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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I realize my audience's pre-disposition, but value it's (semi-)informed input. <p>The condition of the market and the government's response (i.e., tax deductible interest) prompts us to consider a new car a few years before we might really need it. I had been all geared up to try to find a low mileage '06 xc90 2.5T with 7-pass seating, but now, the financials of purchasing new (plus the premium on used's) throw that into the mix.<br>So, xc90 or Flex?<p>Both offer 7-passenger. Both offer AWD. The Volvo 3.2 is similar to (though not as strong as) the Duratec v6. And then, of course, for 2010 there is the EcoBoost V6 that is stronger and more efficient than the Yamaha V8, and is reportedly no more than a $3k premium over the Duratec (perhaps as little as $700).<p>I like the styling of both, though they are very different. I have never been much a truck fan; the xc goes up to that line without crossing it for me. The Flex is the new design that will be timely for a while. It's love it or hate it; I love it. It's also less common.<p>Volvo's safety record is demonstrated. The crash test info I have seen on the Flex looks very good.<p>The Flex sits low. The XC sits high. Low is better for kids' in-and-out (we've got two). High is better for carseat buckling (we'll have one in that condition for another couple years).<p>The V8 has a longer track-record than the EcoBoost. YOu know, first model-year issues.<p>The leading complaint on the Flex (really the only one other than the styling) seems to be lack of a telescoping sterring wheel. That is reportedly coming later in the 2010 model.<p>Pricing:<br><B>XC90 FWD</B>$45,754 <br>(all pacages - Technology, Convenience, Versatility, Climate, <br>Premium - and dealer installed RSE, floormats, rear view camera, and bluetooth)<br><B>Flex SEL FWD </B>$39,130<br>(convenience & lighting package, dual headrest DVD, vista roof, rubber floormats, SYNC, personalized remote, white roof)<p>V8 vs. Ecoboost<br><B>xc90</B> $54,779 (all the same packages)<br><B>Flex </B>$42,750 approx (Flex forum links price sheet showing $36,170 for EcoBoost SEL plus same $6500 options)<p>My R has made me happy, but that has come at a price and with qualifications. Plus, there's un unquantifiable good feeling from being able to buy a <B>good </B>American-made product.<p>
 

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Test drive both. The EcoBoost is/will be a great engine and has already been slotted for the new SHO and Mustang. The Flex has been given favourable reviews both in print and on local TV coverage. It has a beautifull interior, the great sunroofs, Sync, keyless entry and will cost less to maintain.<p>Oh, and I saw a totally hot milf driving one barely an hour ago! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/eek.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emcocktl.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: XC90 or Ford Flex (pktojd)

If you like the Flex's style - go for it.<p>Latest Ford cars are good.<p>However, I am biased toward Volvo, as I would not even compare the two from the exterior style perspective.<p>
 

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Re: XC90 or Ford Flex (pktojd)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>pktojd</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Pricing:<br><B>XC90 FWD</B>$45,754 <br>(all pacages - Technology, Convenience, Versatility, Climate, <br>Premium - and dealer installed RSE, floormats, rear view camera, and bluetooth)<br><B>Flex SEL FWD </B>$39,130<br>(convenience & lighting package, dual headrest DVD, vista roof, rubber floormats, SYNC, personalized remote, white roof)<p>V8 vs. Ecoboost<br><B>xc90</B> $54,779 (all the same packages)<br><B>Flex </B>$42,750 approx (Flex forum links price sheet showing $36,170 for EcoBoost SEL plus same $6500 options)<p>My R has made me happy, but that has come at a price and with qualifications. Plus, there's un unquantifiable good feeling from being able to buy a <B>good </B>American-made product.<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>OK, question 1: Why is buying a vehicle made in Canada make you feel any better than one made in Sweden?<p>question 2: You stated msrps, but what are the actual buy amounts?<p>I can't see coming anywhere close to a pre-owned XC90 price, so I'm puzzled as to why the tax break even matters. A low mileage '06 is going to be in the low $20s.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: XC90 or Ford Flex (Qbrozen)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Qbrozen</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>OK, question 1: Why is buying a vehicle made in Canada make you feel any better than one made in Sweden?<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Had not relaized it was made there. Call that a draw, then.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Qbrozen</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">question 2: You stated msrps, but what are the actual buy amounts?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Those are the starting points. Given room for negotiation with both brands, I don't see the XC90 ever undercutting the Flex.<p><br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Qbrozen</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I can't see coming anywhere close to a pre-owned XC90 price, so I'm puzzled as to why the tax break even matters. A low mileage '06 is going to be in the low $20s. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>You missed the point. Tax break & financing leans in favor of new purchase on either brand. The comparison is new to new.
 

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Re: XC90 or Ford Flex (pktojd)

Get the Flex. If you needed an XC90 then you could not compare them. Sounds like you want a cool mini-van.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: XC90 or Ford Flex (dave_n_ruth)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>dave_n_ruth</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Get the Flex. If you needed an XC90 then you could not compare them. Sounds like you want a cool mini-van. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Well, not exactly. I want safe, effective 5+ passenger transportation. The Flex is not a minivan. Arguably closer than an XC, but neither the design nor layout nor capacity of a minivan. Whether I "need" and xc90 is sort of the point of the post. What is there that is distinct/unique/different about an xc that would make it the preferable vehicle? It costs more; does it offer something more? The purpose of the thread is to seek out considerations that might not have occurred to me from those who have chosen the xc -- why they did or why, in retrospect, they are glad that they did.
 

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Re: XC90 or Ford Flex (pktojd)

I looked at both. The flex is cool on the outside, especially the white roof. The XC90 is more cooler, especially with the V8 and various scuff plates. The flex feels low and cramped once you're inside. Dash is nice for an Amerikansy car but not up to Euro standards. The way-back totally sucks. And it's missing the best feature of the XC...the little tailgate!!!<p>The '06 V8 CPO is by far the best deal.
 

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I am not sure if it is a concern for you but i am all about the power. And the really cool part is the v8 xc90 gets great gas millage for the amount of hp that it has. I am not sure what is available in the flex but just a thought to consider.
 

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Re: (Morgan-tec)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Morgan-tec</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am not sure if it is a concern for you but i am all about the power. And the really cool part is the v8 xc90 gets great gas millage for the amount of hp that it has. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Say what? The EcoBoost V6 puts out 355 hp, trouncing the mighty V8 in the XC while giving back 24mpg highway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: (Pinstripe)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Pinstripe</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Say what? The EcoBoost V6 puts out 355 hp, trouncing the mighty V8 in the XC while giving back 24mpg highway.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Exactly. Now it is a new engine, so there may be some concern about being a guinea pig, so to speak. But I'd expect that that is the most tested part of the car. And if Ford is banking on it for the better part of their line up -- MKT, MKS, SHO, and potentially 'Stang -- I figure it's been tested even more.<p>So then is it really just a question of styling? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/confused.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: (pktojd)

Get the Flex. I am sure they have better than a (semi-)informed community to help you with any issues that come up. AKA ex-PT Cruiser aficionado's.
 

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I looked at the Flex (and others) but got the XC90.<p>Check out the 2010 Lincoln MKT. It is supposed to be on the Flex chassis but has an interesting style.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: (ski2moro)

Ski --<p>I think yours is the post I've been looking for. How did you decide to get the xc over the Flex? Flex too big? XC more driveable? I really am open to input. The xc seems like it might be unjustifiably more $, particularly given that Volvo's safety engineering went into the Flex. (Note I am not considering an Acadia/Traverse/Enclave.)<p>I'm be curious what made your decision for you. There are likely factors that I have not considered.
 

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Re: (pktojd)

I apologize that this is long, so the others might just want to skip over this. <p>I totaled my 06 Audi A4 convertible (nobody was hurt) and needed something immediately. It was my turn to drive the practical vehicle. (We take turns between fun cars and practical ones.)<p>Our needs:<br>Comfort - I’m too old to sit on cardboard seats in a Asian tin can.<br>Accessibility – An elderly relative needs to be able to get in the car. <br>Price - With a lease and a good residual value, I can get quite a lot for my money.<br>Roominess – Although I don’t need a 3rd row, I want a large cargo area for a wheelchair. <br>Trailer hitch - A wheelchair lift goes into a Class III hitch <A HREF="http://www.bruno.com/asl-250.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.bruno.com/asl-250.html</A><br>Snow worthiness – we live in snow country. <p>What we considered:<p>Flex – You either like it or you hate it. It’s very practical and roomy. I liked the Captain’s chairs and the versatility of the interior design. I didn’t like the exterior at all. It drove ok, but the one I drove had a vibration in the wheel. Ultimately, the family thought it resembles a minivan and it was vetoed. <p>Lincoln MKT - If I didn’t need to get a car right away, I might have waited for the Lincoln MKT. It has so much exterior style and is instantly recognizable as a Lincoln. It shares the roominess of the Flex without the minivan look. <p>Ford/Lincoln does not have the Service included in the price, so I have to consider that additional $$$ in the cost of the vehicle. <p>Volvo XC90 – It hasn’t changed much and it’s due for a major re-design. The Technology is old – Bluetooth, no smart keys, no push button start. I like my gadgets, but in the end, it’s a solid performer and fits our parameters. I got an amazing lease price, so it’s a really good value for the money. 5 years of service warranty will more than cover my lease term. I know how well Volvos handle in deep snow (You won’t have to worry in Nashville, but here it’s not unusual for a snow squall to drop 10 inches before I get back from Lowes.) I couldn’t find the one equipped exactly as I wanted, as it is the end of the model year and they are in short supply. I ended up with 3.2 Black on black, Premium, Climate, Versatility, Bluetooth, Sirius. Wanted BLIS, but the dealer could not locate BLIS on a dark color. I’ll get an aftermarket hitch.<p>It was the intangibles that clinched the deal. I don’t know, there is just a sense of familiarity when I get behind the wheel of the Volvo. I like the way it handles. I like the way it feels so grounded and secure. I feel safe in the XC90. I like I like the dealership and they have treated me really well over the years. The guys in the Service Department are great, although in the last 10 years, I haven’t had much contact with them. <p>Not that it made a huge difference, but my insurance quote was lower for the XC90 than the Ford.<p>The difference in price of the XC90 and the Flex was less than $20 per month, but remember that the Ford Service is not included. I consider that a wash. Volvo has some great incentives on the XC90 right now. We have X Plan, too, but it shouldn't be too hard for you to find a PIN online. <p>If you are interested, the runner-ups are:<p>Acura MDX - Nice, handled well, roomy cargo area, comfortable. All the Japanese add-ons and the cost of routine service took the cost of ownership higher than I wanted. <p>BMW X5 – The dealership really wanted to lease this car to me. I couldn’t believe the amazing low lease price ($30 per month more than the XC90) and all the technology. Small cargo space for such a big car. It was too hard for our elderly family to get in with any comfort. Too bad. It was quite a deal. <p>Toyota Highlander Limited – Not a serious contender, but I drove it. Hybrid was interesting, but the $8000 Hybrid premium wasn’t. I had questions about deep snow drivability with the low friction tires. No V-6 available in my area. Sloppy, loose steering – no road feel. <p>GM Lambdas – None except the Cadillac had an 8-way power seat on the passenger side. It wasn’t that comfortable. Won’t lease. <p><br>And then to the Audi Q5. I LOVED that car. Small cargo area, 5 passenger, but I would sacrifice the cargo area for that car. The handling was amazing. It was fun to drive. Powerful, 28 MPG. Huge sunroof. Fits me like it was built around me. Unfortunately, there wasn’t one available for weeks. I can’t be without a car that long. Highest lease price of all - no discounts due to low availability. Still, I loved that car. Sigh, maybe next time. <p><br>I chose the XC90. <p>YMMV <p>
 

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Re: (ski2moro)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>ski2moro</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>And then to the Audi Q5. I LOVED that car. Small cargo area, 5 passenger, but I would sacrifice the cargo area for that car. The handling was amazing. It was fun to drive. Powerful, 28 MPG. Huge sunroof. Fits me like it was built around me. Unfortunately, there wasn’t one available for weeks. I can’t be without a car that long. Highest lease price of all - no discounts due to low availability. Still, I loved that car. Sigh, maybe next time. <p><br>I chose the XC90. <p>YMMV <p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Congrats on the new XC90! I know what you mean that the car is "old" (it is getting up there) but it felt safe, familiar, etc. I have been driving various XC90 variants since late 2002 and I never get tired of the car; it's roomy, versatile, comfortable and I definitely feel like I am surrounded by the strongest safety cocoon out there in case something were to happen. Plus, its snow treading abilities are more than enough for any needs of such type I have had in the past 7 years.<p>I am very curious why you did not mention the XC60 in the "runner ups" section of your post; after all, you did drive the Q5 which is a very similar-sized (and priced) vehicle as the XC60. <p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: (ski2moro)

Ski --<p>Yours was a very subjective decision, like almost any car purchase. But I appreciate your taking the time to run down all of your rationale. <p>Enjoy the ride. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: (pktojd)

I looked at the XC60. It's a good looking vehicle and I loved sunroof and all the technology. I had two major complaints. <p>I got flamed the last time I said this. I didn’t like the center armrest. I'm sure there is a reason it is substantially lower than the door armrest, but I am not sure why. When my seat is comfortable for me to drive, the door armrest is fine, but the center armrest is low. Some internet jerk asked me if I drive with my nose. Somebody else told me that I wasn't supposed to drive with my arm on the armrest. Ok, but what about my 45 minute commute in bumper to bumper traffic at less than 5 MPH? Or what about the passenger? I just wanted to be comfortable in my situation. <p>The Q5 has a ratcheting adjustable center armrest - it can be out of my way or ready for my elbow in a couple of clicks. The Q5 was pure joy. I had the opportunity to drive through some S turns at high speed. Some cars just put a grin on your face and it did it for me. The Q5 had a combination of practicality AND fun for me. <p>I thought the ride of the XC60 was a bit ‘bucky’ on the short wheelbase. The cargo area was just a little small for us. It has its market and will be a great addition to the Volvo lineup, but it’s not for me. <p>I'm not a "car guy." I just want to drive it and be as trouble free as possible. I won't sacrifice safety for gas mileage. I won't sacrifice comfort for price. <p>As long as I know that when I have enough power to floor it to get out of the way of an accident (happened to me last weekend when a boat came off a trailer at 70 MPH in front of me), I really don't care about what engine I have in there. I won't mod my car and I see no point in custom wheels. That's just me. I enjoy lurking on these sites and seeing what you guys are doing, though. <br>
 

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Re: (ski2moro)

Thank you for your input.
 

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Re: (ski2moro)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>ski2moro</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> <br>I'm not a "car guy." I just want to drive it and be as trouble free as possible. I won't sacrifice safety for gas mileage. I won't sacrifice comfort for price. <br> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>My experience with VWs and Audis is that they are not trouble free. Mine always had electrical problems. Don't know if they've improved much in that department. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/frown.gif" BORDER="0">
 
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