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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone one this forum experienced this problem on their XC90? There is a year long thread on the S40V50 forum, and this has started to happen to our XC90 this week. Basically, after turning the key, car stutters to 400 RPM or so for a couple seconds, then dies. Upon restart it works fine. The synptom is only shown after sitting over night.<p>The car has 33000miles, and until this week, it never happened. Brought it to the dealer after parking the car over night at the dealer such that I could demonstrate the problem to the technician. His first inlcination was an ECM update (TNN155, I believe he indicated - part number on the invoice was 30677021), but that did not solve the problem. I will be bringing it back again Monday - but I am curious if anyone has seen this on an XC90.<p><br><i>Modified by ncearthquake at 2:57 PM 6-17-2006</i><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by ncearthquake at 5:49 PM 6-19-2006</i>
 

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Re: XC90 2.5T Start...Shudder...Stall...Re-Start...Runs OK...No CEL (ncearthquake)

Sorry to bring this one back - it seems from the silence that this may be a unique problem on the XC90. To add a bit more information - the car was in the shop for several days (monday-Thursday), and no problem was identified. In fact, it didn't have the problem while there, although the technician did witness the problem once with me. Of course when we picked it up , the next morning it was back. Also, for the first time it happened towards the end of the day. On this particular day, it rained a good deal and there was a good bit of steam coming up from the road. <p>It seems that the car must be driven, then parked for some time, for this starting problem to show up. This would explain why it did not exhibit the problem at the dealer as it simply sat all day and night, and then was started the following day. To me, it appears to be identical to the S40/V50 problems which the Volvo technician acknowledged was a problem with several cars. For the S40/V50 it was fixed with software. I will be going back next week again - if anyone has any suggestions, they would be most appreciated.<p>
 

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Re: XC90 2.5T Start...Shudder...Stall...Re-Start...Runs OK...No CEL (ncearthquake)

It may be a red herring, but a while back, my car stalled in traffic. It was pretty scary for a moment, but the car started again at the second try. Eventually, my dealer tracked it down to a cracked exhaust hose.<p>And just last week, I had another hose replaced (this time, an intake hose) because of a hairline crack that caused some really weird harsh noises when the car was started in the morning but would quiet down after a few minutes of running. The tech said that as the hose warmed up, the crack "sealed" itself (due to expansion) and that's why the noise stopped after a while.<p>May be you have a pipe with a hairline crack somewhere?<br>
 

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Re: XC90 2.5T Start...Shudder...Stall...Re-Start...Runs OK...No CEL (ncearthquake)

I've had this happen. Like you my XC is a 2004 and it just started. I'm not sure if this is related, but if I stand for any time with the radio on (say 5 minutes I also get the battery low warning. I haven't had a chance to check this out, but the two may be related. <p>I need to check, but I think I've got about 33k on the clock too.
 

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Re: XC90 2.5T Start...Shudder...Stall...Re-Start...Runs OK...No CEL (Oulainen)

Oulainen,<p>I am "happy" to not be the only one - I do not believe your two problems are related - you may want to look at the long thread on the S40-V50 forum describing it, or at least the last 20 or so posts. It took me over 90 minutes to read the year long thread, however, in summary, it took Volvo one year to prepare the software upgrade from the time the problem was reported. This seems to have fixed the problem on that car. <p>I am hoping that it will be much faster with the XC90 as it greatly devalues the vehicle if it stalls on the first start after sitting for some time after being driven. This should not happen on any modern car. I am hoping that our local dealer and regional represenative will be able to get this sorted out quickly. Unfortunately, the suggestions that were given to me by the dealer technician were the same as those given to folks on the S40 forum at the beginning of the problems with those cars - i.e. use lower octane gas. That is not a solution - I always use 93 octane, and will continue to do so. Also, none of the early ideas that were posted on the S40 thread work - in the end it was a software issue with that car, and I must believe it is the same on the XC90 - I am just surprised that more people have not had this happen who are on this forum. It is also a bit strange that it took 33,000 miels to appear. It seems to have happened to the S40 much earlier in the car's life. <p>
 

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Re: XC90 2.5T Start...Shudder...Stall...Re-Start...Runs OK...No CEL (ncearthquake)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>ncearthquake</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oulainen,<br>I am just surprised that more people have not had this happen who are on this forum. It is also a bit strange that it took 33,000 miels to appear.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yeah, been happening here too - about every month or so. Interestingly, started when reduced engine cranking speed was first noticed. Been wanting to start a poll to see when batteries are getting replaced.
 

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Re: XC90 2.5T Start...Shudder...Stall...Re-Start...Runs OK...No CEL (ncearthquake)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>ncearthquake</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Has anyone one this forum experienced this problem on their XC90? Basically, after turning the key, car stutters to 400 RPM or so for a couple seconds, then dies. Upon restart it works fine. The synptom is only shown after sitting over night.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Our XC has been running rough for a few seconds after every cold (overnight) start. Clears right up and never does it when warm. Almost like a carbureted engine with a malfunctioning choke. 21k miles - going to have it looked at during the routine service that's coming up.<br>
 

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Re: XC90 2.5T Start...Shudder...Stall...Re-Start...Runs OK...No CEL (Tao)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Tao</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Yeah, been happening here too - about every month or so. Interestingly, started when reduced engine cranking speed was first noticed. Been wanting to start a poll to see when batteries are getting replaced.</TD></TR></TABLE><p><br>Why dont you just test your battery? What if the poll says that they last longer than yours did. Wont make any difference if it still needs to be replaced. Get at $1.50 hydrometer and let that decide. Then test the charge voltage, if the charge voltage is good (around 14.1V) and the battery is low then the battery may need to be replaced. First charge it with a good charger, you may just be driving short trips and not allowing the battery to fully charge.<p>
 

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Re: XC90 2.5T Start...Shudder...Stall...Re-Start...Runs OK...No CEL (calridng)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>calridng</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> you may just be driving short trips and not allowing the battery to fully charge. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yep, been doing that. Seems batteries nowadays go around year four. For those living on the edge, battery test suggestion is a good idea <A HREF="http://autorepair.about.com/library/weekly/aa101604a.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://autorepair.about.com/li...a.htm</A>. As for me, think I'll drop in an OEM this fall. <br>
 

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Re: XC90 2.5T Start...Shudder...Stall...Re-Start...Runs OK...No CEL (Tao)

The car I personally drive is a '99 Mercedes C230. When left overnight I would have almost the same problem. With my car the fuel line would lose pressure and get air in the line. The fuel would slowly leak back down into the tank because of a bad valve. On a cold start it would seem like it was choking. I ended up with a new fuel pump. Does this seem like the same problem as with your XC90's? Also, when I brought my car in, there were no codes whatsoever, making the problem even more odd.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: XC90 2.5T Start...Shudder...Stall...Re-Start...Runs OK...No CEL (XC90 Black Saphire)

Thanks for the suggestion - our technician also suspected that the fuel pump may be a concern - he checked pressure overnight and it didn't drop, so he ruled that out as an option. In my case, the battery is not the problem as every start past the first one after the car sits for some time is a 'strong start'.<p>As part of my troubleshooting, I got the gas remaining in the tank down to about 1 gallon and switched to another brand. Since the fill Saturday evening, we have had two normal starts - try number three will be Monday morning. I will monitor the situation to see if there is a pattern related to the amount of fuel in the tank (or perhaps fuel brand, but that seems to be a long shot to me). Until this morning, it has 100% repeatable since it first occurred if: (1) The car is driven for about 10 or more miles and (2) sits for some time (more than 8 hours). Time will tell if there is a third variable.
 

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Re: XC90 2.5T Start...Shudder...Stall...Re-Start...Runs OK...No CEL (ncearthquake)

This just started happening on our 2004 V70 with 76K. It will start, shutter, die and then restarting works perfectly? Seems to be after it has been sitting overnight, but it is very inconsistent?<p>Any ideas - is the system similar to the XC90 or S40/V50?
 

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Re: XC90 2.5T Start...Shudder...Stall...Re-Start...Runs OK...No CEL (kasumi)

Weird.<p>I just noticed the same thing the last week or so. Ours is at about 55k.
 

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Re: XC90 2.5T Start...Shudder...Stall...Re-Start...Runs OK...No CEL (1sttimevolvo)

This issue, on the S40/V50 where it is very common, is related to the fuel's vapor pressure and the car's ability to adapt to its seasonal range. The problem vanishes in the winter, when temperatures are lower and fuel is delivered in "winter formula", which is somewhat more volatile. As soon as May rolls around and the summer formula hits the pipelines, the reports come back.<p>I suspect the introduction of <B>ethanol-formula </B>fuels (non-MTBE oxygenates) is begining to affect other models. In my V50, I never experienced the problem at all before this year, but now it happens to me several times a week. Same fuel, same brand, different formula.<p>Therefore, I would not be surprised at all to see this fix applied to the P2 models. A word of warning however, because it affects emissions certification, it needs to go through the EPA. It took Volvo months to do this for our P1 cars. Hopefully, there will be some ability to cross over the necessary testing to be certified more readily.<p>Personally, I view this as a minor issue btw. Others feel differently.<p>Tom.
 

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Re: XC90 2.5T Start...Shudder...Stall...Re-Start...Runs OK...No CEL (TomW)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>TomW</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Our XC has been running rough for a few seconds after every cold (overnight) start. Clears right up and never does it when warm. Almost like a carbureted engine with a malfunctioning choke. 21k miles - going to have it looked at during the routine service that's coming up.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Dealer noted the stutter but no codes thrown, so as far as they're concerned there is no problem. They also tried to blame it on the poly upper mount bushing... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/sly.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Still does it, but clears right up, and I have no doubt that the wife (who drives the car 99% of the time) has no clue what is happening or cares, so I'll leave it for now. At minimum it's noted on the vehicle service record in case something else happens in the future.<br>
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: XC90 2.5T Start...Shudder...Stall...Re-Start...Runs OK...No CEL (TomW)

It is interesting that this thread has been brought back today, as this happens to be the day that the technician and regional rep managed to work out a fix for our XC90. As it turns out, the 2003/2004 XC90 has a two section fuel tank with one fuel pump on one side of the tank. From 2005 on, there is a pump on each side as I understand. On the 2003/2004 models, there is a tube that runs from one side of the tank to the fuel pump on the other side of the tank. After a month of trying different things (replacing fuel pump, among other items), the technician noticed that overnight, vacuum pressure in the tube would draw fuel out from the side of the tank with the fuel pump into the other side, where there was no fuel pump. As a result, on the first start of the day, the car stalls as the pump is 'dry'. On starts 2 and on, no problem. The solution, applied yesterday, was to drill a small hole in the tube that connects one side of the tank to the other side of the tank, thus relieveing the vacuum pressure. This is all internal to the fuel tank, so the hole in the tube is not of any concern. As of this morning, the car is fine. It was very consistent, so that fact that it started this morning without a problem leads me to believe they have solved the problem. This is very different than the fix applied to the S40 which appears to be software related. Now, why this shows up after 30k miles is a mystery, of course. Weather other cars have similar tank arrangements, I do not know.<p>I have a digital vidoe of our stalling problem, and if others our interested and know of a an easy way to post video, I'd be happy to do so. It may be of help in comparing respective starting problems and the solution applied in our case.<p>Also, our dealer, Weaver Brothers, was very much on top of things and was very responsive to this problem - the technician was intent on sorting it all out, and it appears that they have. The fact that no code was thrown was irrelevant to them as they clearly saw that there was a problem. A new car should not stall on every first attempt of the day!
 
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