[Pretorien]

In reviewing this thread, I ask myself "Who's at fault for the level of poor performing and complex software and computer systems in our cars?" Is it the governments throughout the world that require emission and other improvements? Is it the customers who want more-and-more "infotainment" and other comfort or convenience features? Is it the OEMs who want to employ technology as a marketing tool to differentiate their brand and reduce their costs? Or something else?

Regardless. The reality is that our cars are evolving into incredibly complex machines that, due to all of the interdependent systems, are getting to the point of being (if not already there) very difficult to build and maintain. This is the problem, IMO. Can a size 12 foot be stuffed in a size 10 shoe? Probably, but at great discomfort. The same may be true for our most modern cars. Yes, a continual and accelerating stream of ever more complex technology is being stuffed into our cars. It should be as no surprise then that problems will ensue. What ever happened to K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid)?

This begs the question ... Would a large majority of car buyers be willing to forgo some or most of the new technology, with improved reliability as the exchange? My guess is no ... We'd want our cake and eat it, too. If that's the case, why bother complaining? Just saying ... In my case, my 2020 V90 Inscription has had some tech "glitches", although its been sound, mechanically. Initially, I have to admit that it pissed me off. However, I've grown to accept it as the "new normal", and a price to pay for a comfortable and safe car.

I would agree with you adding that I place most of the responsibility on governments reacting to noisy fanatics and manufacturers disguising cost cutting measures as "features" (and giving their dealers the opportunity to harvest additional revenues by incorporating things like a $2 light bulb into non-repairable modules that cost $500 + labor to replace.)

Case in point: One of the 4 LEDs that mark the window controls on my 15.5 V60 went out. Dealer service response: "Sorry, bulbs are not covered" Contacted Volvo Customer Service - making the argument that, since the LED could not be replaced, it was an electronic assembly, not a "bulb." - same answer - wrote letter to President, Volvo NA - sent via courier (no one ignores a Fedex Overnight) - replaced as a "courtesy" Happy to have it fixed but angry that the initial responses were to deny responsibility.

 

[Ultrarunner511]

Back in December, I sent my feedback on my '22 XC60 to a few people at Volve (including a couple of their customer care execs):

View attachment 145330


I then received a fairly quick response - where I was offered a whopping 30% off an accessory (up to $200)! ;-)

View attachment 145331

This week I finally replied back with the following:

View attachment 145332

And then received this response around CarPlay and the lack of apps in the Play Store:

Your 2022 XC60 Play Store is powered by Google. We suggest visiting Google's Help & Support page to provide feedback on the availability of apps in the Play Store. I have provided a link below. CarPlay has not been provided an official release date, however, is still expected this first quarter of 2022. In regard to other anticipated updates the most up to date information is posted on our Help & Support page as it is released for upcoming OTA updates to your vehicle. I have provided a link to our Help & Support page below. I hope that this information is helpful. Please let us know if you have any additional questions.

Find & download apps for your car - Use Google apps and services built into your car

https://volvo.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/10365/year/2022/model/XC60

Med vänliga hälsningar!

Yours Sincerely,

Jennifer
Volvo Customer Care

I'm curious as to what your window sticker says on the options. This is mine from my 2021, and it clearly states Apple Carplay and Android Auto are compatible. If that's the case for yours, Volvo must take the blame as they produced the car with the options, yet somehow still delivered it without them.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[Pretorien]

I wonder if a window sticker can be considered a "representation and warrantee" thus part of a contract? If you look at the whole sticker, is there a disclaimer anywhere?

 

[Ultrarunner511]

I wonder if a window sticker can be considered a "representation and warrantee" thus part of a contract? If you look at the whole sticker, is there a disclaimer anywhere?

It would include, "As is" in big letters. At least IMO [emoji2369]

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[p07r0457]

I wonder if a window sticker can be considered a "representation and warrantee" thus part of a contract? If you look at the whole sticker, is there a disclaimer anywhere?

AFAIK, the Monroney has significant legal weight/importance.

 

[Ultrarunner511]

I wonder if a window sticker can be considered a "representation and warrantee" thus part of a contract? If you look at the whole sticker, is there a disclaimer anywhere?

There is a disclaimer at the bottom that's hard to read on my window sticker picture that says what isn't included like taxes, fees, etc, etc... and the following:

"...The factory reserves the right to modify price, designs, and equipment without previous notice."

I guess software is "easy" equipment to change, delay, omit, or whatever compared to physical equipment. Sure muddies the water without a price adjustment or credit or some incentive to keep the buyer on board.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[31355]

Case in point: One of the 4 LEDs that mark the window controls on my 15.5 V60 went out. Dealer service response: "Sorry, bulbs are not covered"

Sorry, but your dealer is a moron. Yes this is covered. As a service manager at a Volvo store I've replaced many items that have a led backlight burn out. Most dealers would have had this covered on your first visit. That's not really a Volvo issue, that's a dealer issue.

 

[maggs]

There is a disclaimer at the bottom that's hard to read on my window sticker picture that says what isn't included like taxes, fees, etc, etc... and the following:

"...The factory reserves the right to modify price, designs, and equipment without previous notice."

I guess software is "easy" equipment to change, delay, omit, or whatever compared to physical equipment. Sure muddies the water without a price adjustment or credit or some incentive to keep the buyer on board.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

Yes. Due to the chip shortage, I have seen numerous instances where factory ordered cars, from numerous brands, were delivered with "standard" and ordered "optional" equipment not installed. When this has happened, from when I recall, the buyer was offered a credit/reduction from the purchase price. As an example, one buyer received his car without the heated seats he had ordered. Living in the North East, I wouldn't want a car if it didn't have heated seats. In another instance, the BLIS wasn't installed in the car. With all of this going on, it's a wonder to me why anyone would opt to factory order a new car now. There's a good chance that what was anticipated in the car won't be what's delivered. Crazy world we now live in.

 

[Pretorien]

Sorry, but your dealer is a moron. Yes this is covered. As a service manager at a Volvo store I've replaced many items that have a led backlight burn out. Most dealers would have had this covered on your first visit. That's not really a Volvo issue, that's a dealer issue.

Understood but in this case Volvo corporate Customer Service backed up the dealer and it was only by going to the top that the matter was resolved.

 

[Pretorien]

There is a disclaimer at the bottom that's hard to read on my window sticker picture that says what isn't included like taxes, fees, etc, etc... and the following:

"...The factory reserves the right to modify price, designs, and equipment without previous notice."

I guess software is "easy" equipment to change, delay, omit, or whatever compared to physical equipment. Sure muddies the water without a price adjustment or credit or some incentive to keep the buyer on board.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

If this is the case, it seems to me that the dealer or Volvo would have a positive obligation to disclose those modifications including functions enumerated in the description but not present in the product as delivered. I'm not an attorney but as a tech type in M&A, I always had my attorney buddy at my side and I learned from him-e.g a $1MM settlement when the process described for the manufacture of an acquired product did not match the actual process used.

 

[Dstevens10]

I think we can put this sub-conversation to rest as Car Play and Android Auto are not listed on the '22 window sticker. It was a verbal promise from the dealers that it would be released shortly.

 

[Ultrarunner511]

I think we can put this sub-conversation to rest as Car Play and Android Auto are not listed on the '22 window sticker. It was a verbal promise from the dealers that it would be released shortly.

View attachment 146164

Interesting. Thanks for checking on that. I really hope Volvo comes around for you and anyone else experiencing the same frustrations.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[31355]

Understood but in this case Volvo corporate Customer Service backed up the dealer and it was only by going to the top that the matter was resolved.

Well the Volvo customers service rep was an idiot too. Everyone apparently got caught up in the verbiage. An LED is not a bulb. Yes, bulbs are not covered under warranty. If your LED headlight stopped working are they saying that’s not covered either? Of course it is…..

 

[BC1084]

Something to note regarding the Google Play store for the iCup system: when taking delivery at the factory in Sep, the "tech guy" they sent to explain any of the system that the delivery person didn't understand, stated that the Play Store available on the vehicle was tailored by Volvo. They pick and choose which apps are allowed, probably due to any possible malware which could compromise the vehicle (think zero day exploits, etc.) That was make me think that the limited nature of the apps available is not down to Google, but down to Volvo limiting what apps can be downloaded, similar to regional locks on certain apps from the US or Europe.

So when they blame Google, they're full of it.

 

[Walkabout]

That's some sweeping conclusions based on a five minute conversation with a nameless ”tech guy.”

I seriously doubt that volvo is preventing third party apps from getting through to the platform. It's more like that third parties simply don't think that developing apps for a limited application is worth it. AAOS is still a relatively new concept and it's going to take some time for the software world to catch up (if, in fact, software developers ever see the profit motive for developing apps for AAOS - not a given).

I had a Lincoln years ago with aplatform that was open to third parties - few apps came though because writing specialized software is not always profitable.

In the same way, there still aren't apps for my google wear watch and every streaming app is not available on every device.

It's also unlikely that the system is designed in such a way that a infotainment app is going to interfere with other aspects of the car.

AAOS is a new take on an existing platform and early adopters always have to deal with limits in third party support.

You could argue that Volvo and Google should find ways of providing incentive to third party developers but that's a much different issue than what you are suggesting.

 

[BC1084]

That could be the case, but I'm basing my assumption off of a statement from someone at the factory in Sweden, and you're making assumptions off what you think based on past experience. Not saying you're wrong (it could be a combination of both) but why would the agent lie? Not really any incentive to lie, and if he did, you'd think he'd more likely blame developers or Google, versus taking the blame/blaming Volvo for lack of apps.

The context is important too: I was in the car for the first time trying to download additional apps, and obviously not many were showing up. I asked why Waze was not available, and that's when he made the statement about them essentially filtering the store for pre-screened apps. I'm not saying he's right, but there's not much else to explain it besides what he said and what you've suggested.

 

[aptosca]

Related (but possibly behind a paywall): As Automakers Add Technology to Cars, Software Bugs Follow

 

[Walkabout]

That could be the case, but I'm basing my assumption off of a statement from someone at the factory in Sweden, and you're making assumptions off what you think based on past experience. Not saying you're wrong (it could be a combination of both) but why would the agent lie? Not really any incentive to lie, and if he did, you'd think he'd more likely blame developers or Google, versus taking the blame/blaming Volvo for lack of apps.

The context is important too: I was in the car for the first time trying to download additional apps, and obviously not many were showing up. I asked why Waze was not available, and that's when he made the statement about them essentially filtering the store for pre-screened apps. I'm not saying he's right, but there's not much else to explain it besides what he said and what you've suggested.

I don't think the "agent" lied. I think you are overinterpreted or misinterpreting what he told you.

I think he is basically saying that Volvo maintains some QC and won't allow just any app to run on their car infotainment system - that I believe.

That a lot different from arguing that Volvo is the bottleneck or that this is all Volvo's doing.

In some ways, I see this as a moot point. As an owner, I don't give a crap whose fault it is. I just want an end product that is functional. If I pay for an OS with the understanding that I'll be able to choose from all kinds of apps, that's what I expect.