Well doing a little maintenance on the V70 R, 2004 6spd, 170k. Replaced one of the coils that went bad 2 weeks ago and put in a new plug. Didn't have the time to replace the others at the time so I was going to do it this afternoon. 3 of the 4 plugs came out with too much trouble. I don't recall it I put anti-seize on them when I last changed them but I recall them being a bear to get out. The plug next to the upper engine mount is so hard to turn, not sure if this is #1 or #5. I usually use my "T" handle to remove spark plugs but had to switch to my 8" ratchet to barely move it. I would loose a little and then tighten like you would tap a hole. I worked on it for about an hour slowly backing it our but threw in the towel it just kept getting harder and harder. Put everything back together and I'm off for some 4th july events. Any suggestions how to help it come out?
bmwtinut
First off, working it back and forth as it got harder to turn wasn't good, its likely that you have a cross threaded plug in there and working it is just going to generate debris as you gall the metal from working it back and forth.
Best thing you can do is put some penetrating oil in the hole to lube the threads and just torque it out of there assuming too much damage hasn't been done already. If you used anti-seize on the threads it should have just come in without a problem. Did you have any issues putting that plug in there?
Best thing you can do is put some penetrating oil in the hole to lube the threads and just torque it out of there assuming too much damage hasn't been done already. If you used anti-seize on the threads it should have just come in without a problem. Did you have any issues putting that plug in there?
I would get a Time Sert kit and a bigger ratchet. I normally use a 12in Snap On 3/8" to remove the spark plugs. If needed you can Time Sert the bad threads. If not, you can return the unused kit.
I don't know how hard it was to install last time as that was 70k ago. Quite a few years. Don't see how the plug could be cross threaded on just removing it but anything is possible. I do remember when the original plugs were removed that these were the hardest plugs that I have ever removed from a car. Just super tight the whole way removing them all. I might of done this plug 1st when I first changed them and never put antiseize on this one. I timeserted my bmw 65k ago due to a bad plug thread. I'll have to check and see if it my kit has the correct size if needed.
Most likely your plug has welded itself to threads because of Dissimilar metal.
Do not listen to Stealthy, your only hope is to move the thread back and forth and work it all the way out over a period of time. Going full commando will only break the plug or completely strip the threads.
You need to work it back and forth but do so in a designed manor.
Loosen till you can't loosen any more and feel like your at the max reasonable TQ before something bad happens. Then loosen the bolt 1 turn, back to max reasonable pressure, loosen 1 turn, repeat untill the plug is free.
What you will find when you remove the plug is stripped threads normally just 2-3 near the tip but remember those had to come out and generally it just breaks of the tip of the thread. So Re-Thread the plug with a thread cleaner (not a tap) tool 14x1.5 (most likely) but it could be 14x1.25 with lots of grease to hold the shavings that will be removed. After you run the tool a few times install a new plug with anti-seize and take it to TQ spec of like 22 ft/lbs. If the plug holds the TQ then you have a shot and I would drive the car around any most likely you will never have a problem.
If it doesn't hold the TQ then your going to need to use a sparkplug repair tool and fix the problem going that route.
-Your Pal
Fishey
Do not listen to Stealthy, your only hope is to move the thread back and forth and work it all the way out over a period of time. Going full commando will only break the plug or completely strip the threads.
You need to work it back and forth but do so in a designed manor.
Loosen till you can't loosen any more and feel like your at the max reasonable TQ before something bad happens. Then loosen the bolt 1 turn, back to max reasonable pressure, loosen 1 turn, repeat untill the plug is free.
What you will find when you remove the plug is stripped threads normally just 2-3 near the tip but remember those had to come out and generally it just breaks of the tip of the thread. So Re-Thread the plug with a thread cleaner (not a tap) tool 14x1.5 (most likely) but it could be 14x1.25 with lots of grease to hold the shavings that will be removed. After you run the tool a few times install a new plug with anti-seize and take it to TQ spec of like 22 ft/lbs. If the plug holds the TQ then you have a shot and I would drive the car around any most likely you will never have a problem.
If it doesn't hold the TQ then your going to need to use a sparkplug repair tool and fix the problem going that route.
-Your Pal
Fishey
The self-welding is called galling. Dissimilar metals don't cause galling, similar metals do. In a car what usually causes spark plug galling is carbon buildup on the tip of the plug that is sticking out into the cylinder. It starts tearing up the threads and the aluminum shavings gall on the rest of the aluminum.
Either way, it'll eventually come out and be fine, or it'll come out and you'll need a timesert. My guess is if it's jammed that hard, the threads are destroyed already.
Either way, it'll eventually come out and be fine, or it'll come out and you'll need a timesert. My guess is if it's jammed that hard, the threads are destroyed already.
To help keep carbon build up from happening I have used fuel injection/combustion chamber cleaner at 10k mile intervals. It really does a great job and may help keep spark plugs from getting carbon stuck. I can't remember ever having an issue removing plugs when I have done this on my vehicles. Glück.
Using a T-handle is a great plan, keeps the torque even and avoids angular binding effects. The fact that it moves a half turn or more is a very good sign, I'd shoot a teaspoon of penetrating oil down there when it was loose, and let it sit for an hour. Any lubrication from the top side will help it turn. Easy does it.
If it still puts up resistance, then seat the plug back down and run the car for a bit. A warm engine will help. Again, easy does it.
I always use a small dab of aluminum antiseize on the plug threads in these engines.
If it still puts up resistance, then seat the plug back down and run the car for a bit. A warm engine will help. Again, easy does it.
I always use a small dab of aluminum antiseize on the plug threads in these engines.
The best advise is to NEVER and I mean NEVER use any anti seize on modern day engines and spark plugs. No matter what you think it might be helping, it is wrong. Spark plugs come with trivalent plating which not only acts as a anti corrosive material it also acts as a release agent when the plugs are removed. Also the use of anti seize agent can greatly increased the actual torque value of the plug and possible strip out the head even when you torque to spec. If the manufacture says to use anti seize or oil, then by all means use it but I know for a fact no manufacture call for anti seize. Its a very bad practice that a lot of old timers swear by but we aren't using iron heads with uncoated spark plugs anymore. Just don't want to make this guys problem any worse than it already is.
Get it out and anti seize, when Ic changed my plugs for the first time after I bought my car all of its maintenence was done by a volvo dealer from PO. I'll tell you know at least 3 of tbe plugs felt like they were going to break off. Could of been over torqued no they were also OEM plugs I pulled out. Ive done it on all my volvos and every other car without issue new and old. To this day Ive never had to fight a plug that ive reintsalled.
Judge for yourself http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1988
http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=2023
I've been a Master Tech since 1993, Volvo, BMW, Instructor at Nascar Technical Institute. I've had Factory Mercedes and Mini Training as well. Never once in any of those Factory Classes or in any other venue expect online forums has anyone EVER suggested putting anti seize on spark plugs. Those are just the facts from my perspective as an Automotive Professional who specializes in European cars and have for 25 years. So I would suggest against putting anti seize on plugs as its just not needed and can actually cause ignition issues. If you like to do that on your car and you've never had an issue, that's wonderful. I'm not trying to be combative, I was only trying to help the OP within the realm of my experience. Your mileage may very.
http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=2023
I've been a Master Tech since 1993, Volvo, BMW, Instructor at Nascar Technical Institute. I've had Factory Mercedes and Mini Training as well. Never once in any of those Factory Classes or in any other venue expect online forums has anyone EVER suggested putting anti seize on spark plugs. Those are just the facts from my perspective as an Automotive Professional who specializes in European cars and have for 25 years. So I would suggest against putting anti seize on plugs as its just not needed and can actually cause ignition issues. If you like to do that on your car and you've never had an issue, that's wonderful. I'm not trying to be combative, I was only trying to help the OP within the realm of my experience. Your mileage may very.
It's a sound recommendation to avoid putting anything on the threads, and I won't argue it. But it's my opinion that the extra-long threaded reach of the R and B5254T3 (my car's) plugs are prone to being impossible to remove. I got in the habit with my Honda, where it helped immensely, and I do it in my white-block Volvos (not my red-block).
Be *sure* to go light on the torque when doing this.
Be *sure* to go light on the torque when doing this.
Volvo says not to use anti-sieze, but I always do and have never had a problem. I believe they say this because they are afraid of someone getting it on the tip and causing problems, whatever that might be after the first start up...
Torque according to the blue book is 18 ft. lbs and not 22, go half the torque value and your plugs will come out on their own guaranteed.
Fishey is right on how to get them out, use lubricant like PB Blaster when going back and forth.
Torque according to the blue book is 18 ft. lbs and not 22, go half the torque value and your plugs will come out on their own guaranteed.
Fishey is right on how to get them out, use lubricant like PB Blaster when going back and forth.
Service Manual Cars TP 2102201
Torque settings page 12
Nm/degrees (ft.lb)
Sparkplugs (do not grease) ................................................................20Nm/(18)
Torque settings page 12
Nm/degrees (ft.lb)
Sparkplugs (do not grease) ................................................................20Nm/(18)
I've been using anti seize on plugs in Volvo aluminum heads for 25 years and probably half a million miles, never had a single problem, never had to helicoil a spark plug hole.
:thumbup: Thanks 300+_T5R_855.
I think all of this differing information goes to show it's not just some old guys or forum contributors who have created confusion. It's something that permeates the industry from the car manufacturers down to the spark plug manufacturers. Even Denso disagrees with itself. I suspect, as tmtalpey made reference to, it's more of a case by case basis than just saying all spark plugs should or should not have anti-seize applied.
I think all of this differing information goes to show it's not just some old guys or forum contributors who have created confusion. It's something that permeates the industry from the car manufacturers down to the spark plug manufacturers. Even Denso disagrees with itself. I suspect, as tmtalpey made reference to, it's more of a case by case basis than just saying all spark plugs should or should not have anti-seize applied.
for plug that does not want to come out like you describe ...since you were able to go back and forth with it , i would stray WD-40 down there and let it soak up for while and then remove it...also, i've been using anti seize on "spark plug threads" for about 25 years....always.
Anti-seize on plug threads is always a recommended option for reasons like the one that started this thread. I can't believe that anyone wants to advise against such things, especially without having any kind of good reason to back up not using it to prevent your plug threads from getting mangled.
Back in the day when I worked as an automotive machinist I had to remove more screwed up plugs and fasteners than I can count. Some people may wish to think that working screwed up threads back and forth are somehow going to make the threads better, but in reality the galled metal this action creates in their place only makes the situation worse. Once you get to that point lube and torque are your only friends. In some cases you can use heat to open up the hole a little, but when trying to remove a plug deep in the head that's not an option with the engine together.
If you are trying to remove a cross threaded or galled up plug with a T handle you are using the wrong tool. What you need is a big torque wrench that will turn it out of there assuming too much of a mess hasn't been created to where you will need to pull the head and drill it out. A ****ed up plug could easily require over a hundred lbs of torque to get out of there after all and you are not going to pull that off with a small ratchet or t-handle.
Then again what do I know, I'm just an engineer who spent a lot of time as an automotive machinist. Lots of people have opinions about what needs to be done here, doesn't mean they are all right though.
Back in the day when I worked as an automotive machinist I had to remove more screwed up plugs and fasteners than I can count. Some people may wish to think that working screwed up threads back and forth are somehow going to make the threads better, but in reality the galled metal this action creates in their place only makes the situation worse. Once you get to that point lube and torque are your only friends. In some cases you can use heat to open up the hole a little, but when trying to remove a plug deep in the head that's not an option with the engine together.
If you are trying to remove a cross threaded or galled up plug with a T handle you are using the wrong tool. What you need is a big torque wrench that will turn it out of there assuming too much of a mess hasn't been created to where you will need to pull the head and drill it out. A ****ed up plug could easily require over a hundred lbs of torque to get out of there after all and you are not going to pull that off with a small ratchet or t-handle.
Then again what do I know, I'm just an engineer who spent a lot of time as an automotive machinist. Lots of people have opinions about what needs to be done here, doesn't mean they are all right though.
I never use antisieze on plugs. NGK plugs are plated with everything you ever need. It says on their website. I would seriously doubt any other reputable spark plug manufacturer would not do the same. I have never had a seized spark plug that I installed dry. This ranges from air cooled motorcycles, 35 year old tractors to turbo charged passenger cars. But, cars with antisieze on them are always tougher to remove. That's my experience. I do use antisieze on oxygen sensors if its supplied. I also agree with penetrating oil and going slowly. Also, show us what it looks like when it's extracted.
Sent from my rotor-dial phone with the help of Cortana.
Sent from my rotor-dial phone with the help of Cortana.
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