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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The new XC90 D5 engine is listed as Euro 6 compliant. Does anybody know the exact figures (CO2, NOx, etc.)? Being a smaller engine (2l) it should have less problems in complying with Euro 6 than other diesel SUVs, however, it seems that many manufacturers may be in trouble with the real Euro 6 compliance. I have ordered a D5, because having tested them, I think it is a better engine in term of overall performance that the T6 (the D5 has more torque at low RPMs and is less noisy at cruise). However, I am now hesitating after the VW diesel scandal, also thinking about the resale value. Any thoughts?
 

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First of all. ‘Dieselgate’ is all about deliberate cheating via software. IMHO it’s a crime and giving VW/Audi an illegal commercial benefit. Unfortunately ‘Dieselgate’ has popped-up motor vehicle pollution on hot-news level, so any ecological or political party will try to use it to bring their statements top-of-mind. The effect is a lot of fuss about pollution, not always even right.

The answer is dependent on the area you live, but D5 is Europe only. In the EU all pollution requirements, and conformation tests, are done within laboratories by the NEDC test cycle, originated in 1970 (!) and last revised in 1990. The outcome is a laboratory pollution-level which differentiates heavily from daily driving.
The EU already decided to exchange these test for real-world driving tests, better known as Worldwide harmonized Light vehicles Test Procedures (WLTP). It is mandated in the EU that WLTP will replace NEDC in 2017.
In the actual press you see a lot of remarks for example Volvo engines don’t comply in real-world testing. Unfortunately that comparison is not valid, because these engines comply to NEDC instead of WLTP. Secondly they compare the result of measurements of 1 or 2 cars, with official homologation figures. That’s neither official nor scientific proof.

In all cases Volvo engines apply to the actual required emission levels.
2016 XC90 D5 - Co2 = 152 gr/km, Nox < 80 gr/km
 

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The new XC90 D5 engine is listed as Euro 6 compliant. Does anybody know the exact figures (CO2, NOx, etc.)? Being a smaller engine (2l) it should have less problems in complying with Euro 6 than other diesel SUVs,
The size of the engine has absolutely nothing to do with passing Euro 6 emissions. The VW engine failed because VW made unrealistic claims re: performance vs mileage vs emissions and cheated its way through certification.

However, I am now hesitating after the VW diesel scandal, also thinking about the resale value. Any thoughts?
I can certainly understand why you feel that way; I would probably feel the same; however, resale value on other brands' diesel models should not be affected, it could as well go up if the VW problems persist and/or are expanded to the rest of their diesel line up.
 

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I think the OP has a valid point, in that given vw had to cheat to meet emission standards in the U.S., people in the U.S. will think diesel is so bad it can't be dealt with any other way. Headlines have a funny way of tainting peoples thoughts in ways the actual data of the story can't mend.
 

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I think the OP has a valid point, in that given vw had to cheat to meet emission standards in the U.S., people in the U.S. will think diesel is so bad it can't be dealt with any other way. Headlines have a funny way of tainting peoples thoughts in ways the actual data of the story can't mend.
The OP is not in the U.S.
 

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...d-Hyundai-could-all-fail-future-EU-tests.html


Volvo said in a statement: “Analysis shows that a faulty car was used for this test; a correct Volvo would never have generated these results. The same agency tested several normal Volvos previously, using similar methods, generating normal results. We have investigated this incident further and discovered that the car’s emission control system was out of order.”
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the useful replies. I am in Europe and it seems that the VW scandal is now being used against Diesel, while the same problem may exist with petrol. I think that I will keep my D5 option as I am told that changing to T6 would mean moving delivery of the car from end November to March! In any event I choose the D5 because I preferred the engine performance, not because of the fuel economy or tax regime. I only worry about the resale value. For those in the US, I think that also the T6 is a great engine and I hesitated a lot between the two. In my view, the current emission scandal suggests that Volvo was right in going for 2l 4 cylinder engines even for such a big car.
 

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If the Volvo diesels didn't cheat, this scandal will INCREASE the value.

All those who bought VW diesels will be standing in line to buy compliant diesels, IMO. Their desire for fuel efficiency will not simply evaporate.

That's another real crime of what VW did. VW stole sales from other companies with this illegal behavior.
 

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I can certainly understand why you feel that way; I would probably feel the same; however, resale value on other brands' diesel models should not be affected, it could as well go up if the VW problems persist and/or are expanded to the rest of their diesel line up.
I think it's way too soon to draw that conclusion. The idea that other brands diesel engines will not have negatively impacted resale value is rooted in the assumption that consumer perception of diesel overall will not be affected and that demand will not be hurt. That's not a safe assumption yet. As it stands, the investor market is skeptical. They have shorted almost every company with a substantial stake in diesel engines for consumer cars, whether they had anything to do with VW or not. If the VW scandal creates an overall bad reputation for diesel then other brands diesel cars could be negatively affected too. And it doesn't take much to affect resale values. The last time gas was over $4 per galloon in the US, resale values of used SUV's plummeted. When gas prices went down, they went up. That was crazy short-term thinking but markets aren't terribly rational in general.
 

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If the Volvo diesels didn't cheat, this scandal will INCREASE the value.

All those who bought VW diesels will be standing in line to buy compliant diesels, IMO. Their desire for fuel efficiency will not simply evaporate.

That's another real crime of what VW did. VW stole sales from other companies with this illegal behavior.
Again, that logic is based on the assumption of a fixed demand for diesel overall. If demand is fixed and one brands cars are deemed to be undesirable, the supply of diesel options decreases which increases the value against fixed demand. But if overall demand for diesel is negatively impacted, then even a reduced supply of diesel option might not result in a higher value for them. Until you can forecast the impact on demand, you cannot predict the impact on value.
 

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I was willing to get a diesel version of xc90, but they don't sell in us.....


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+1

I too wish Volvo would bring back diesel. On our last TDS I spoke with a marketing manager at the FDC an he had mentioned the reason they don't offer diesel in the US is that it's considered as a "truck driver" fuel typically found at dirty gas stations and not widely available at driver friendly gas stations. It was an interesting perspective and perhaps dated.

Although now thanks to VW Volvo will likely never bring it to the US, especially considering that it is starting to achieve like performance and efficiency with better emissions results using its new DrivE power plants and of course it's push towards electrification.
 

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+1

I too wish Volvo would bring back diesel. On our last TDS I spoke with a marketing manager at the FDC an he had mentioned the reason they don't offer diesel in the US is that it's considered as a "truck driver" fuel typically found at dirty gas stations and not widely available at driver friendly gas stations. It was an interesting perspective and perhaps dated.
Yes, that person did not know what he was talking about.
 

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Statement released by Volvo today:
“Volvo Cars never has and never will fit any device to its cars that manipulates emission test results. Volvo engines have the same settings no matter whether they are being tested or in everyday use.
Furthermore, every car launched by Volvo carries a certificate that attests to this fact. No Volvo car is launched without this certificate.
Volvo Cars believes the current testing regime for emission by diesel cars provides an industry standard that allows comparisons to be made between cars.
That said, in partnership with the rest of the automotive industry, Volvo is working towards the design and implementation of new emission tests that better reflect everyday driving conditions.
Volvo welcomes moves to design Worldwide Harmonised Light vehicles Test Procedures and will contribute in every way it can to ensure their successful introduction.”
 

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Statement released by Volvo today:
“Volvo Cars never has and never will fit any device to its cars that manipulates emission test results. Volvo engines have the same settings no matter whether they are being tested or in everyday use.
Furthermore, every car launched by Volvo carries a certificate that attests to this fact. No Volvo car is launched without this certificate.
Volvo Cars believes the current testing regime for emission by diesel cars provides an industry standard that allows comparisons to be made between cars.
That said, in partnership with the rest of the automotive industry, Volvo is working towards the design and implementation of new emission tests that better reflect everyday driving conditions.
Volvo welcomes moves to design Worldwide Harmonised Light vehicles Test Procedures and will contribute in every way it can to ensure their successful introduction.”
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
 

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Statement released by Volvo today:
“Volvo Cars never has and never will fit any device to its cars that manipulates emission test results. Volvo engines have the same settings no matter whether they are being tested or in everyday use.
Furthermore, every car launched by Volvo carries a certificate that attests to this fact. No Volvo car is launched without this certificate.
Volvo Cars believes the current testing regime for emission by diesel cars provides an industry standard that allows comparisons to be made between cars.
That said, in partnership with the rest of the automotive industry, Volvo is working towards the design and implementation of new emission tests that better reflect everyday driving conditions.
Volvo welcomes moves to design Worldwide Harmonised Light vehicles Test Procedures and will contribute in every way it can to ensure their successful introduction.”
So good to read this commitment! Coming from Volvo it means something - after all Volvo invented several emissions control technologies including some of the tech behind LambdaSond which is now essentially in all cars (the tech behind O2 sensors).

Thanks Chris!!!

Speaking of which, one that I recall in the early 2000 was the Ozone transforming coating used in the radiators of S80s to reduce Ozone emitted from vehicles as it was drive through traffic. Did that ever get taken to all models or was that killed off by Ford? I forgot its name but it seemed like another cool feature.
 

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after all Volvo invented several emissions control technologies including some of the tech behind LambdaSond which is now essentially in all cars (the tech behind O2 sensors).
Correct. Volvo and a company called Engelhard put together, in the '70s, the technology that started the 3-way catalytic converters and is being used today.

Speaking of which, one that I recall in the early 2000 was the Ozone transforming coating used in the radiators of S80s to reduce Ozone emitted from vehicles as it was drive through traffic. Did that ever get taken to all models or was that killed off by Ford? I forgot its name but it seemed like another cool feature.
It was called PremAir; it was a catalyst coating applied to the exterior of the radiator and reduced up to 70% of ground level ozone molecules, when the car was moving.

I do not believe this is in existence today.
 

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Statement released by Volvo today:
“Volvo Cars never has and never will fit any device to its cars that manipulates emission test results. Volvo engines have the same settings no matter whether they are being tested or in everyday use.
Furthermore, every car launched by Volvo carries a certificate that attests to this fact. No Volvo car is launched without this certificate.
Volvo Cars believes the current testing regime for emission by diesel cars provides an industry standard that allows comparisons to be made between cars.
That said, in partnership with the rest of the automotive industry, Volvo is working towards the design and implementation of new emission tests that better reflect everyday driving conditions.
Volvo welcomes moves to design Worldwide Harmonised Light vehicles Test Procedures and will contribute in every way it can to ensure their successful introduction.”

So lets break this PR statement down.

1) Volvo does not use software to cheat=Thats good. Hopefully it doesnt mean something else...like thank god no one caught us
2) Certificate=? Whats certificate, same one VW got for their vehicles or something else
3) Volvo believes etc=We design cars to meet international automotive standards, however crappy those standards are.
4) We also believe that their is a better way=Not really, but moving forward to help appease the masses we will support it.

Anyways this scandal puts the spotlight on a lot of things and exposes a lot of dirt:

1) The past decade in which the European brands have sought to bring back a new cleaner image for diesel has just gone up in smoke. Expect depreciation to hit harder on all D model
2) The biggest carmaker in the world has shown that even it needs to fudge numbers to keep the lights on
3) The flawed system in which governmental agencies run emission tests most likely have gotten a kick in their pants that was needed. For instance the disparity amongst real world testing vs instrument testing is kind of revealed. (some automakers love to test their cars with accessories removed that would normally be carried such as a spare tire or anything more then 2 gallons of gas).
4) Expect more rebates from the diesel market similar to when they first made their market push (again) a decade ago.

I dont think a D5 diesel is coming stateside anytime soon, nor even ever with the recent scandal. But regardless of that, Volvo has played it safe and I dont think theyre gonna be effected stateside at least with the diesel scandal as their offerings use e+gas so all good
 
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