions will replace model years. Car owners are being forced to become more disconnected from their cars and more dependent on their dealers for the most simple maintenance tasks. Here in Florida, when the temperature drops, many people find their TPMS light comes on, necessitating a wasteful trip to their tire dealer. Welcome to the 21st century.

 

Tony,

unfortunately, there is nothing more I can do to expedite VCNA's responses to your email inquiries.

 

Tony, thanks for pushing for an answer. Haveing a low oil warning on start up is a great idea.(thats all this electronic dipstick is) General motors started doing that on some of there cars back in the 90's. If we can mandate low tire pressure warning by law why not low fluid levels also. But removing a dipstick is just plain dumb. And I will not accept it. Volvo can give us both electronic and manual. If the old geezer's that are loyal to Volvo want a dipstick they better put one on.
I will not buy a car without one. Period. My first volvo a 2005 s40 awd has been much better than I expected. At 170k miles I have no regrets. Better than expected. If built in china means no dipstick I will not buy another. Sorry guys and I love the new s60 and sx60. No dipstick = no sale for me.

 

What Next?



Thanks for your support! I really feel like Volvo swindled us with the nice looking but very misleading oil level display, which is inferior to industry practice for electronic dipsticks. Had I understood how poorly it works, I'm not sure we would have selected Volvo. I am not sure what to do next. If I don't hear back from Volvo NA after a week, I am going to call them. Otherwise, we are very happy with the car, except for the poor TPMS and omitted front seat pockets, but there are workarounds for those.

I don't think it has anything to do with China. The only made in China part I could find on our T6e XC60 is the spare tire.

 

How about an optional 100 dollar dispstick ? I would love to hear from that guy with the 2 million mile volvo if he could have done it without a dipstick to check oil level ? Seriously how much did they save by pissing people off. Really shows how disconected gealy is from the loyal volvo owners. Hard to believe the new fuel efficent engine's aren't even offered in AWD. Talk about missing the boat from China.

 

I received the following brief reply from Volvo NA today:
"Hello Tony,
Thank you again for your response. I have sent all of your comments over to our engineers. If Volvo provides a software upgrade in the future for the electronic dipstick, your Volvo dealership will be more than happy to perform that upgrade for you. But, as of right now, this is how the dipstick functions to allow the driver to have a safe view of oil level in the vehicle, and if a problem is immanent that it be brought to the Volvo Dealership.
I appreciate your patience and will speak with you shortly with any further information provided from our engineers. ..."

I would love to hear from the actual engineers, but am not sure that will happen without management "filtering", if at all. What concerns me is where else, besides the electronic dipstick and TPMS, such questionable engineering has been practiced.

Does Volvo monitor these forums? So far, I have not referenced Swedespeed in correspondence with them.

BTW, i just picked up my new Apple MacBook Pro to replace one ~4 years old, which had a handy battery check button and a bar graph made of 8 tiny green LEDs on the side of the case..a sort of electronic dipstick that could quickly tell you the battery charge level without booting up. In the new MacBook Pro, it's GONE, (along with the IR port and matte display). Value engineering seems to be distancing us from our hardware.

 

Tony it really stinks that you didn't get an answer. I really like Volvo and plan to buy another new one. But you might as well be talking to a wall. If you want a car with a way to check the oil buy one. Volvo doesn't supply a simple dipstick. Too bad yugo didn't think of that. They could have saved 50 cents.

 

A very interesting thread...and a warning for folks who like knowing what's going on with their engines.