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Hydrogen fuelcell EV is more expensive than plain EV and hydrogen production is also much more costly. The emission to produce hydrogen is also a problem because if you use natual gas to produce it, the carbon in natual gas has to be separated in some form.

I doubt how much population it will be affordable to.

The water, wind, solar renewable energy is the only clean energy, but supply is so limited. If we only use renewble energy for family cars, most drivers would need to give up driving at all, because the fuel cost would increase from 10c to $1 per mile. We will need to make fusion power possible.

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The truly green hydrogen is still years out, as you say, with wind powering plants that produce ammonia. Tons of energy lost wit every conversion from water to hydrogen to ammonia back to hydrogen, plus the transportation cost of getting hydrogen from the source like Saudi Arabia to Europe. Air Products Group is working on a project in Saudi’s Arabia right now that will do this, but it’s years out.
 

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Plenty of new-product chatter happening on News & Rumors. My suggested bottom line:

-- Ignore any postings by Henrik from his gym or favorite fishing hole.

-- Look for next gen XC90 in 2022 for MY23; although COVID + chips + supply chain issues may force it to late-22 (e.g. ~week 46) vs. earlier (~week 17). Maybe near 2" longer, mostly behind rear axle w/ no change to wheelbase. Watch for "all EV !!" marketing hysteria, even though XC60 is already there.

-- After that, all the big splash will got to EV, but I think reengineering SPA2 for EV only has caused delays in the name of more-competitive vehicles.

-- Wondering what happens to XC60 mid-decade, would be due for next gen but maybe just gets a 2nd refresh? After new battery/ERAD goes into production in Nov, I don't see any further engineering changes going to ICE, ever.

-- No one cares about S, V, and V/CC looking to mid-decade and beyond. XC ICE hybrids will be the volume bridge to all EV by 2030-ish.
I’m watching for the bigger XC90, if it comes along at all, that has full electric capabilities. It’s just more fun to drive electric and we need the space. The XC90 would do fine, but more space would be welcomed. No idea when this would realistically be buyable. Maybe 2024 since I wouldn’t want it right out the gate?
 

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The truly green hydrogen is still years out, as you say, with wind powering plants that produce ammonia. Tons of energy lost wit every conversion from water to hydrogen to ammonia back to hydrogen, plus the transportation cost of getting hydrogen from the source like Saudi Arabia to Europe. Air Products Group is working on a project in Saudi’s Arabia right now that will do this, but it’s years out.
Hydrogen production from fossil resource is not green, and could never be. There is natural gas but no natural hydrogen. The conversion process is expensive, and not green. It is only green if electrified from water by electricity from other renewable source. This means hydrogen could never be as economical as using solar/water/wind power directly.
 

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The jury is still out, although few manufacturers (BMW only perhaps) have publicly stated that they still support continued ICE development. Hyundai is also making waves with hydrogen propulsion testing...but not sure if any of this will stop the perhaps misguided EV push...

The facts are that Lithium batteries (although not toxic) are also not clean (i.e., CO2 emitting in their mining/manufacturing) and as of yet, recyling them hasn't been refined.

A new (or retrofitted) ICE, burning "green" hydrogen (e.g., made without fossil fuels and via renewable energy) would be infinitely cleaner over its lifecycle than any EV!
We'll see if anyone can pull this off in time; Volvo has made their intentions clear enough, that this is not the path that they are on...
More info here:

 

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Hydrogen production from fossil resource is not green, and could never be. There is natural gas but no natural hydrogen. The conversion process is expensive, and not green. It is only green if electrified from water by electricity from other renewable source. This means hydrogen could never be as economical as using solar/water/wind power directly.
Yes that’s what I said unless I am misunderstanding you, green hydrogen is from renewable generation. You can’t ever really use renewables to power a car so I’m not sure it’s a fair comparison to say hydrogen could never be as economical as renewables. Neither are evs, they are powered by a battery and not directly from renewables. Hydrogen isn’t as efficient as electric cars but there are some use cases for them if the hydrogen can be made cheap, made into ammonia to transport then back into hydrogen fuel near fueling stations. It’s more of a European story than a North American one since they are closer to the solar capabilities of the Middle East.
 

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I don't understand why solar capabilities are associated with the Middle East particularly. I thought the Middle East part is that there is a lot natural gas resource in the Middle East and hydrogen could be made out of it, quite expensive though.
 

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I never believe manufacturer's statement about stopping producing ICE based vehicles. At least in Canada, the charging network is not built and electricity system is fragile. The demand of ICE vehicles is still there.

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The demand for ICE vehicles will never go out of style, not everyone will fancy electric made cars... IMO
 

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The demand for ICE vehicles will never go out of style, not everyone will fancy electric made cars... IMO
Very much agree that they will not go out of style. If they are even 25% of all cars, that’s a lot less ice demand. You can also have “hybrid” cars that are mostly ice but just have regenerative braking. So we could live in a world in 50 years where most cars are hybrid or ice but really everyone who wants ice still has it. If you think about where ev was only five years ago (Prius and Tesla) to now a Volvo dealership has mostly ev advertising, the change is happening more quickly than most would have guessed.
 

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Very much agree that they will not go out of style. If they are even 25% of all cars, that’s a lot less ice demand. You can also have “hybrid” cars that are mostly ice but just have regenerative braking. So we could live in a world in 50 years where most cars are hybrid or ice but really everyone who wants ice still has it. If you think about where ev was only five years ago (Prius and Tesla) to now a Volvo dealership has mostly ev advertising, the change is happening more quickly than most would have guessed.
From Tesla S (in2010) till now it has been 11 years. It is happening not much faster than we can imagine.
 
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Very much agree that they will not go out of style. If they are even 25% of all cars, that’s a lot less ice demand. You can also have “hybrid” cars that are mostly ice but just have regenerative braking. So we could live in a world in 50 years where most cars are hybrid or ice but really everyone who wants ice still has it. If you think about where ev was only five years ago (Prius and Tesla) to now a Volvo dealership has mostly ev advertising, the change is happening more quickly than most would have guessed.
Very much agree with you, buddy. Hybrid cars might as well be the solution.
 

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XC90 T8 Inscription Crystal White 20" | Air suspension | B&W | luxury line | HUD
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I think that is correct.
My understanding is that Volvo stops developing IEC engines, but will continue to produce them for a number of years.
And who knows what the future will bring, perhaps we will see the rebirth of the ICE engine, running on hydrogen.
Not in the classic way.. Hydrogen based cars will internally convert H2 to electricity and so you will be propelled by an electrical engine. Think of it as a range extender. I already sat in one (a Hyundai).
 

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Factor in all the trips you make to the gas station. Often once a week. Then consider for an ev that you almost never have to wait since you charge at home or at work. If once in a while you have to wait 15 minutes to charge on the road, you still come out ahead.
That's quite idiosyncratic :) A lot of people don't have their own personal charger and rely on public chargers. Waiting queues are very real (here in western Europe it's quite normal to not have your own driveway or parking space).
 

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That's quite idiosyncratic :) A lot of people don't have their own personal charger and rely on public chargers. Waiting queues are very real (here in western Europe it's quite normal to not have your own driveway or parking space).
I don’t mean to suggest that people should be forced to buy an ev if it doesn’t work for them. It will be difficult to reconcile a lack of charging capacity and the aggressive emissions targets that Europe has in place. A difficult problem. If there are regularly hour-long queues for a charge.. not sure how you convince your citizens to buy an ev. Although they are rare we can see that petrol queues are now going on in the UK. There need to be alternatives available if countries are pushing regulation on drivers.
 

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They might eventually back away from this considering the battery component shortages and mineral scarcity coming up. There really needs to be some more battery innovations come about very soon. We have heard about various things for years and not much of anything new has been released to the market concerning batteries.
 

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ICE is always cheaper and better for more than half of the population, in USA at least. I can't imaging if everyone drives EV, and used EV. And every charge station has a long line up.
But it is a market at Volvo don't care.
Charging at home will make lines no worse than has esp as faster chg times develop
 

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Charging at home will make lines no worse than has esp as faster chg times develop
Significant portion of population live in apartment and don't have charging facility at home.

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