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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So will the MY 2022 XC90 T5/T6 be the last ICE for Volvo, with the MY 2022.5 reportedly going to be all electric?
 
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I never believe manufacturer's statement about stopping producing ICE based vehicles. At least in Canada, the charging network is not built and electricity system is fragile. The demand of ICE vehicles is still there.

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Consumer demand or not, their goal is by 2025, 50% of global sales to consist of fully electric cars, with the rest hybrids. And by 2030, every car fully electric.
(This implies that the B5 and B6 could stick around awhile, even past 2025, but the T5 and T6 (not clear) but they likely to exit once removed from the XC90?)

So it is not a question of if, just when...
A direct quote from them:
“There is no long-term future for cars with an internal combustion engine,” said Henrik Green, chief technology officer. “We are firmly committed to becoming an electric-only car maker and the transition should happen by 2030. It will allow us to meet the expectations of our customers and be a part of the solution when it comes to fighting climate change.”
https://www.media.volvocars.com/glo...77409/volvo-cars-to-be-fully-electric-by-2030

I don't think any region will be exempt; certainly not Europe and most likely not North America either. The B5 and B6 may stay around a little while for ICE fans, maybe until 2025 but not likely until 2030.
 

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The demand for ice will be there. It will just be a lot lower than today. By regulators or by consumers, it will happen. The charging networks will pop up quickly once the demand is there.
 

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ICE is always cheaper and better for more than half of the population, in USA at least. I can't imaging if everyone drives EV, and used EV. And every charge station has a long line up.
But it is a market at Volvo don't care.
 

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Volvo can say "I don't care" . However, when its sales volume goes down, it will think it again. Please look what is happening in China now, it buys and produce coal as much as possible......does EV full of roads make difference?

The only solution is lowering down the total population in the world, which regulators don't want to take actions due to their position of "politically correct".

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Volvo can say "I don't care" . However, when its sales volume goes down, it will think it again. Please look what is happening in China now, it buys and produce coal as much as possible......does EV full of roads make difference?

The only solution is lowering down the total population in the world, which regulators don't want to take actions due to their position of "politically correct".

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That’s not really true. There is a big meeting in Glasgow in a few weeks where many countries will agree to limit emissions. EV is one of those initiatives. It’s not perfect but every bit helps and the targets being set out are ambitious albeit within reach. Doesn’t sound so bad to
me.
 

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My understanding was that Volvo would not necessarily be purely electric, but would still produce hybrid cars until 2030 or even later.
 
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That’s not really true. There is a big meeting in Glasgow in a few weeks where many countries will agree to limit emissions. EV is one of those initiatives. It’s not perfect but every bit helps and the targets being set out are ambitious albeit within reach. Doesn’t sound so bad to
me.
EV is surely a good way to go for many countries in Europe and Asia. However it is not the economical way for USA. And before nuclear fusion power becomes reality, whether EV is helpful for our Earth (reduce CO2 and pollution) is still not proved.
 
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My understanding was that Volvo would not necessarily be purely electric, but would still produce hybrid cars until 2030 or even later.
I think that is correct.
My understanding is that Volvo stops developing IEC engines, but will continue to produce them for a number of years.
And who knows what the future will bring, perhaps we will see the rebirth of the ICE engine, running on hydrogen.
 

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EV is surely a good way to go for many countries in Europe and Asia. However it is not the economical way for USA. And before nuclear fusion power becomes reality, whether EV is helpful for our Earth (reduce CO2 and pollution) is still not proved.
EV engines are far more efficient than ice. The entire world has bought into them being helpful for reducing CO2. We are way past deciding if EV are the future. Economical doesn’t matter- many of the projects being taken on to reduce carbon are not economical, but they are going to reduce emissions. I encourage you to watch the COP26 conference that will be held in a few weeks.
 

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EV cars also have far fewer parts and moving parts, which with increase in technology, experience and scale may get cheaper, more reliable and with better performance than ICE.

As far with charging stations, the charging times will decrease (albeit slowly, in my opinion) and stations availability, given the right economical model, it most definitely will scale very fast and will no longer be an issue.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The jury is still out, although few manufacturers (BMW only perhaps) have publicly stated that they still support continued ICE development. Hyundai is also making waves with hydrogen propulsion testing...but not sure if any of this will stop the perhaps misguided EV push...

The facts are that Lithium batteries (although not toxic) are also not clean (i.e., CO2 emitting in their mining/manufacturing) and as of yet, recyling them hasn't been refined.

A new (or retrofitted) ICE, burning "green" hydrogen (e.g., made without fossil fuels and via renewable energy) would be infinitely cleaner over its lifecycle than any EV!
We'll see if anyone can pull this off in time; Volvo has made their intentions clear enough, that this is not the path that they are on...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Actually, this concept is much further along than I had thought; see attached link and redundant .pdf:
 

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I certainly hope that the charging infrastructure improves at the same rate that manufactures claim to be going all electric. If you just take short drives, charge at home and no worries. But what gives me pause about buying electric right now is more cars taking longer drives, and needing to charge at a station. I know of a tourist town that has 2 chargers total. What happens when 4 cars arrive that need to be charged? With a gas station you wait 5 minutes in line and then it’s your turn. With chargers that require you to park, plug in, and wait 15 minutes minimum (for most cars )-who wants to wait for this? It’s one thing if you find a charger, go to lunch, come back to a fully charged car. That means that that charger has been in use for much longer and therefore the next car has to put off charging even longer. We would need many more chargers and faster charging times for this to work. It only works now because the percentage of electric cars is a fraction of ICE cars.
 
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Hydrogen fuelcell EV is more expensive than plain EV and hydrogen production is also much more costly. The emission to produce hydrogen is also a problem because if you use natual gas to produce it, the carbon in natual gas has to be separated in some form.

I doubt how much population it will be affordable to.

The water, wind, solar renewable energy is the only clean energy, but supply is so limited. If we only use renewble energy for family cars, most drivers would need to give up driving at all, because the fuel cost would increase from 10c to $1 per mile. We will need to make fusion power possible.

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Plenty of new-product chatter happening on News & Rumors. My suggested bottom line:

-- Ignore any postings by Henrik from his gym or favorite fishing hole.

-- Look for next gen XC90 in 2022 for MY23; although COVID + chips + supply chain issues may force it to late-22 (e.g. ~week 46) vs. earlier (~week 17). Maybe near 2" longer, mostly behind rear axle w/ no change to wheelbase. Watch for "all EV !!" marketing hysteria, even though XC60 is already there.

-- After that, all the big splash will got to EV, but I think reengineering SPA2 for EV only has caused delays in the name of more-competitive vehicles.

-- Wondering what happens to XC60 mid-decade, would be due for next gen but maybe just gets a 2nd refresh? After new battery/ERAD goes into production in Nov, I don't see any further engineering changes going to ICE, ever.

-- No one cares about S, V, and V/CC looking to mid-decade and beyond. XC ICE hybrids will be the volume bridge to all EV by 2030-ish.
 
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A coupe shaped wagon EV, even slightly jacked up crossover, has 20-30 miles more range than SUV by nature. This comes for free and even less costly. I certainly like it more than 5seat SUVs. :)

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The jury is still out, although few manufacturers (BMW only perhaps) have publicly stated that they still support continued ICE development. Hyundai is also making waves with hydrogen propulsion testing...but not sure if any of this will stop the perhaps misguided EV push...

The facts are that Lithium batteries (although not toxic) are also not clean (i.e., CO2 emitting in their mining/manufacturing) and as of yet, recyling them hasn't been refined.

A new (or retrofitted) ICE, burning "green" hydrogen (e.g., made without fossil fuels and via renewable energy) would be infinitely cleaner over its lifecycle than any EV!
We'll see if anyone can pull this off in time; Volvo has made their intentions clear enough, that this is not the path that they are on...
Hydrogen is good but it’s not as far along as ev. There will be a place for hydrogen depending on trip needs. That infrastructure is even further behind ev charging.
Li batteries are already being used to store energy for homes at the end of their life cycle. They aren’t good enough to be used in a car but they are more than good enough to be used for other applications.
There’s no jury that’s out, and no misguided push. It’s already done and based on sound science. You are singling out just the battery as if an entire ice engine gets recycled. What about the extra oil that’s consumed in ice? It’s about comparing things on a like for like basis and we are no longer in the exploratory phases here, ev is better for the environment and it’s the way forward. Checkout the COP26 conference coming up for more info on what specific guidelines most nations will agree to in order to reduce emissions.
 

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I certainly hope that the charging infrastructure improves at the same rate that manufactures claim to be going all electric. If you just take short drives, charge at home and no worries. But what gives me pause about buying electric right now is more cars taking longer drives, and needing to charge at a station. I know of a tourist town that has 2 chargers total. What happens when 4 cars arrive that need to be charged? With a gas station you wait 5 minutes in line and then it’s your turn. With chargers that require you to park, plug in, and wait 15 minutes minimum (for most cars )-who wants to wait for this? It’s one thing if you find a charger, go to lunch, come back to a fully charged car. That means that that charger has been in use for much longer and therefore the next car has to put off charging even longer. We would need many more chargers and faster charging times for this to work. It only works now because the percentage of electric cars is a fraction of ICE cars.
Factor in all the trips you make to the gas station. Often once a week. Then consider for an ev that you almost never have to wait since you charge at home or at work. If once in a while you have to wait 15 minutes to charge on the road, you still come out ahead.
 
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