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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Shopping for winter tires, thinking of going with a 17 inch Blizzak wheel/tire package from TireRack. Curious if you guy have any feedback on how annoying it will be if I skip out on the TPMS. Is it just going to illuminate a light on the dash full time? I searched around my menus and don't see anyway to disable it though them. I'd personally be willing to pocket the $300 it costs to include the TPMS if it just means putting up with a dash light.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Been lurking around with the search function and didn't see an answer.....maybe I missed it??
 

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No big deal, but if you are in US, which I assume you are because you say you can't disable TPMS from the menu, any retailer (online or otherwise) and any installer is required by law to provide and install TPMS. Most, naturally, value their good relationship w/ US law enforcement much more than your $300, so you know how it will end.
 

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No big deal, but if you are in US, which I assume you are because you say you can't disable TPMS from the menu, any retailer (online or otherwise) and any installer is required by law to provide and install TPMS. Most, naturally, value their good relationship w/ US law enforcement much more than your $300, so you know how it will end.
I dont believe this is true. I, and others, have ordered wheels without TPMS from TireRack and other shops. According to the NHTSA, the TPMS MIL is enough to alert the driver to check the tires manually, and as long as the shop did knowingly disable TPMS or knowingly (which they state is near impossible to know) install incompatabile tires, there is no liability to the consumer or shop, see below:



Finally, we would address NADA�s comments regarding the legal implications for aftermarket installers and vehicle repair businesses who either install aftermarket tires or rims on the vehicle or who service the TPMS. We would begin by noting that the TPMS standard is not the first to require a malfunction indicator. Malfunction indicators are also required under FMVSS No. 105, Hydraulic and Electric Brake Systems, and FMVSS No. 121, Air Brake Systems, and a "readiness indicator" is required under FMVSS No. 208, Occupant Crash Protection. Such malfunction indicators are generally favored because they provide important information to consumers, as well as to businesses with an interest in vehicle system operations.

Under 49 U.S.C. 30122(b), "A manufacturer, distributor, dealer, or motor vehicle repair business may not knowingly make inoperative any part of a device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment in compliance with an applicable motor vehicle safety standard prescribed under this chapter [49 USC �� 30101 et seq. ] unless the manufacturer, distributor, dealer, or repair business reasonably believes the vehicle or equipment will not be used (except for testing or a similar purpose during maintenance or repair) when the device or element is inoperative. "� As a general matter, malfunction indicators can alert consumers when one of the above entities has made a vehicle modification that has rendered a functioning system inoperative. In such instances, the business presumably took such action inadvertently and would remedy the situation accordingly once the malfunction indicator is triggered. [38]�This principle is important, because such modifications may: (1) make the monitored system itself incapable of functioning; (2) have an appreciable impact on vehicle safety, and (3) be relatively difficult for the consumer to remedy.

However, the situation surrounding the TPMS malfunction indicator represents a special case. First, the TPMS itself is analogous to a malfunction indicator, because the low tire pressure telltale would only be expected to illuminate if the driver has failed to perform routine tire maintenance or if a tire has developed a leak. Therefore, the TPMS MIL is one step removed, essentially being a malfunction indicator for a malfunction indicator. In any event, even if the TPMS back-up system were not available, the driver could (and should) manually check his vehicle�s tire inflation pressure on a regular basis.

In situations where the TPMS MIL is detecting aftermarket or replacement tires or rims that prevent the continued proper functioning of the TPMS, such equipment arguably has not damaged the TPMS itself, but instead has hindered its low tire pressure detection capability. (Arguably, the tires themselves meet the requirements of the relevant FMVSSs related to tires and would be suitable for safe vehicle operation, absent the TPMS problem.)� Once the TPMS MIL illuminates, the consumer would be warned that the equipment has caused a TPMS malfunction, and the consumer could substitute other equipment that would permit the TPMS to resume normal functioning.

As noted previously, vehicle manufacturers, tire manufacturers, and other businesses may not know, or reasonably be able to know, exactly which of the many aftermarket or replacement tire and rims would prevent the TPMS from continuing to function properly. There are many tire and rim choices for a given vehicle, and a variety of businesses are involved in tire and rim installation and repair. In such cases, these businesses may only come to know of a problem once the TPMS MIL illuminates. Furthermore, because some TPMSs must be driven for a period of time in order to detect a malfunction, it is quite possible that the consumer would have driven away from such business before the MIL illuminates.

After the time of first sale, our primary goal for the TPMS MIL is to provide information and a warning to the consumer in order to ensure long-term operability of the TPMS. In the tire-related situations described above, the TPMS MIL has arguably served its purpose; the consumer has been warned of the compatibility problem, and the consumer and the installer are able to work together to resolve that problem. The intention is not to penalize the business for accidentally installing one of a very small number of incompatible replacement tires that are difficult to identify.

We note that this result might be different where it can be shown that the installer knew of the incompatibility beforehand or took some other action to disable a functioning TPMS unit. In addition, we would point out that we believe that the TPMS MIL represents a unique case, and the above discussion does not alter our approach to malfunction indicators generally or to the other specific malfunction indicators referenced above.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/tpmsfinalrule.6/tpmsfinalrule.6.html


OP: its just a silly light, which you get used too in about a week. Save yourself the money.
 

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Ha. I'm not a lawyer, but if I were to run a gas station repair shop or similar, I would try to avoid anything that requires legal interpretation... Where it says that "the consumer and the installer are able to work together to resolve the problem" seems to imply that it would be my duty as an installer to rectify the situation.

I can see how one can call tire rack and tell them that one already had a set of tpms sensors on hand... I think that short of Tony-the-cousin-who-runs-a-chop-shop, it would be hard to find an installer who is ready to deal with potential legal implications...

Leaving that aside, not sure if one can even pass dmv inspection with TPMS on...
 

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Ha. I'm not a lawyer, but if I were to run a gas station repair shop or similar, I would try to avoid anything that requires legal interpretation... Where it says that "the consumer and the installer are able to work together to resolve the problem" seems to imply that it would be my duty as an installer to rectify the situation.

I can see how one can call tire rack and tell them that one already had a set of tpms sensors on hand... I think that short of Tony-the-cousin-who-runs-a-chop-shop, it would be hard to find an installer who is ready to deal with potential legal implications...

Leaving that aside, not sure if one can even pass dmv inspection with TPMS on...
Haha! Since I assume you live in NJ by your username, I can tell you a few that will. Even the shop would have no liability, since they would inform you that the light is on, and if you choose to do nothing about it, thats on you, or they could claim the light wasnt on when you left since some cars take a many miles to illuminate. Too much gray area for legal action here. And if you get pulled over, is the cop going to dismount your tire to see if the sensor is there, or assume the tire is low and you havent filled it?

I agree about state inspection, but if OP needs an inspection, he can take an hour and swap the stock wheels back on and then off, or find a shop willing to not notice it, like I used to do in NJ with 5% tint all around.
 

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I am sure a few will. Especially in NJ :)
Cop probably couldn't care less, but if the goal is to make it as memorable an encounter as possible, one can get a fix-it ticket or something.

As a shop owner, I would be afraid of someone getting into an accident, hiring a lawyer (him/her or the other party) and then arguing that by agreeing to bypass the safety system installer -- being a professional service provider with a license -- effectively confirmed that it's ok to run like this, and now look what happened and somebody died, and therefore go get the shop, or at least shop's license...
 

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Isn't it amazing that we as a human race survived driving WITHOUT TPMS in our cars for 100 years!?!?

Personally I hate TPMS and wish it wasn't mandated. It makes getting new wheels and tires a pain, and every time there is a large temperature swing the damn things go off. I bet dealerships love them though, having way more people come in for service...
 

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I am sure a few will. Especially in NJ :)
Cop probably couldn't care less, but if the goal is to make it as memorable an encounter as possible, one can get a fix-it ticket or something.

As a shop owner, I would be afraid of someone getting into an accident, hiring a lawyer (him/her or the other party) and then arguing that by agreeing to bypass the safety system installer -- being a professional service provider with a license -- effectively confirmed that it's ok to run like this, and now look what happened and somebody died, and therefore go get the shop, or at least shop's license...
Thats why most shops have a liability release form. I cant count how many times I have been in different shops and a customer has brakes that are a hazard to themselves and everyone, and they refuse the repair. All of the shops have a form that makes the customer acknowlegde the problem, and release them of liability in case of an issue. In the case of the OP ordering from TireRack, the shop would have no way of knowing if the sensors were in wheel or not, since they didnt assemble the package.
 

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Isn't it amazing that we as a human race survived driving WITHOUT TPMS in our cars for 100 years!?!?

Personally I hate TPMS and wish it wasn't mandated. It makes getting new wheels and tires a pain, and every time there is a large temperature swing the damn things go off. I bet dealerships love them though, having way more people come in for service...

+1. Add dipsticks to the list as well. They only worked perfectly since the dawn of the automobile, but lets eliminate them in favor of an electronic sensor.
 

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For what it's worth, I just bought a 17" winter wheel/tire package from Tire Rack (delivered yesterday). Anzio Vision wheels and General Altimax Arctic tires. During check out you have three options: install package with TPMS for $320, install under the assumption you'll have TPMS installed after you get them (it should just say "wink wink" here) and don't assemble wheels and tires. However there are a few wheels (like Sport Edition) that remove the middle option because they will only take Tire Rack, not factory, TPMS.

All in all the 17" package shipped was a couple hundred cheaper than 19" winter tires (plus mounting, etc) for my Bor wheels. No brainer and I can deal with the light.
 

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I for one, don't really mind the TMPS. Since mandated, I seldom if ever do regular pressure tests unless alerted by TPMS. As we all know, improper inflation can lead to less, MPG, premature tire wear and a host of other things. (just ask Tom Brady!) Temperature swings though, as noted above are a pain in the neck.
Electronic dipstick on the other hand is just bad. Especially with all the horror stories about inaccurate readings leading to overfill/underfill.
 

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Rant warning.
What's amazing is that most of you had no problem paying a few grand for a luxury sedan/wagon but are willing to live with a warning light over $300...

The list of things we lived without can be extended far beyond TPMS and dipstick. Fuel injection, choke (did you remember to pull it out just so when you were starting your S60 up today morning?). Drum brakes with asbestos pads, those were the thing too. Did any of you do valve adjustment on your engine yet?

The list goes on. With the rest of you I spend embarrassing amount of time browsing BaT and longing for the simplicity of cars that are about my age or a tad older... But I don't miss any of the "charming idiosyncrasies" my first car had (a fiat 600 derivative if you must know).
 

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I'm not sure why that's amazing (or relevant). If it's not a concern to someone why are you letting it bother you?
In my opinion it's a foolish, useless, trouble plagued invention that serves no purpose for anyone who knows how to take care of a car. "Charming idiosyncrasies"? - this is one. All of the things you mentioned (fuel injection, disc brakes) are significant improvements on what was available. $300 so I can have aftermarket sensors that I don't really need and may be a bigger headache working with the car than is necessary? No thanks. I'll add on top of that a set of four OEM sensors at Volvo of Lisle is $230.
Is Canada wrong because they have the option in SENUS to turn off the TPMS monitor? Should we recall all 2007 and prior cars because one of their tires is 5psi low? Should I not be allowed to pay for amazing seats, great fuel economy and good performance but save $300 on a purchase because my wife makes me live in this place of over taxation and 5 months of unbearable weather?
 

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I'd also add that I'm willing to put up with the following lights that I also activate myself: rain sensing wipers, DTSC sport, ECO, etc.

Again, not sure why you're concerning yourself with others finances when the decision has no bearing on you.
 

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Rant warning.
What's amazing is that most of you had no problem paying a few grand for a luxury sedan/wagon but are willing to live with a warning light over $300...

The list of things we lived without can be extended far beyond TPMS and dipstick. Fuel injection, choke (did you remember to pull it out just so when you were starting your S60 up today morning?). Drum brakes with asbestos pads, those were the thing too. Did any of you do valve adjustment on your engine yet?

The list goes on. With the rest of you I spend embarrassing amount of time browsing BaT and longing for the simplicity of cars that are about my age or a tad older... But I don't miss any of the "charming idiosyncrasies" my first car had (a fiat 600 derivative if you must know).
It is more that I don't like paying extra for features that inconvenience me.
 

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I don't think I said that it bothers me. But what I said clearly bothers you. So I apologize, as it clearly wasn't my intention to start a flamefest.

I don't give a dead rat's tail about what lights are on in your car, honestly. My summer wheels are 19" and I run expensive tires. My winter wheels are 18" and the tires are marginally cheaper. So I'd like to have an early warning if we picked up a nail.

We had low profile tires on various cars for years and an untold number of times my wife would call me at work and tell me that she thinks one of the tires is low... And I would get home and drive to a gas station and confirm that the tires are indeed ok (or not). And the utility of not having to do that several times a year certainly is worth $300 to me. Yes, I can also measure the pressure with the gauge in the car, no I don't expect my wife to do the same.

Back a few years when TPMS wasn't mandatory, guys with decent wheels and tires would pay a chunk for an aftermarket system and I was considering the same, so from that point of view TPMS does the same thing I'd do. Volvo sensors from Tasca were like 72 a pop when I ordered, so not sure why it's more expensive for you...

None of that helps OP with his question, which, I think has been answered in the most direct way and in the less wink-wink direct way, so hopefully we are done here.
 

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Rant warning.
What's amazing is that most of you had no problem paying a few grand for a luxury sedan/wagon but are willing to live with a warning light over $300...

The list of things we lived without can be extended far beyond TPMS and dipstick. Fuel injection, choke (did you remember to pull it out just so when you were starting your S60 up today morning?). Drum brakes with asbestos pads, those were the thing too. Did any of you do valve adjustment on your engine yet?

The list goes on. With the rest of you I spend embarrassing amount of time browsing BaT and longing for the simplicity of cars that are about my age or a tad older... But I don't miss any of the "charming idiosyncrasies" my first car had (a fiat 600 derivative if you must know).
My problem is that the few grand I spent for a luxury car (or any car for that matter) could have been less without this government mandated nanny system, so any place I can save a few bucks is fine by me. I find it to be useless on most cars, since it often doesnt tell me a tire is low until its very low, like 5psi or more. On my Traverse it tells you which tire is low, but thats only accurate if the system was updated after a tire rotation, which it never is because its too complicated. When it says RF low, it could be the RR now, and your left guessing. Or someone who doesnt know better overfills a tire because the system says its one tire, but that system is wrong.
 
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