Where do you live? Obviously inclimate weather is where AWD proves the most valuable. However, cars of highpower (T6 for example) tend to struggle putting all the power down through just the front wheels, that's why Volvo makes T6 AWD.

I tend to recommend AWD just for resale and flexibility. There's no real maintenance on the AWD/Haldex system, and while you may lose 1mpg, having the extra traction and performance is worthwhile. If you live anywhere that snows, it's an absolute no brainer, even without snow, it provides extra stability while accelerating in rain as well.

 

There's no real maintenance on the AWD/Haldex system,

I find this troubling. The Haldex website has very specific (@36,000 miles as I recall) maintenance protocols. This system also operates differently from "full time" 4WD systems such as the Audi Quattro which are rear biased in normal application whereas the typical Haldex system is front biased (or front only) until slippage is detected at which point an electric pump is energized tp partially or fully engage a multiple plate hydraulic clutch to apply power to the rear wheels.

 

Looking at S60 2019 and newer. I know what AWD is but I never drove a car with AWD before. Can someone help me understand some of the benefits and detriments of AWD vs FWD in these cars?
I know there is probably a small gas mileage difference, and the AWD car will be slightly heavier and slightly more expensive. What other sorts of differences in driving and maintenance are you seeing between the 2? Do you think the AWD is worth the price/gas increase?

Unless you are in the Southern United States, and even then, I'd go with AWD if you can afford the difference. I regret going FWD. I've had a few AWD loaners and I've noticed several key differences:

1. A vehicle with FWD is less balanced whereas the AWD has a better and equal weight dispersion.

2. AWD vehicle felt better planted to the road

3. Volvo uses Haldex meaning the car drives in FWD unless it senses the need for AWD.

Either way, on a FWD or AWD, I recommend snow tires. I throw Nokians on my FWD T5 S60 in winter.

 

My last car was a 2017 VW Alltrack with what I believe was a Haldex rear differential. At 2,500 miles it failed and it too nearly three weeks for them to locate another one. By 6,000 miles the new one was experiencing the same issues, vibration, leading to bearing failure. i traded the VW in on a 2020 V60 T5 and could lot be happier. That said, if I lived in the snow belt I would have an AWD, like I did when I lived in NE PA. Living in Florida, I’ll keep the complexity down.

 

Previous quatro was torsen based and 4wd mechanicaly. Most of current are similar to haldex that swithch to 4wd electronically.
Any 200+hp on fwd is waste of power.. Either rwd or awd

 

Hmmmmmmm…..not so sure

 

Leaning from this also


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Cars just feel better with AWD esp when they make decent power. AWD makes the car feel solid. Accelerating over bumpy roads feels better, leaving driveways and merging into traffic is easier, etc.

 

Prior to having the Volvos, I’ve logged more than 300k+ miles across five Subarus, four of which were AWD. AWD helps to reduce wheel slip and hydroplaning in the rain. AWD also reduces wheel slip on local roads that have been coated with tar and gravel when you are making a left or right turn from a stop sign. FWD will spin wheels if you are sitting on any gravel. With AWD, this is greatly reduced. AWD will also reduce torque steer.

 

If you do not mind please explain how AWD helps hydroplaning.

Krzyś

 

My frst AWD experiece was at the hands of the Spouses 2006 Ford Freestyle.. Which was totally the same running gear as the Volvo Haldex system of the time (back when Ford and Volvo were in a much mroe Symbiotic spot). That porky pig of a boring family mobile was slighlty underpowered with a 3.0L NA V6 making like 210 HP or something and to make it perform it used a CVT transmission which made it totally tolerable for most things as long as you didn't need to tow.

BUT In the rain with even All season tires the thing was just sure footed, point the wheel and roll on the throttle and it just tracks along. Also in the snow just no drama as long as you werent being ridiculous.

My current car is a Twin Turbo AWD Fusion (330 HP on the dyno), also a Haldex based system, I have summer wheels and snow tires living in Ohio. Could totally get along with all season rubber but I venture into Canada and up into the Mountains of West Virginai in the winter for skiing and with snows and AWD it tracks right where I point the wheel better than 90% of the vehciles out on the roads with me. Jeeps with All Terrain or All season tires dont understand it, as long as there is pavement somehwere underneath it has it It wouldnt routing "off-road" with a Haldex system but if your on pavement 99% of the time it will do just fine.

If you can afford the fuel economy hit and some additional maintenance costs you won't regret it. Ever wonder if you have the traction to get across that intersection in time - I haven't wondered about that ever in a AWD vehicle. Hop in my Sons FWD Mazda 6, and I have to recalibrate even in the dry....

 

What is the weight difference between AWD and FWD on a newer S60?

 

If you trust cars.com comparison data, 2020 T5 FWD R-Design vs 2020 T6 AWD R-design shows ~250 Pounds. That difference rings pretty true on other cars with similar Haldex type systems though. Rear suspension has to be more complex as well as the extra running bits (PTU, RDU, rear axles etc).

 

Personally, I went with FWD because it was cheaper, gets slightly better gas mileage, and I figured it's one less (expensive) thing that can break. I live in VA, so on the rare day that AWD would be useful I'll just stay home. The higher resale on AWD is a good point that I hadn't considered when I bought my car.

 

Definitely true about resale. Look up fwd vs awd cars on carmax / carvana and the same used cars with similar specs are commanding sizeable differences on fwd vs awd.

 

If you live in a mild weather state, it's often worth trying to sell your AWD car in a place that gets heavy salt usage. People will pay a premium for rust free AWD cars. It can be a hassle though depending on where you live.

 

"Perhaps I've used the wrong terminology, but AWD definitely improves traction and reduces tire slip on the highway while it's raining. "

I think you are still using wrong terminology again.
AWD does not improve traction, it just uses more available one to propel the vehicle. That often causes too high speed for conditions because operator is fooled by better (than FWD or RWD) acceleration.

Your example of switching from FWD to 4WD indicates that available torque overwhelmed front tires and distributing it between axles reduced the slippage. But you still had the same traction available for breaking or turning, you just accelerated faster.

To OP.
AWD is better than FWD when you have powerful engine or you are traction limited (because of available power or lack of traction).
Some people think it increases traction but it is not true. It just uses more of available traction to propel the vehicle.

It is very useful starting from stop on the incline in rain, snow or ice (or just accelerating) but it is not replacement of proper tires for the conditions.

Krzyś

 

Can someone help me understand some of the benefits and detriments of AWD vs FWD in these cars?

My personal experience/opinion after 20 years in Central TX (i.e. very low chance of snow, little rain) and about 10 different cars (all in the 200+ HP range), is that I will not own a car with FWD or RWD again if I can help it. I specifically looked for an AWD wagon (Audi, MB, Volvo, etc.) when I got my 2019 V60 and my T6 was the only one available in a 200 mile radius at the time. I had several Audi quattro's over the years, followed by a few FWD or RWD vehicles and I disliked driving them enough to where I went back to AWD.

To me, the added traction, stability and safety of the AWD system outweighs any downsides (weight and fuel economy penalty). AWD delivers traction everywhere, not just in snow/rain/wet conditions. I have to accelerate onto a 60 mph heavy traffic access road from a standstill (STOP sign), then accelerate up a pretty steep hill. My previous vehicle (3.8L V6 RWD > 300 HP) would always cut the power to near zero when the car lost traction on the rear wheels, in any weather conditions. If it wasn't wet there would be dust, gravel or dirt that would affect traction. Having no power or fishtailing when accelerating into traffic is scary to say the least.

From my experience, most vehicles with 150+ HP (I drive in Europe a lot when over there on business) will have traction issues when you try to put down power, especially in rain or when accelerating into a turn from a standstill. Being able to pull into busy roads and knowing that the car will accelerate (not cut power due to traction control kicking in) is a huge safety bonus.

I just got my girlfriend a new Hyundai Palisade (family reasons require 3 rows, and she hates minivans) and made sure it had AWD - she never had an AWD vehicle before, and loves the added traction it provides, even with a heavy, non-turbo vehicle.

A FWD S60 T5 with 250 hp and 258 lb-ft is going to have traction issues when you try to put the power down - an AWD version will not. If you are considering an S60, the extra expense for the slightly lower gas-mileage should not really factor into your purchasing decision (at least in my opinion).

 

We still don’t know where OP lives, do we?

That said, I grew up in the Philly suburbs, went to school in central PA, lived in central Connecticut for 3+ years, and have now been in Minnesota (Twin Cities area) for ~3 years and have always only driven FWD with high end all season tires and I’ve been fine.

Yes, maybe I delay driving for a few hours or a day until the streets have been plowed, and yes maybe I need to drive a bit slower and more carefully, but it’s been no big deal. Never felt terribly limited in being able to drive.

 

Looking at S60 2019 and newer. I know what AWD is but I never drove a car with AWD before. Can someone help me understand some of the benefits and detriments of AWD vs FWD in these cars?
I know there is probably a small gas mileage difference, and the AWD car will be slightly heavier and slightly more expensive. What other sorts of differences in driving and maintenance are you seeing between the 2? Do you think the AWD is worth the price/gas increase?

When I was shopping for my first new Volvo 20 years ago, AWD felt like a potential failure point. Also a drag on performance. Nowadays the technology is advanced enough that there are not many downsides. I have only needed it a few times- but I was glad it was there. Economy is still very good for a large, heavy car.

Now when my 04 V40 was getting on in miles and needed too many things, I opted to get another one (this time an 03 model). FWD on a good used Volvo is fine with me!

 

I bought my 2007 XC70 eight years ago. Not because it had AWD, just because I liked the looks and features of the car.
Sometime between then and two years ago the AWD became non-functional. During this period I had numerous telltale signs, but didn't interpret them well. Some:
1. Near my home there is an intersection with a steep uphill STOP sign. When it was raining, I'd get wheelspin when taking off from a standstill.
2. Just puling out of my driveway on a snowy or icy day, I'd get wheelspin when taking off.
3. On a long highway uphill in some snowy-icy conditions, the rear end would fishtail even going straight.
4. Taking off in various muddy or gravelly conditions, also wheelspin.
5. Sometimes even on a dry steep uphill the fronts would spin when hitting the gas from a stop.

Not having AWD experience I didn't realize what I should've been expecting.

After my mechanic pointed out the non-functioning AWD two years ago I had it repaired (replacing a non-functioning pump on the rear differential), though the mechanic said I could save my money if I was happy with just FWD. I thought," why not have the car operating as it should."
I have been amazed at the difference since the repair. No more front wheelspin in any slippery conditions. There is only a tiny fraction of a second before the rear drive kicks in and the car takes right off. Snow, ice, steep uphills from a standstill, nothing. All this on ordinary Goodyear all-season tires (which I've run for years). Haven't needed snow tires.

You can't appreciate the benefit of AWD as well as by comparing the same car with and without it. I wouldn't buy a car without it now.

 

This is an important point that I’ve seen all too often on the highway. AWD helps you go. It does NOT help you stop, or make turns that you are traveling too quickly to negotiate safely. I’ve seen lots of big trucks zip past me on a snowy/wet highway, only to see them upside down in the median around the next bend…

 

THIS! AWD adds some safety to your drive, but only if you don't eat up the margin by driving faster/less responsible!

 

Wow thanks for all the responses. Very helpful.
To answer the question, I live in Indianapolis where we do get somewhat rough winters and also some rain, and if I were to be doing alot of driving I probably would not be asking this question and would already know to go for AWD. However I am working from home for the forseeable future and I dont need to do all that much driving when the road conditions are bad. It sounds like I would likely go with AWD regardless, especially since a lot of the used S60 around here seem to be of this variant anyway.

 

FWIW, I have both a quick FWD and a slow AWD Volvo. There is a seriously significant difference on wet roads. When it's raining, my C30 has a tough time accelerating through a turn, and tends to understeer anyway. That's when it's time to put the old XC70 into action. There's no stopping it whether it's raining cats and dogs or its a full on blizzard. You can floor it and it maintains great traction. On sunny days, of course I waaaay prefer the fun C30, but in inclement weather there's no comparison. AWD wins every time. Plus, on snow packed roads, it's REALLY fun to drive by throttle, kicking out the tail on hairpin turns. It's magical how the thing just straightens itself out and just goes where you point the wheel. I still have no idea how it does that so well, but it's downright telepathic.

That all said, even in dry weather, IME FWD Volvos tend to understeer on turns during "spirited" driving, and the AWD variants seem to be more balanced in that regard. Perhaps it's not just how it puts the power down, but maybe it has better balanced weight distribution front to back AND lower CG due to the additional driveline components?

 

For the majority of people that aren't in an area that has a reasonable degree of snow or muddy roads, FWD makes the most sense - it's lighter, more fuel efficient and is fewer parts to break.
In a track setting (or in very spirited driving, which you probably shouldn't be doing on public roads) where you're trying to squeeze every last tiny fraction of grip from a road tire, AWD works better (though RWD is technically best), when you consider the "traction circle" of the front wheels - namely, when hard cornering and preparing to maximize exit velocity, the front tires of an AWD car have more grip to supply to cornering forces, since the rear tires are picking up some of the accelerative duties of the vehicle. But that is in very hard driving, while minimizing track times, maximizing hard-cornering efficiency for the purposes of improving lap times, and is generally not what you should be doing on any public road anyway.
AWD is also better to accelerate in adverse conditions (especially snow and ice), but does nothing for you for braking. In fact it's worse for braking, as there's a small amount of extra weight that you also have to stop. It does a small amount in cornering while in adverse conditions, but really you wouldn't be in that situation unless you were racing in adverse conditions, in which case see the above paragraph.
It also tends to provide better resale value at the far end when you sell the car. However, if you tend to keep cars until they fall apart, resale value doesn't really play any significant part in the calculation.
Unless you plan on racing or tracking the car, or if you drive extensively in adverse weather conditions (Snow mostly - AWD doesn't help you that much in the rain), FWD makes the most sense for most drivers.

 

The above is true except rain part.
AWD impact on rain driving depends on road conditions and terrain.
Some surfaces are more slippery than others and AWD helps in the "more slippery" ones.

Krzyś

 

Yep, like around here driving in the rain means, well, it is wet.
Where my dad lives in Las Vegas, driving in the rain is TOTALLY different. When it hasn't really rained in say 4-5 months, the roads are covered with films of oil/dust/dirt. ANd when rain hits, that nice smooth pavement they have there, gets VERY slippery. But hey, only like 4-5 days a year.

 

The more I think about it, though, the more I realize that AWD helps you mostly only while accelerating. It doesn't help you while cornering, unless you're also accelerating while cornering (in which case, it's again helping while accelerating). If you're coasting, and you turn, and start to slide, AWD isn't going to help you at all in that scenario. If you're braking, also not going to help you.

That said, if you have training, there are some advanced techniques you can use to take advantage of AWD while cornering to improve exit speeds while driving, and is the main reason why AWD Rally cars tend to have the fastest leg times over RWD rally cars. But unless you're planning on driving like Petter Solberg in day to day driving, it's not really going to help. Even then, the AWD system on Volvo's isn't set up to take advantage of that.

Generally, AWD only helps you while accelerating, though, so I'll stand by my post. In the case of uneven traction (one wheel is hovering in a puddle of water), AWD can also help with unbalanced accelerating forces (left to right) leading to torque causing your car to start to rotate around its center. AWD helps in that situation because it reduces the impact of that force imbalance, since you have 2 other wheels also contributing to acceleration forces (net force imbalance is reduced, but not eliminated). Though much of that can also be corrected for by the fancier new (within the last 10+ years) anti-yaw controls that reduce engine power to the wheel that's not spinning, too. So it's kind of a bit of a wash.

Yes, it'll help you to not get stuck in Snow (within reason), as my old Subaru's with decent All Season tires were pretty good at. Though so would a FWD car with dedicated Snow tires, if you drove in an area that could reliably get snow over winter.

 

The more I think about it, though, the more I realize that AWD helps you mostly only while accelerating. It doesn't help you while cornering, unless you're also accelerating while cornering (in which case, it's again helping while accelerating). If you're coasting, and you turn, and start to slide, AWD isn't going to help you at all in that scenario. If you're braking, also not going to help you...

^^Well thought out post, and I appreciate your distinction that it's truly most helpful for ACCELERATING. However, I'd argue where it most often comes in handy for driving on the highway is when you're hydroplaning or hit slick icy patches during a state of maintained speed with an active throttle. Whereas in my AWD cars, I can drive in torrential downpours at highway speeds and even if the car's hydroplaning on one side, it automatically pulls power from those wheels, applies it to the other ones, and I can't barely tell anything even happened. It's SO seamless for the most part. This was most pronounced in my A4 Quattro, but my XC is also excellent. Even in rain, the Audi handled like it was on rails. In my FWD C30, when I encounter the same scenario, the steering wheel wants to move, you lose all forward power for a second, and you gotta be on your toes more. Don't get me wrong, no matter WHAT you're driving, you should always be on your A game when driving in inclement weather, and so even in a FWD car, it's not too hard to avoid a crash if you halfway paid attention in driver's ed, but I've really come to appreciate how in my AWD vehicles, it can take what would be an "Oh $#lT!" moment in a FWD car and smoothes the whole experience out that it is downgraded to a mild "Huh. Well that was interesting" moment.

That all said, between having good tires and AWD, much like my motorcycle riding days, I learned that one of the biggest things you still have to watch out for is OTHER drivers/cars that may not have the same capability as you or your vehicle do. When I rocked snow tires, I could stop on a dime, corner, avoid a moose, whatever. Unfortunately the people behind me or around me did not. It was THEM I had to watch out for as I'd see them careening toward my bumper or doing a ballet to the side of me. Haha. Many a close call on I-90/94.

 

I am not sure about your vehicles but when my cars slide (be it AWD, RWD or FWD) all four tires are struggling to regain traction.
Do you mean spin?
If only 2 tires lost traction it depends if they are on the same axle or not how the car behaves but it means that the other two have not lost traction.

Traction control reduces the tire slippage to the point of killing all the power.

"correcting hydroplaning" - shallower water or slow down. None of which is controlled by which wheels are being driven.

I agree with earlier poster: AWD helps accelerating or keeping the speed - when traction is limiting factor.

Krzyś