SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,967 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<A HREF="http://my.is/forums/showthread.php?s=8c9d44ee7ed14d9be395903e907f33fb&t=295106" TARGET="_blank">http://my.is/forums/showthread...95106</A><p>If Lexus really does focus on the chassis dynamics and steering feel they might finally have a contender.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,344 Posts
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (rollie)

Looks nice, but if the reliability of your R makes you yawn, the IS500 will likely bore you to tears. That said, I'd be among the first in line if the back seat was more family-friendly... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>- Tryg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,582 Posts
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (rollie)

I think it's being made to be more of a M3 crusher. No one is really trying to compete with Volvo because Volvo isn't the benchmark for performance. lolM3envy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
699 Posts
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (RainyS60R)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>RainyS60R</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks nice, but if the reliability of your R makes you yawn, the IS500 will likely bore you to tears. That said, I'd be among the first in line if the back seat was more family-friendly... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>- Tryg</TD></TR></TABLE><p>What? Are you implying your R has bad reliability? ...Because that's not what your sig says.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,344 Posts
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (NRM8573)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>PhilUp</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think it's being made to be more of a M3 crusher. No one is really trying to compete with Volvo because Volvo isn't the benchmark for performance. lolM3envy.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I think Rollie is comparing the IS500 to other cars he has been eyeing rather than comparing it to the <B><I>R</I></B>. It might be the M3 that has envy, but I doubt Lexus can surpass the performance of the proven M3 on its try.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>NRM8573</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What? Are you implying your R has bad reliability? ...Because that's not what your sig says.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>No, exactly the opposite. Rollie and I have rock-solid '04's and Rollie has joked in the past that his car is almost <I>too </I>reliable and, therefore, a little boring (I think he also mentioned that there are many cars on the market today offering much higher levels of performance with similar lux). <p>Rollie, I hope I am not misstating your opinion on the <I><B>R</B>.</I><p>- Tryg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,967 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (RainyS60R)

I couldn't have said it better myself <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,100 Posts
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (rollie)

Hmm 60K retail. And that's before the dealer starts putting stuff on it. Based on the raves on this forum about the IS 350 I went to a dealer in Denver (I was there for a bike race and the dealer was across the street) and looked one over. Smaller inside than I had imagined (smaller than the R I thought) and - this is no typo - the dealer had loaded it up with stuff so the sticker price was a few hundred shy of 50K.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,967 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (Hi Alt R)

Performance sedan prices have simply skyrocketed in the past few years. I've been coveting the new Audi RS4 but with sticker prices in the low 70s it's just too much for this size of a car particularly given that it will be owned by the cheaper M3 next year.<p>I spent some time at the BMW dealer yesterday and was surprised to see the 550s on the lot all have $70k+ stickers (that's MSRP with no markup or aftermarket stuff added but with most factory options.) Even a Porsche Cayman which theoretically starts in the mid 50s can't be had for under $70k with typical options.<p>Based on the pricing for V8 performance sedans and the fact that Volvo is loading incentives of up to $10k, <A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=60637" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=60637</A> , on the R the next R is going to need a V8 just to have any chance of being sold as an alternative (I had hopes for a well balanced twin turbo I6 but now I'm thinking it may not be the right recipe by the time a new R bows.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,180 Posts
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (rollie)

Wagon?<p>The R does just fine for the wagon market. Could use more ponies, a shorter turning radius and RSE, and then it would be perfect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,340 Posts
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (rollie)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>rollie</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Based on the pricing for V8 performance sedans and the fact that Volvo is loading incentives of up to $10k, <A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=60637" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=60637</A> , on the R the next R is going to need a V8 just to have any chance of being sold as an alternative (I had hopes for a well balanced twin turbo I6 but now I'm thinking it may not be the right recipe by the time a new R bows.)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Why not? I'd much rather have a well set up twin turbo I-6 than a V8 in an S60 Sized platform. Unless the V8 was really light, or if you did a "mid-front" engined setup similar to a Ferrari 599, then you have that really heavy mass sitting out over the front of the car. No good. <p>BMW's new I6 has 300 HP but IIRC it's running low boost to gain "spoolability" and throttle response.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,967 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (needsdecaf)

I seem to recall reading here once or twice that Volvo's current iteration of the V8 weighs the same as the old T6? If that's the case the issue is placement and if Volvo sticks with a transverse layout there's no need to have the engine hanging out over the front axle like say a S4 which understeers signficantly when you push it in the corners.<p><br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>needsdecaf</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Why not? I'd much rather have a well set up twin turbo I-6 than a V8 in an S60 Sized platform. Unless the V8 was really light, or if you did a "mid-front" engined setup similar to a Ferrari 599, then you have that really heavy mass sitting out over the front of the car. No good. <p>BMW's new I6 has 300 HP but IIRC it's running low boost to gain "spoolability" and throttle response. </TD></TR></TABLE>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,052 Posts
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (rollie)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>rollie</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I seem to recall reading here once or twice that Volvo's current iteration of the V8 weighs the same as the old T6? If that's the case the issue is placement and if Volvo sticks with a transverse layout there's no need to have the engine hanging out over the front axle like say a S4 which understeers signficantly when you push it in the corners.<p><br></TD></TR></TABLE><p><br>Isn't Volvo forced to place the engine just over/ahead of the axle just like the S4? I was almost certain that due to the placement of the differential/gearing for the awd that the engine had to be placed there for proper fitment. I could be wrong on this though. <p>Also, the properties of AWD in these cars force them to inherently understeer as a by-product of the torque that is sent to the front wheels. Plus as a safety-feature, volvo adds plenty of understeer. No matter what the car is going to understeer significantly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,967 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (Vipergtsz3)

Yes and no. Volvo does like to add understeer to their bread and butter vehicles and unfortunately the R is based off of one of these (which is all Volvo has of course.)<p>AWD does not have to inherently understeer. The S4 understeers because the engine sits much further forward than it does in other cars including the R. Audi fixed this in the RS4 and all new S4s and RS4s now come with rear-biased AWD. <p>The R's AWD is front-biased really when it doesn't matter - in a straight line. Toss the R into a corner and it will go from understeering to neutral to oversteering as it progresses through the corner (very unnatural feeling at first but if you learn to use it you can corner quite nicely - you just won't get the proper connection to the road to know exactly what's going on all the time but that's a steering issue, not AWD.) Remember, when you stand on the gas in the R in a corner (or launch from rest) it can and typically will route a lot of the torque to the rear. This applies to my '04. I haven't launched an '06 with 'Instant Traction' yet but it should be even better since the bog from power transfer is minimized.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Vipergtsz3</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p><br>Isn't Volvo forced to place the engine just over/ahead of the axle just like the S4? I was almost certain that due to the placement of the differential/gearing for the awd that the engine had to be placed there for proper fitment. I could be wrong on this though. <p>Also, the properties of AWD in these cars force them to inherently understeer as a by-product of the torque that is sent to the front wheels. Plus as a safety-feature, volvo adds plenty of understeer. No matter what the car is going to understeer significantly. </TD></TR></TABLE>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
398 Posts
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (rollie)

Bottom line is the Volvo Rebate is a helluva deal I dunno if I can pass it up! I am cursed by my 50% Danish heritage and I want one of these R cars. IPD's V70R turned some very respectable results with some hardware and MTE tuning for about $15K total. A modest $3500 will get you an exhaust+downpipe+stage 2 software with add $580 more for an Aquamist and you will consistently and safely generate EDIT CHANGED TO 375HP all day long, still alot less money than the new IS500 or S4 with enough performance to keep in the ballpark of the more expensive cars. Hopefully the custom kit IPD did for the R will come down in price abit. Give these new $70K cars a a big surprise.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by s40R at 10:43 PM 6-20-2006</i>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,472 Posts
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (rollie)

I thinks Audi's are priced so ridiculous high because of their race and pioneering and race programs. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,374 Posts
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (cloaked)

This is all and good for you sedan lovers, but for us wagon folks, there is precious little to get interested in.<p>I looked at the Audi S-4 Avant, but the back seat was just too small. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0"> Since then, I have seen that Audi has had some reliability problems. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>What have any of you seen in the way of interesting wagons? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,707 Posts
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (Lead Foot 60)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Lead Foot 60</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is all and good for you sedan lovers, but for us wagon folks, there is precious little to get interested in.<p>I looked at the Audi S-4 Avant, but the back seat was just too small. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0"> Since then, I have seen that Audi has had some reliability problems. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>What have any of you seen in the way of interesting wagons? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Doesn't get too much faster than this<p><IMG SRC="http://www.auto123.com/06photo/mercedes/eclasswagon4dr-e55amg.jpg" BORDER="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
799 Posts
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (rollie)

Lexus is slowly but surely focusing on performance with their cars. The luxury and reliability aspect they've perfected. I drove a 07 ES350 a month ago and it was really nice. I mean really nice, expecially for the money. But it still felt like a Camry. Oops.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,052 Posts
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (r_driver04)

Yeah, their performance has gotten better, but like MB, it leaves the driver out. The R isn't exactly the pinnacle of driver involvement, but at least the car feels like it has a personality. All Lexus (Lexi?) seem too be just too sterile to me. To each his own.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,967 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: Yikes, another R crusher in the works... (Vipergtsz3)

Actually BMW is headed this way these days. The e90 330 is quieter at highway speeds than Lexus in recent comparos. With the addition of electronic steering BMW is going in the wrong direction when it comes to driver involvement. I'm waiting for the 335 to debut to see if BMW sticks to their roots or continues down the electronic gadgetry path at the expense of driver involvement.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top