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In retrospect, it makes Volvo's decision to pursue electrification vs. diesel, a genius one...;)
 

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There's a difference between discrepancies shown on lab based emissions tests verses road based (so called 'real world') emissions tests. Typically, these vary due to the different drivecycle of the legislation compared to the on-road test.

A key thing with VW's behaviour is that when the vehicle detected it was undergoing a legislative emissions test, it ran a specific engine calibration just for this test. On road and even if you accessed exactly the same drivecycle (but didn't do anything to inform the vehicle it was undergoing an emissions test) then it would run the standard non-special calibration and thus produced more emissions. So that's why they are in trouble.

For a non-dodgy OEM approach, no matter if you did something to inform the vehicle or not, if you accessed the operating points of the legislative drivecycle then you would get the same result on road or in the lab etc etc.

The 'real world' testing and the hype surrounding it (e.g. ICCT or Emissions Analytics) highlights that a vehicle maybe optimised for a certain drivecycle albeit contained within the standard calibration (so no VW special calibrations used just at certain times etc and not all the time). The 'real world' info highlights that outside of the specific legislative drivecycle operating points, vehicles can show poorer performance or higher emissions etc. But, such operating points are outside of the legislative cycles hence that's to be expected.
 

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Hi

Re this report http://www.theicct.org/news/press-r...ation-nox-emissions-modern-diesel-cars-new-eu they conclude that only some vehicles which already pass the emissions test on the NEDC (relevant for that particular year and type of vehicle's type approval) also pass (the not yet legislative cycle for these cars) WLTC.

To me that's obvious. Why would a vehicle developed to pass one cycle (NEDC) be expected to pass another cycle (WLTC).

This is an area where people are expecting the vehicle's to be compliant under a range of conditions not specified in the legislation and for which the vehicle is not legislatively tested against. Bit of a vague target then!

Such behaviour is legal. As is a vehicle having an emissions or fuel consumption performance under conditions outside of the legislative cycle which then differ from results on the legislative cycle. It's like the legislative cycle is 100% urban stop start driving and then people complain that when the drive on the highway they get a different result!

If your vehicle calibration includes within it (and used all the time) operating points optimised for a legislative drivecycle then that is legal.

However, what VW did is only use a certain calibration when the vehicle was undergoing an emissions test. These operating modes were never used except during an emissions test. That's a defeat device and that's illegal.

VW put image of being first with diesels in the US ahead of actually meeting legislation. It now seems they did the same in Europe.

Here's the logic for VW

"The test is too hard"

"Ok, we'll just cheat"
 

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http://www.theicct.org/news/press-r...ation-nox-emissions-modern-diesel-cars-new-eu


They all lie somewhat.

Only one volvo was tested. That conclusion for volvo was a mix of not large enough sample and very poor/ unfit for testing real-driving emissions.
However this study does not present specific data like by model/year ect..

And it doesn't indicate if this is the exact study that led to diesel-gate
C&D has an excellent article explaining how everything unfolded: http://blog.caranddriver.com/how-volkswagen-got-busted-for-gaming-epa-diesel-emissions-standards/

And I don't think that report is saying that they all lie, just that vehicles are optimized to the specific testing cycle rather than to actually minimize emissions in real world driving.

I think you'll find that the liars are the ones who performed particularly well under the new cycle, as the alternate engine cycle comes into use under testing conditions that may have been used in both whereas the ones who are cited for performing poorly in the new cycle were not using such tricks - hence why they "lost."
 

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About the one-off Volvo that got 14.6 times the emissions in the real world environment compared to the lab;

"Volvo said in a statement: 'Analysis shows that a faulty car was used for this test; a correct Volvo would never have generated these results. The same agency tested several normal Volvos previously, using similar methods, generating normal results. We have investigated this incident further and discovered that the car’s emission control system was out of order.' "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...d-Hyundai-could-all-fail-future-EU-tests.html
 

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'But EVERYBODY is doing it, not just me!' is not an excuse I hear much from anybody over the age of six…
"Everybody is doing it" are the most dreaded words in business. I don't care if anyone is under pressure to perform or gain an advantage...the simple question everyone needs to ask themselves, when tempted, is "how would I feel if I were to be discovered that I cheated"? Unfortunately, that is not something that exists in most of the corporate world.
 

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Of course, Yannis. Because at the C level in companies as large as VWAG, when you get fired you usually get a substantial severance package and then get picked up by someone who knows that (A) it's a ripe opportunity to get someone with your experience at a great price and (B) you're willing to take one for the team and be scapegoated if needed in exchange for all that money.
 

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Apparently BMW was sort of cheating emissions too.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/115092499384/bmw-caught-cheating-with-nitric-oxide-levels-shares

Although being very new, do you think Drive-E diesel engines may be using same tricks as well??

It would be a global meltdown for diesel market:facepalm::eek:
BMW isn't happy about this, and I would definitely agree with them if what they say about not having a "defeat device" in their vehicles be true. There's a difference between what VW was doing then having the car pollute more in day-to-day driving situations since many people's driving habits are different from what the EPA (or any country's equivalent) test cycles are. Otherwise why would that diesel X5 that was also tested by the same whistle blowers who caught VW not show a massive discrepancy as well?
 

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Otherwise why would that diesel X5 that was also tested by the same whistle blowers who caught VW not show a massive discrepancy as well?
Could be different engine from the X3 that was tested and failed. There are more than one Diesel engines.
 

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"Everybody is doing it" are the most dreaded words in business. I don't care if anyone is under pressure to perform or gain an advantage...the simple question everyone needs to ask themselves, when tempted, is "how would I feel if I were to be discovered that I cheated"? Unfortunately, that is not something that exists in most of the corporate world.
It's now the norm in society, politicians do it ALL the time. Not surprised with the car industry
 

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Spy shots of new Volvos carting around what sure look like exhaust gas analyzers as shared here should tell us something about how they do things. I wouldn't wring my hands over this one.

 

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Volvo isn't perfect though. Look at the new XC90. It was only recalled a month ago due to an Airbag fault.
Shhhhh, don't say such things on here. The Volvo Elite will have you banished to the gates of Hell! ;)
 

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Volvo isn't perfect though. Look at the new XC90. It was only recalled a month ago due to an Airbag fault.
They certainly aren't, but there's a big difference between a fault and intentionally building a car that evades regulatory requirements.
 

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Depends on how you look at it though Zircular. If buyers are hinging on safety they'll buy the XC90 with confidence. What does the real time reality of VW's scandal actually harm? That big thing called the Ozone, perhaps?
Aren't we in danger of just being a bit too critical versus hypocritical?
 
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