[Aloha142]

Ok fellas sorry for the repetition, but another noob is looking at saving a 142. 71 to be exact. found it in Aptos, CA since there aren't any here. So while my wife and I were on vacation driving up the coast from LA to SF, i was able to waste a day on the purchase and drive to Oakland docks.
Oct. 1st

Rebuilt b18 as the b20 had a hole through the block when the previous owner got it, single weber, m40. Dark green respray is horrible in real life, rust, seats need work, etc, etc. That said this thing is quiet at highway speeds, drives like a dream, brakes are up there with the best I've ever felt, dash and headliner are amazing for a 44 yr old car. every time i drive her its a pleasure and i feel i couldn't have picked a better project.
I had originally planned on a japanese classic but once seeing/learning about the 142, my mind was made up. the goal for this car is first to restore, 98% OEM, then air suspension and wheels.:facepalm:
just a solid driver, wether to the store for beer, or around the island for shrimp and shave ice, which shouldn't be too hard for the 142, at least that was the initial thought.

So first thing first, this damn rust. the seller didn't mention it in the ad, so when i found rust at the rear shock supports, lowballing was a green light, of course i didn't mention I'm a welder/fabricator for a living. door jambs looked great, drip rail over the windows looked great, so i assumed it was just the common upper shock mounts. of course i was wrong.

took delivery on the 2nd of nov. got her to the shop[my job] and found more at the seatbelt supports

btw the shop next door with the toyota out front, he does 4x4 builds but to pay the bills he does insurance repairs, one of the best body guys in the island if not the best under age 35, so tools, and invaluable insight is always right next door.

passenger side seatbelt support

stripping stuff

on the drivers side water was getting in to the upper shock mount since it was rusted through, it would run down the fender well towards the front of the car, collecting on the floor pan.

bought some stuff

found more on the quarters where it seams with the rocker panels[below the rear windows] no pictures but i figured that will have to be phase 2 of the rust repair, tackling the shock mounts, seatbelt supports, and floor pan was more than enough for my first time. So the thanksgiving weekend i was free friday through monday, got everything ready and went to work

started cutting

this is what 3 hours of hammering on a beanbag looks like[first time and the steel thickness is overkill but its free]

and patched up

floorpan patch[needs another for the pinholes in the area, took care of the seam first]

things were working out so i got bold and went ahead and removed the spare tire wells

so everything has been seam sealed inside and out, covered with either por15 or rustoleum paint before undercoating.
put some seam sealer in the remaining pinholes in the floor pan and quarter panels. and took her home to research the next round of rust repair.

to be cont. tomorrow

 

[07V70]

Dam respectable patch/repair work for a first time.. Nice to see another 142 being returned to glory, keep us posted!

 

[rixt]

Indeed, great to see another 142 being saved! I can see you discoverd scandcar already. But I wonder, did they deliver 140 series with carburator in 1971? I thought that only the injection equipped engines were delivered in the States.

Regards,

Mathieu.

 

[142 Guy]

Most excellent! I imagine that driving a 142 in Honolulu is going to grant you a certain amount of exclusivity amongst all those pedestrian BMWs, Audis and Ferraris.

Your rust repair engendered a certain amount of Deja vu. If you haven't done it already, check the front inner fender where it joins the body just behind the hood hinge mounting point and right up front adjacent to the headlights. Good spots for accumulating moisture trapping dirt. Also be sure to check the seam between the inner and outer body panels around the rear wheels. Another common rust area.

 

[Aloha142]

Dam respectable patch/repair work for a first time.. Nice to see another 142 being returned to glory, keep us posted!

Thanks man, I'm loving this forum and all the content. can't wait to share this with everyone here.

Indeed, great to see another 142 being saved! I can see you discoverd scandcar already. But I wonder, did they deliver 140 series with carburator in 1971? I thought that only the injection equipped engines were delivered in the States.
Regards,
Mathieu.

Thanks Mathieu, from what I've gathered i believe 71 was the last year of dual strombergs, but I've only been reading up on volvos for 6 months or so.

Most excellent! I imagine that driving a 142 in Honolulu is going to grant you a certain amount of exclusivity amongst all those pedestrian BMWs, Audis and Ferraris.

Your rust repair engendered a certain amount of Deja vu. If you haven't done it already, check the front inner fender where it joins the body just behind the hood hinge mounting point and right up front adjacent to the headlights. Good spots for accumulating moisture trapping dirt. Also be sure to check the seam between the inner and outer body panels around the rear wheels. Another common rust area.

Neil, i must say that each page of your thread is a green book for someone like myself. Ive come to terms with the the fact that today, if you want a solid 140, theres a 90% chance you have to go through this process. Which i like to think of as a rite of passage
I forgot to mention i have more rust on the seams at the lower rear edge of the fender arches, If you look closely at the upper left corner of my second to last picture above, i had to make a small patch on the inner panel where it rusted through. on the opposite [passenger]side the inner panel was fine but it rusted through the outer panel. i put some seam sealer in that hole for the time being, I'm trying to determine if an aftermarket patch is available but I've been sidetracked.

So more backstory, i live in a small apt bldg in the city, 1 stall in a covered, not secured lot, where you're not allowed to "perform extensive automotive repairs". My job is 12 miles away on the rainy side of the island. we rotate parking between employees weekly so i end up with a stall one week a month. the week after thanksgiving was my parking week so i was able to leave the car from thursday through the following week and weekend. everything is done on the ground, on my back, in the elements... so passing showers turn into lunch breaks/supply runs, and transferring undercoating from the chassis to my face/neck/ears via wire wheel is just another day on the volvo. easily the biggest project I've undertaken between what needs to physically be done, and the logistics of making it happen.
Now after this rust batch was done the plan was to gather what was needed and prepare for this coming week[my parking week], that changed when i took the car home. i left it outside one night in the elements, it stormed overnight and the next morning i discovered what no 142 owner wants to find…..wet jute in the passenger front that and a nice trail from the passenger side trunk hinge down to my new spare tire well delete panel. Really bummed me out since theres no signs/bubbling or anything anywhere around the windshields and this is a logistics nightmare for me since i have no where to store the car, out of the elements, with air/power/220 outlet that i can think of.
"looks" fine

I'm currently looking at renting shop space for a month but space here is at a premium, and the people with space, want a ridiculous amount of money when they find out you don't need their services, just their space. so the search continues.
which leads me to yesterday, some fella in the navy posted up a 1992 240 for free friday night, i was able to get first in line so yesterday i ended up with a perfectly good metal donor. I'm hoping my assumptions are correct that since the windshield is the same, the surrounding metal seams should be similar enough to save me the trouble of fabricating new ones from scratch. i have yet to assess the damage on mine which brings me to my first direct question…windshield removal

I'm reading the service manual but any tips or tricks are always helpful, especially with pieces that aren't easily found/replaceable. any advice on removing the trim without damaging/bending it? I've read that the rubber seals are reusable? I've also read that its hard to not break the glass upon removal, and as silly as it sounds, the volvo logo on the glass is somewhat important to me so i don't mind if it takes time to carefully get through the glue. Even more so is the brightwork so a 90-93 windshield is out of the question.
Tasca is shipping me clips tomorrow but I'm trying to figure out what else is needed for the job. worst case scenario i will pull the glass at my place, assess the damage and buy a car cover, then drive to my work windowless next month when i have my parking week and tackle it. ideally id like the shop space for a month then i could strip and respray the interior and roof/pillars/cowl so the glass won't need to be pulled later.
Ive been lucky to never have dealt with replacing glass on my vehicles in the past, but an acquaintance from high school runs a great independent mobile glass biz here, he's currently in thailand on vacation, i imagine he'll be busy when he returns but I'm hoping to get some insight/help from him as well.

Thanks for reading, any help is greatly appreciated.
Andrew

 

[07V70]

Andrew
You have tapped into one of the best sources of information on 140's on the planet. 142 Guy have just been through a lot if not all of the situations your encountering. I'm fairly sure he and others will respond and help you throughout your situations. Your "glass man" will come in handy I'm sure. As for your storage deal, most of us on the "mainland" are envious of your climate. Keep posting as it keeps this forum energized and reinforcing the beliefs in our own 140's. ......

 

[142 Guy]

Along the bottom of the rear window there is an air extraction vent. Below this vent (inside the trunk) there is a plastic collection box with drain hoses on either end to collect water that enters the extraction vent. The tray is sealed to the body with a mastic that hardens and shrinks over time. During a hard rain storm or exuberant car washing, water will leak out around the edges of the collection box and into the trunk. I was getting water collecting in the spare wheel wells in my trunk whenever I washed my car. I initially assumed it was incorrect installation of my new trunk gasket, removed and reinstalled it and accomplished nothing! I had to have somebody hold a running hose on the roof of the car with the trunk open while I stuck my head in there and looked for the source of water. May or may not be the source of your problem; but, worth a look.

I think the last of the 140s and the early 240s may have had a fair number of common parts. I don't think the 1971 and 1990 have too much in common; but, it was free so there is no cost in finding out.

Your windshield looks like the bonded version. Removal of the trim around the windshield is not that hard. Get one of those hard plastic 'chisels' made specifically for trim removal to pry the trim up. I think I started at the corners. You could use a rounded off flat blade screwdriver; but, you run a greater risk of scratching the trim. The clips you ordered, are those the metal clips around the windshield? If not, you will need to plan for the replacement of some / all of them since they rust out. They are still in production - perhaps that is a common part with the 240? You should be able to remove the windshield without damaging it. Involves the use of piano wire to slice through the bonding sealant. You need some patience, muscle and strong hands. Your buddy in the glass business should have the correct 'piano wire' tool.

Good luck with it. I look forward to future posts. It was -18C here this morning so my 142 is now wrapped up in its storage bag until spring. I now have to get my Volvo fix vicariously by reading Swedespeed!

 

[Aloha142]

Neil, and how did you resolve the collection box leak in the rear? anything besides pulling the glass would be a better problem to have, now you've got me thinking I'm overlooking things. "check the front inner fender where it joins the body just behind the hood hinge mounting point" would this be a possible entry point for water while parked[~15deg downhill slope]? I've yet to pull the front fenders but id be more than happy for this to be my problem, shoot i had the day off today and i could have went in and pulled them. shame on me for waiting so long to crate this thread.
currently googling pictures to see if i can find examples of that rust point. and yeah the clips are for the windshield trim, 23 of em, still unsure if thats for the front only or the rear as well. Tasca was $1.xx compared to VPs $4.xx per piece which was quite surprising.
Thank you for the insight on the glass as well. as 07V70 mentioned your knowledge is proving invaluable.

edit: found a pic….I've never hoped for a rust hole so badly before, ill go looking for this in the next couple days, keep you guys posted

 

[rixt]

Hi Andrew,

Rust under the fenders can cause a lot of water running into your cabin, atttached a link to a Dutch forum were I posted photos from the repaires I did with my 1972 144. If you want to check if you've got serious rust there you not have to remove the fender but simply look under the dashboard and you'll see if you have a problem there or not.
The story starts with post 37:http://volvolvo.nl/threads/11671-apktje-enzo/page4
From the 240 you've got you still can use a lot of steelwork for a 144, I've used a lot of 240 stuff for several 140 projects I have, If you start with page 1 of the link in this post you can see how I used the rear fenders from a crached 1993 240 to solve my rust problem. Some more examples of 240 coachparts used in a 140 can be seen in this link: http://volvolvo.nl/threads/11675-projectje

Best regards,

Mathieu.

 

[142 Guy]

First off - my screw-up #1. The collection box is metal and tack welded to the body. I fixed the water leak around the collection box by scraping / chiseling / prying off the old sealant (looked like butyl putty) and applying new sealant. I used a slower setting urethane body sealant which could be tooled by finger - the spot is too difficult to get at to use a fast setting conventional urethane sealant. The picture below shows the spot where the water leaks out. It is a real pain to get at and fix.



If you are getting water in the front, check for plugged drain holes at the bottom of the fresh air vents. Air (and water) enters the car through the grill at the base of the windshield. The air inlet grill is connected to the fresh air vents / doors located in the left and right kick spaces. There should be drains at the bottom of the air vent openings to allow water that enters through the grill to drain out. Chances are the drain holes are plugged with dirt / leaves / twigs. The heater also gets its fresh air supply through the grill at the base of the windshield. The heater inlet is located in the center of the grill. The foam gasket around the heater inlet has likely hardened and deteriorated which can allow moisture to enter into the interior. However, my recollection is that the channel under the grill slopes to the left and right so I would expect the moisture to drain to the left and right rather than towards the heater inlet. Anyway, a couple of areas to check to see if they are the source of the water - and easier to fix than a rust hole!

My second screw-up. Don't start prying the windshield trim at the corners. It is better to start with the straight sections. If you want to save your paint, you insert the chisel like tool from the glass side and carefully pry the trim up. Works best if you can start opposite to one of the retaining clips, if you have an idea as to where they are located. You can pry a corner off first; however, you will likely end up distorting it slightly. That is what I did and then had this sudden flash this AM that thinking back, it probably wasn't the best way to do it. The good news is that the trim is quite tough and can with a little care be restored. I was originally going to do black out trim on my car; however, after a little straightening, gentle hammering and polishing decided to stick with the polished stainless on the front and back glass and did a light clean up on the aluminum around the doors and rear quarter glass.

No clips for the trim on the rear glass. The rear window is held in place with a gasket and the trim fits into the gasket. The front window trim is easy to reinstall and the rear window trim can be a major pain. There is a secret knowledge to doing the rear window trim and you may want to consult your glass buddy to see if he has 'the knowledge'. The secret apparently involves using a small cord of some kind. If you don't have 'the knowledge', best to make sure there are no children or sensitive people around as you may find yourself verbally expressing frustration, repeatedly!

The rust perforations that I had at the attachment point for the inner fender to the body (just back from the hood hinge mounting point) were located where the inner fender is spot welded to the body. I have circled the problem areas in black in the photo below. Normally you can see if you have a rust problem from inside the engine compartment. My rust perforations were through the inner fender adjacent to the spot weld seam. I had some surface rusting on the body / firewall adjacent to this seam; but, no perforations. The body steel at this location is quite heavy. If you had a body perforation at this point on the engine compartment side, it might be possible for water to pool on the top of the wheel well and get in to the interior through a hole; but, not a lot unless you left the hood up during a rain storm! I don't see storm water entering through any perforations in the body in the space between the inner and outer fender as my recollection is that the body sheet metal is almost vertical at this point. Water could enter if it was being thrown off the front wheel as the car is driven which is why dirt accumulates at this spot leading to rust!

Note, based upon the size of the rust holes that Mathieu had at this location, I could see storm water entering, along with small rodents and reptiles seeking shelter! In retrospect, my rust repairs were pretty minor compared to what others have dealt with. Go with Mathieu's advice on the body panel replacements. I based my comments on the fact that I owned a 1979 242 GT and the 142 E at the same time and based upon the profiles of the trunk edges and the front fenders I didn't think that you could do any wholesale replacements; however, things like sill sections, wheel arches and the like may be useable. I defer to somebody with actual experience!

 

[rixt]

the rear window trim can be a major pain. There is a secret knowledge to doing the rear window trim and you may want to consult your glass buddy to see if he has 'the knowledge'. The secret apparently involves using a small cord of some kind. If you don't have 'the knowledge', best to make sure there are no children or sensitive people around as you may find yourself verbally expressing frustration, repeatedly!

Leave the trim where it is! There is no need to remove it when you need to remove the rear window, it simple can stay were it is. However, if you have to fit a new gasket, fit the trim before you install the new gasket to the rear window. A third hand might be welcome by such a job!

Best regards,

Mathieu.

 

[Aloha142]

So much great info..... Sitting at work right now, can't wait to get home and check things out. Get back tonight with results.

 

[142 Guy]

Leave the trim where it is! There is no need to remove it when you need to remove the rear window, it simple can stay were it is. However, if you have to fit a new gasket, fit the trim before you install the new gasket to the rear window. A third hand might be welcome by such a job!

Best regards,

Mathieu.

I clearly lack imagination! That is not something I would have thought of. When you remove the glass, are you prying the glass out of the gasket with the gasket and trim left on the body or are you taking the glass, gasket and trim out as one piece and then removing the glass from the gasket and trim? If you do the first, I think you would have to be very careful to avoid mangling the trim.

 

[Aloha142]

Geez Mathieu, your rust issues are on a whole other level, hats off to you on all the work you've put in.

Okay i checked everywhere under the hood, nothing too extreme, only visible rust in the concerned area is at the very top/back of the inner fender/body seam, which is mostly covered by the outer fender. Ill pull the fenders this weekend at the latest. here's what I'm seeing under the dash, the very top corner, what I'm assuming is the opposite side of the mentioned seam[hard to pinpoint without being able to look at everything in the area]:

Upon inspection of the rear, i feel like an idiot, as i noticed this exact problem last month while working on the other rust and completely forgot about it. Neil you're not kidding when you say its a pain to work on. not looking forward to laying upside down on the gas tank but again, still better than pulling glass.

and i noticed this gasket looked beat but i didn't know it was this bad, not a concern as far as water entry though, hopefully the 240s still have this and i can steal this awkward seam from the donor.

otherwise i don't see any need to cut up the 240. I definitely could have used the seatbelt support a month ago though. I'll hold onto it for a while and see what else i can salvage from it but at this point its looking like my glass problems were a product of me jumping to conclusions, a little embarrassed, but hey, its my first time so mistakes will be made, if i had actually pulled the glass i may have had to change my screen name and abandon this thread
excellent info on the trim removal and pointers on the rear seal, just the kind of tricks i was looking for. i will need to pull mine from the seal at some point for repair, as theres quite a deep dent in the top of the passenger side, I've been keeping an eye on ebay for a replacement.
i actually just watched a video showing the rope trick the other night while researching, not sure if this applies with the 142 seam/seal? no urethane?

 

[rixt]

I clearly lack imagination! That is not something I would have thought of. When you remove the glass, are you prying the glass out of the gasket with the gasket and trim left on the body or are you taking the glass, gasket and trim out as one piece and then removing the glass from the gasket and trim? If you do the first, I think you would have to be very careful to avoid mangling the trim.

Hi Neil,

When I remove a window I sit back in the car and with a big flat screwdriver I push the gasket over the rim. In the beginning it is a bit difficult but if you've done 2" it goes easy. When you've finished the topside and you are halfway the sides you can push the window carefully out. Takes about 15 minutes. Attached a, poor, photo that I did this afternoon to show you how it looks. I have done many windows like this and never had any problem with a damaged trim. ! In fact I've never removed a rear window because of water ingress but only for repairs on the rim, fitting windows with working heating and even one a window becuase the "new"had a better trim!


Hi Andrew,

Seems to be little rust on your car! That is good news! But I advise you to remove the sealing paste in that corner under you dashboard and remove the rust as much as possible. The rust might have affect allready more steel than you can see. To find out were my car was leaking I have been laying up-side down in my car while my girlfriend was spraying water with the hose from the garden!

 

[142 Guy]

Mathieu - I will store this in the mental tool box. Hopefully I don't need to use it. Would have saved some frustration about 15 months ago!

Andrew - I support Mathieu’s comment about removing the sealant in the corner to expose the metal. In fact, because it just involves time, effort, scraped knuckles and only a small amount of money (for the replacement sealant), I would be inclined to remove sealant everywhere on the car. At a number of locations on my car I found rust below what looked like intact sealant. You are going to be seriously P...d if you discover rust starting to form or water leaking in after you have completed repairs and done paint work. I had a few words when I discovered my leaking vent collector box and had to get in and scrape stuff after the car had been painted and put back together!

As a side note, in case you are giving possible consideration to this, media / sand blasting is not super effective at removing sealant or undercoating. The undercoating and sealant is soft and tends to absorb the impact energy of the blast media rather than fracturing and flaking off like paint or other hard / brittle materials like rust. When we carted my car off to the sandblaster's shop, he was really happy to see that I had removed most of the thick sections of undercoating and seam sealant. He disliked trying to remove lots of undercoat with the blaster because it took so long and risked damaging adjacent panels that were bare.

 

[Aloha142]

Oh trust me the seam sealer will be removed. i just don't want to start messing with it until i have the car at work and i can pull the fenders. I know i won't be able to get this car stripped bare for blasting but I'm okay with it. I have been stripping sealant in any questionable areas i find, even went as far as stripping the whole seam where water was coming in to the rear carpet from the fender well, just to check. the worst spot I've found so far was in the trunk on both sides circled here:

a lot of sealer globbed on which i believe is why it separates, similar to the collection box seal job, luckily it was just surface rust under there but it went quite a ways up, so i wire wheeled, treated with osphos, por15, then re sealed those areas. at some point i will get under the car and repeat the process on the other side of that seam, as well as chip away any areas that look unusual. I had been purposely avoiding looking at the front until the rear was all patched up, another mistake on my part in hindsight.
my neighbor has needle scaler i can borrow when i please as well which has come in handy on several areas to clean up/break away any surface rust that can be treated.

we had a flash flood watch today so the car stayed home. tomorrows supposed to be clear so hopefully after work i can remove the fenders before dark and get this fixed by monday.

 

[142 Guy]

In the photograph above where you have circled the problem area in the trunk in black, take a pointy tool and probe the area in the wheel arch between the inner wheel well and the outer fender (about 4-5 " just to the left of the area you circled in black). Its a notorious rust area for 140s and 240s. If you don't have any rust there you should pop open a bottle of bubbly to celebrate New Years and having the only 140 that never rusted in that spot!

I am curious about your springs. The gold color is non stock and the wire diameter looks larger than stock; however, your ride height looks very much like stock. Do you have matching springs on the front or are these perhaps some after market overload springs?

Have a good New Year

Neil

 

[Aloha142]

Oh I'm not immune to that fender seam rust, driver side had a hole through the inner, while the passenger side has a hole through the outer. Patched the inner, I plan to tackle the outer at the same time I do the quarter panel above the rocker.

The springs are aftermarket, previous owner purchased them as he said he planned to "rally" the car before plans changed. Really stiff spring rates, the kyb's in the rear can't keep up with them, which makes for a pretty poor ride. Nice in the turns but a sway bar would have been a better modification in my opinion.

Got her to my job today so I'll start tearing the front off when I clock out. Already found more rust under the hood now that I have sunlight and space to look. Not the best news but still, better than pulling the glass.

Happy new year to you folks as well. Can't wait to see where the car is in a year from now.

 

[Aloha142]

had a couple hours before sunset to look things over. also had to run to the parts store as a headlamp burnt out sometime in the past few days, so i only had time to remove the pass. side and this is what I'm dealing with. i will say the drivers side is looks to be in better condition than this.

This seam is opposite the the top corner behind the dash, which is where i suspect water is entering. need to use some imagination as far as making a patch, possibly the 240 has a similar seam i could steal.

directly above, so the hood/hinges need to be pulled to access that repair

this whole front seam is a mess

random area on the way down the seam

and the bottom in front of the rocker

still amazes me how localized the rust is, where millimeters separate perfectly good metal from completely rotted. tomorrow I'm taking the day off for a ride, then back to this rust.