This is great news!
Everyone loves EV's now Volvo will excel in sales by only offering people what they want!
Once they get rid of the hybrid vehicles, reliability reports will improve dramatically.

 

I just had a nice fellow in this morning wishing he could get a V90 PHEV here in the states, but American's generally have poor taste so we've never even had the chance to get one. I'm all for the EVs personally (zero at all to do with the environment, I just like them better), but I want more wagons!!!

 

Disappointing for sure. I think if Volvo embraced the PHEVs more and refined them a bit, they would be unstoppable. Surprised they killed those off when there are PHEV versions of them. Really hope they come out with a capable electric wagon eventually.

The X/C40s are fairly hideous (IMO), and while I like the aesthetic of the XC60s, I just have no desire to be be in an SUV.

 

I think if Volvo embraced the PHEVs more and refined them a bit

refined them a bit?

damn. I thought they were perfect already!

 

I think the T8 in my 24 S60 is one of the best powertrains I have ever owned and I have owned a bunch of performance cars. Until Solid State Batteries are out regular lithium batteries have too many limitations for a lot of drivers. Sure local driving or second car EV's can be great but I would have way to much anxiety for distance trips with today's batteries. I hope Volvo keeps the PHEV around at least until 2030.

 

So those it mean 2025 last year or just for that region? One day I hear no more next day I hear no they are coming…

 

yep. I was told 2026 was the last model year for the V60 T8. But that's the T8.

 

They are a really good system. The reason that the T8 versions don't come here is all about volume. Every variant of drivetrain in a car has to be seperately certified for use in its market and if analytics suggest that it will cost too much to amortize the cost of that certification, it just won't come to our market.

The market in North America on the wagons may be upside down from what it is in Europe - in North America, what we sell are overwhelmingly the raised Cross Country versions, and in Europe it's the opposite.

 

Ford's going the other way.

 

I really like the S60 T8. I think it is a great drivetrain. I think PHEVs are going to be increasingly popular in the US.

I can see in Scandinavia it might be different. We all know about Norway, for instance—almost 90% of cars sold now are EVs.

I would hope the car companies can keep some flexibility. No need to paint yourself into a corner. I think PHEVs are going to be increasingly popular in the US.

 

PHEVs will be popular until the issues with both battery capacity and charge rate are improved, and the charging network is built out. When you can charge as simply as gassing up, and be able to do it reliably all along the highway and most towns (even small ones), people won't have range anxiety anymore. Couple that with BEVs being easier to maintain (which should translate to more reliable as well), and the shift to EVs will push forward more. It's too bad the IRA is taking so long to build the charging network, that really needs to accelerate to get things going in the right direction. In the meantime, PHEVs give decent commuting range so it's like having a BEV in town (unless your commute is long), and there's no range anxiety. It's a good compromise for this period while the charging network catches up, six years from now we should be at the point that it's a much smaller issue...BEVs should be able to go pretty much anywhere at that point. This presumes current carbon reduction guidelines are met and that we don’t move back towards fossil fuels, which would be a tragedy at many levels simply because it would be keeping us from the future of transportation as well as damaging the planet.

 

In urban areas nobody should be concerned anymore really. I can see the PHEVs having legs until the charging infrastructure is sorted.

 

Sad news

Volvo Denmark has announced that it is not possible to order new volvo v60 and v90 anymore.Volvo will only sell electrified cars.

Prices has been removed from Volvo Denmarks homepage.

We can still order the hybrid version of xc60 and the xc90 for a while.

My wife loves our V60 and wants nothing to do with any SUV looking anything.

 

In response to a couple people regarding the issues with current BEV's, I think the issue is availability of, and reliability of, charging stations. Not current battery tech or range.

After living with a BEV with sub optimal charging speeds and only a 220 mile range, I think the issues with current BEV's are overblown, or at least wrongly attributed to the actual problems.

You almost never use your complete battery.

The fastest charging vehicles on the market today (Lucid Air, Porsche Taycan, etc) can replenish 200+ miles of range in 20 minutes. And it's only going to get better.

Flip the problem on it's head. When last measured in 2020, the 150,000 gas stations operating in the US serviced 276 million cars. While statistics don't exist for the number of total pumps in the US, if we assume the average station has between six and 12 pumps, that's around 900,000 to 1.8 million pumps, or 153 to 307 cars per pump.

In 2022 there were roughly 140,000 public EV chargers servicing 1.7 million EVs across the country, or 12 cars per plug. Many of these are Level 2 smart chargers. Together they make between 12 and 25 plugs per EV.

If I snapped my fingers and instantly took away 6-7 out of every 10 gas stations and you had to drive 40-60 miles one way to the nearest one to fill up, and gas stations on road trips were spaced every 150-200 miles, you'd start to have range anxiety with an ICE vehicle too.

Did the car itself change? No. Just the lack of infrastructure supporting it.

Except you can't put a gas station in at every house. Whereas with an EV/PHEV, every outlet becomes a charging station.

I was on vacation recently and used an outside wall outlet at our AirBnB to keep my V60 plugged in the entire time it was at the house. And I was able to drive around the entire week on electric, only using gas for the trip there and back.

But that's just my opinion.

 

I agree and I disagree. Home level 1/2 chargers are pretty slow with our PHEV Volvo’s. I watched this interesting charging video yesterday and I was shocked just how slow charging can be. However I was shocked even more how slow the VW EV’s ran in cold weather. Kinda long but interesting to watch if you have the time.

 

Level 1 and 2 chargers are always going to be on the slow side. The Level 3 (fast chargers) have a lot more juice. It would be cost prohibitive to install it at home but let's face it, if you plug in at the end of the day, does it matter if it's 4 hours or 8 to charge it? Not really.

It's the Level 3 charger infrastructure that needs the improvement. There will also be an element of making the cars more efficient - 20 to 80 percent is 33 minutes now on our EVs and I think this will end up improving.

It's partly why I say over and over again that the styling of cars has to change to get them through the air better. This is why most of the SUV/crossover models from Volvo going forward are said to have more 'estate-like' profiles.

I think we are going to get closer and closer to parity on the cost of producing EV versus ICE cars - Tesla already is but others including Volvo are going to get there. Even with the EX90, much of the reason for the higher pricing versus the XC90 has to do with the LiDAR. If you want the latest technology in anything, you're going to pay for it. There are those that will and those that will wait until the cost goes down.

 

EVs are perfect for suburban living. That is their peak value, and if you live in a suburban area and you hate EVs, you're likely missing out. Not that there are not exceptions, but for most folks, the 200 mile range is way more than needed. PHEVs also are perfect for suburban life, and as folks realize how rare they need more than 40 miles range, I think the idea of going full EV makes even more sense. PHEVs make zero sense to me in urban, because the only way they really work is if you plug in at home and most urban homes done have a dedicated parking spot with charging. BEVs work in urban, but you are dependent on the locations and cost of public charging, so there are ways to make it work, but it has an impact on lifestyle. And rural can certainly work for either as well, but I'd say ICE is still best here. When everything is an hour away, it's not uncommon to do all your trips in one day and then you end up going quite a distance.

 

You all gone be forced to go EV then the rates of electricity gone sky rocket and you will be paying more for electric. Not to mention most states already have stops supporting solar or other free electricity and the electricity companies are changing the structure of production and usage.

government mandates to go EV are just crazy and people supporting it are worse.

if you want one buy it (I got two)… but dot force others to get one. Especially if they have a 20 year old car and they are not planning or can’t afford one. If they don’t have a garage and live in cold climate or 4 seasons, a lot of people just park in on the street differently spot every day or in a public parking garage.

Setting up dates to force people to buy only electric but not taking about million other issues that would need to be addressed is simply stupid

 

No one is forcing anyone to by an EV. The government is changing the incentives to bring us to the point that EVs are palatable to everyone...and it's in our best interest to convert over, cars are about 30% of our greenhouse emissions in the US, in order to meet treaty obligations we have to cut back on engines. EVs will get better, people will chose them, the incentives just help push the process along...and the oil companies are still receiving bigger incentives. Engines won't be going away quite yet, and that 20 year old car will still be allowed on the road (as long as it's legal of course).

And, really, most people would be better off in an EV...the maintenance costs are less (on average), the car drives well enough, and there's no cost for gas and almost no consumables. Add in the ability to have a "full" car every morning, improve the recharging network issues (which will happen over five years), and increase green energy usage, and it's overall much better than everyone driving around in gas cars, even efficient ones (which we all know isn't the case, everyone wants an SUV).

As for electricity...there is motion towards more efficient solar systems and getting them on more roofs, at least in states that aren't influenced by the fossil fuel industry. As more people get solar, that means less money being spent on electricity...we have panels and every mile I have driven my new V60 since Sunday night when I got it home has been free. That will be true of all my commuting during the week, which with my old car cost roughly $1250 per year (with a lowball $5 per gallon which doesn't exist in CA anymore). By itself, that pays for the cost of the solar panel system we have over its lifetime, and that doesn't include all of the other free electricity (we generate more than we use, by a lot). Really, we should be incentivizing houses having a solar system, including a storage battery, it's really the way to go for power...that would distribute the load and leave plenty of capacity when it's necessary. They also are trying to address all of the aspects of this, that was a large part of the infrastructure bill.

It's not a simple transition, but building up our current energy infrastructure wasn't easy either, and it has lots of problems. We really should be making a long term, 20 year plan for the conversion to build a new electrical system, but that's not possible for many reasons in our country. We need to make the transition though, all the greenhouse gas we are dumping into the atmosphere is ruining the planet's habitability, and what's there is already baked in for the next few thousand years. The Earth isn't done adjusting yet to what we've added...it's like when you turn the thermostat up, it takes time for things to warm up, so the Earth still has to catch up to what we've done (and are still doing) to the atmosphere. If we keep going we really will trash the planet, eventually the Earth will go through what Venus did and end up like that, simply because the Sun slowly warms up over time...dumping a bunch of greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere just accelerates the process, and it won't take much to undo the balance, especially since the warming is happening too fast for evolution to allow adaptation. It's going to be painful, but it's also necessary if we care about humanity surviving the next few thousand years.

 

My only complaint I have about my solar system is I didn’t install it sooner. Incentives are always best for the early adopters and are used to move the global population in a direction needed at the time. Just take child care credits, they are used to help more people to be able to work which is a good thing for our economy. Solar incentives help make installing solar to be affordable to the general public while building up our power grid infrastructure. I have put more power on the grid than I use so I am part of the solution and not the cause. I help heat my house with a Mitsubishi 26 seer heat pump reducing my oil usage by 1/3rd and the power it uses is free which is good for my check book and good for the world. My S60 averages about 60 mpg while the car that I traded in did 20. We should all do our part big or small to make this a better world for all. So many ways to help.

 

As stated nobody is forced to by an EV. The state of California is requiring all NEW vehicles sold in the state to be zero emission by 2035. The current US plan is 2/3 of new vehicles to be zero emission by 2032.

I personally think those goals will change based on experience and political realities.

If there were no goals, China among others would clean our clocks and we would be way behind the curve on the most efficient technology.

As far as “not taking about million other issues that would need to be addressed,” this makes no sense. We can address a gazillion issues involving and in addition to clean energy. There are currently 10s if not 100s of thousands of engineers and planners working on upgrading infrastructure to accommodate energy needs. That will be true, regardless of whether we drive EVs or ICE vehicles.

With over half a trillion $$ of subsidies to the oil and gas industry over the last 100 years, it seems unfair to say “no support for EVs, let them succeed in the marketplace.” Which they will, with or without government money.

 

It was a different time when we needed subsidies for oil and gas. No need to sponsor any company now to make them successful. If the product is good it will sell.

how you gone say no one is forcing you to buy EV when states and countries already have a mandate no emissions in a certain date like you states yourself in the first paragraph. And they all worry only about the private market, personal car transportation, they should focus on the biggest manufacturers of green gases and pollution, and not on one of the smallest.

also to late to worry about China they already own you and your kids. You should have thought about that when for the last 60 years you exported all you work there, continue to buy their products just because it was cheaper by a 2% margin with 50% quality

but I’m sure regardless what I say it doesn’t matter because you just don’t care because you have your blinders on.

 

It was a different time when we needed subsidies for oil and gas. No need to sponsor any company now to make them successful. If the product is good it will sell.

You mean, back when the gas industry was in its early days, like BEV is now?

“The United States provides a number of tax subsidies to the fossil fuel industry as a means of encouraging domestic energy production. These include both direct subsidies to corporations, as well as other tax benefits to the fossil fuel industry. Conservative estimates put U.S. direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry at roughly $20 billion per year; with 20 percent currently allocated to coal and 80 percent to natural gas and crude oil. European Union subsidies are estimated to total 55 billion euros annually. Historically, subsidies granted to the fossil fuel industry were designed to lower the cost of fossil fuel production and incentivize new domestic energy sources. Today, U.S. taxpayer dollars continue to fund many fossil fuel subsidies that are outdated, but remain embedded within the tax code.”

Fact Sheet | Fossil Fuel Subsidies: A Closer Look at Tax Breaks and Societal Costs (2019) | White Papers | EESI

www.eesi.org

how you gone say no one is forcing you to buy EV when states and countries already have a mandate no emissions in a certain date like you states yourself in the first paragraph. And they all worry only about the private market, personal car transportation, they should focus on the biggest manufacturers of green gases and pollution, and not on one of the smallest.

I can’t speak for every country, but in the US the only state with a firm mandate so far is California.

So if you’re still driving in 2035 and don’t live in CA you should be ok. You can still buy a used ICE car in CA after 2035. Just as you can buy a horse and buggy now.

also to late to worry about China they already own you and your kids. You should have thought about that when for the last 60 years you exported all you work there, continue to buy their products just because it was cheaper by a 2% margin with 50% quality

I don’t think I exported any of my work to China. Most patients still expect a doc to listen to their chest during a patient exam.

But wait…Don’t you drive a Chinese car??

 

You mean, back when the gas industry was in its early days, like BEV is now?

“The United States provides a number of tax subsidies to the fossil fuel industry as a means of encouraging domestic energy production. These include both direct subsidies to corporations, as well as other tax benefits to the fossil fuel industry. Conservative estimates put U.S. direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry at roughly $20 billion per year; with 20 percent currently allocated to coal and 80 percent to natural gas and crude oil. European Union subsidies are estimated to total 55 billion euros annually. Historically, subsidies granted to the fossil fuel industry were designed to lower the cost of fossil fuel production and incentivize new domestic energy sources. Today, U.S. taxpayer dollars continue to fund many fossil fuel subsidies that are outdated, but remain embedded within the tax code.”

Fact Sheet | Fossil Fuel Subsidies: A Closer Look at Tax Breaks and Societal Costs (2019) | White Papers | EESI

www.eesi.org

I can’t speak for every country, but in the US the only state with a firm mandate so far is California.

So if you’re still driving in 2035 and don’t live in CA you should be ok. You can still buy a used ICE car in CA after 2035. Just as you can buy a horse and buggy now.



I don’t think I exported any of my work to China. Most patients still expect a doc to listen to their chest during a patient exam.

But wait…Don’t you drive a Chinese car??

I’m gone respectfully move on to keep this on thread on track.

 

Guys this thread can easily get nasty. I ask that sarcasm or other negative posts be minimized and kept informative and friendly. Thank you.

 

Why are my posts being deleted?

 

PM sent

 

The PO's post has been thoroughly discussed at this point. Closing