[anony00gt]

Maybe I'm alone here, but I personally HATE SUVs. I think its a travesty that Mercedes, BMW, and now Volvo, all companies that make great cars, are jumping on the bandwagon and making rediculous trucks. What will this thing be able to do that the current XC can't? It'll just put more of these freakin trucks on the road.

 

[[email protected]]

I guess that depends on how you look at it.

If you are in business, like all of the companies jumping into this arena even Porsche, then you must recognize the SUV market as one that is growing and has grown by leaps and bounds. People like SUVs, and the only thing that is going to change that quickly would be high fuel prices.

This is why many of them are moving towards hybrid SUVS based on cars (the XC90, Lexus Monstrosity (can't remember name), Toyota Highlander, etc etc are all care based and will probably at least get you better mileage and better handling than say a traditional SUV.

I see the utility aspect of an SUV, and this is inspiring taller more SUV like vehicles in the market as well, like the PT Cruiser and the Subaru Forrester (I still view this as a car).

While I hate looking around them also, I do see a market value to them. Further, Volvo is aiming right at SUVs and minivans with 7-passenger seating. I'm sure there'll be a large niche for owners with large families.

 

[anony00gt]

quote:

Originally posted by [email protected]:
Further, Volvo is aiming right at SUVs and minivans with 7-passenger seating. I'm sure there'll be a large niche for owners with large families.

I have yet to see an SUV with a 3rd row seat big enough for anyone older than age 5. I know I could sit comfortably in the 3rd row seat in my mother's old Town & Country minivan, but I have been in several SUVs (bigger than the upcoming XC90) with 3rd row seating and the 3rd row has about as much legroom as the back seat of my mustang. Not to mention the trunk space (or lack there of) with a 3rd row seat.

quote:

Originally posted by [email protected]:
I see the utility aspect of an SUV..blah blah blah

I ask again, what kind of utility does an SUV have that my mother's XC doesn't? If you're going to say towing, don't. Something like 10% of all SUV owners use them for towing heavy loads. Most cars and minivans can tow 3000-3500lbs anyway.

 

[[email protected]]

I didn't say most owners don't need what SUV's provide. Most SUVs have 4WD yet many aren't in the snow belt and never go off road. My buddy in Colorado goes to Moab and more local 4WD trails regularly and I see his need for an SUV. I also appreciate SUVs for what they are. That doesn't mean I think every other person on the road shouldn't have one or that I don't curse them when behind them in traffic. Far from it.

The XC90 will have seating for 7 and more useable space in the rear than the V70, and if I had three kids, I'd consider a car that big. I don't, so I don't.

I will tell you though that I owned a Grand Cherokee at one time. I loved how I could get around in the snow (same clearance as XC stock, but mine had a 1" lift), and do some off roading. Sorry, I'm not going to slam SUVs to slam SUVs. I'll slam them for predominantly being wasteful of gas, and I'll slam owners for buying them when they have no need or because of the misconception that they are safer (higher center of gravity makes me think that's not the case). I won't slam them though for not having a purpose. They do, and I enjoy off roading and would make use of the interior space if I had need, even though I don't currently own one.

 

[S.R.]

Interesting discussion. My sister currently owns a loaded Jeep Grand Cherokee, and it is a very nice vehicle. In fact, the Grand Cherokee is my favorite SUV right now, because it is not a poseur like most SUV's on the market right now. But with that said, I really like the Infiniti QX4 and Acura MDX, they are both supurb vehicles IMHO. The new QX4 has a gorgeous interior and the MDX is just a damn good all-round vehicle to own.

With the market the way it is today, it seems as if every car maker has to have an SUV to survive. I think that the XC90 will be a great seller, because it is just what soccer moms and couples with homes in the Hamptons are looking for. I hate to say it, but people love these vehicles, and the bottom line is, they sell. Just look at the V70 XC, it is outselling all the other V70 models, 3 to 1. In fact, the first generation XC was just an after-though by the folks at Volvo, and they were surprised as anyone with the success it became.

-Drew

 

[GrecianVolvo]

quote:

Originally posted by InDy:
Interesting discussion. My sister currently owns a loaded Jeep Grand Cherokee, and it is a very nice vehicle. In fact, the Grand Cherokee is my favorite SUV right now, because it is not a poseur like most SUV's on the market right now. But with that said, I really like the Infiniti QX4 and Acura MDX, they are both supurb vehicles IMHO. The new QX4 has a gorgeous interior and the MDX is just a damn good all-round vehicle to own.

With the market the way it is today, it seems as if every car maker has to have an SUV to survive. I think that the XC90 will be a great seller, because it is just what soccer moms and couples with homes in the Hamptons are looking for. I hate to say it, but people love these vehicles, and the bottom line is, they sell. Just look at the V70 XC, it is outselling all the other V70 models, 3 to 1. In fact, the first generation XC was just an after-though by the folks at Volvo, and they were surprised as anyone with the success it became.

-Drew

I really think that all SUVs are "poseurs" w/ the exception of the Land Rover and range Rover models. Will not include the Hummer as I do not consider that an SUV. The rest are just plain Janes.

Yannis

 

[11110000]

Here's how I look at it - SUVs are what people want. People will pay a premium to get what they really want, so SUVs typically have a higher profit margin. If Volvo makes an SUV, they'll make more money - and then they can put more effort into lower-profit projects like new 'R' models and coupes, and then I'll be getting what I want!!!

 

[[email protected]]

Yannis, many different SUVs are capable of serious off roading. Jeep still holds to the criteria of any new product they build being capable of doing the rubicon trail.

As much as I like Land Rover, the Freelander is more of a hybrid road car than any of the Jeep products.

We'll see if DC keeps the Jeep philosophy going, but I believe all current Jeep products have to hit that minimum, making them not really posers at all (though the new Grand Cherokee is a little too minivan looking for my tastes). I agree though, price no object, I'd probably opt for the Land Rover Disco Series II to take up some space in my garage. I love that ACE suspension system.

Then I'd build up an XC with a motor from the new R models (300hp) and a spaceball shifter. Ohhh yeah.

 

[anony00gt]

quote:

Originally posted by 11110000:
...SUVs are what people want. People will pay a premium to get what they really want, so SUVs typically have a higher profit margin.

This is true, but people only want SUVs because manufactureres tell them they want SUVs. Manufacturers advertise their SUVs as being rugged off-road machines and what not, when they know full well that 92% of all SUV buyers are never going to leave paved roads. About the snow, I honeslty can't remember the last time a RWD car with a set of snow tires hasn't been able to get me where I wanted to go.

Bottom line is, most people don't think for themselves (and this applies to more than just cars). They accept everything car companies and their commercials say as truth and never believe anything else.

I've talked to many truck-loving people, and when it comes down to it the only arguement they have to defend their decision to buy an SUV is to insult my car and point out its weaknesses. Or they say "SUVs are for men, and station wagons are for soccer moms"...but they quickly shut up when i take them on the road and happily show them that just about every SUV we see is being driven by a woman in her 40s.

 

[[email protected]]

I don't know about that. There's definitely pitching going on, but I think the public drives demand for car companies. When the SUV craze hit, the only cars for sale in that league were the Cherokee, 4dr Explorer and 2Dr Blazer. Public demand drove these manufacturers to release more offerings, and drop many small passenger cars because they were not selling. I don't agree with those tastes, but I see why manufacturers did it.

I see a use for SUVs too, and I see a definite strength to AWD. I've always thought Audis were cool, and if you've ever driven an AWD car in inclement weather, you will very likely feel significantly more in control, especially in higher powered cars. I'm glad to see Volvo offering AWD more readily. I also see a real use for SUVs even though I don't own one.

 

[S.R.]

I think that the new 'mall' SUV's are very useful vehicles. For example, the Acura MDX is sort of like owning a Honda Odyssey, Acura 3.5RL, and Honda Passport combined into one vehicle. I can honestly say that I like the RX300, QX4, X5, ML-Series, Envoy, and MDX even though their owners will never take them off-road. I still like the Grand Cherokee better, because I respect it more as an SUV, but how many owners are going to take that off-road as well, not many.

SUV's that I don't like? When I see people in Yukon XL's, Excursions, Suburbans, and Tahoes driving around on the roads with only one person in the vehicle on a regular basis. I am not really a fan of these vehicles. What's the point, when you can own a sweet QX4 that serves the purpose better?

-Drew

 

[Evolvo]

I think SUVs are a complete waste. Off roading is cool I guess, but who does that unless you live in Utah or something. Unless you own a ranch or have a litter of kids or maybe a harem

there's really no reason.

I may be strung up for this, but I think Volvo should have built a V90 Minivan instead of an XC90 SUV. Sure, minivan has soccer mom written all over it, but heck, so do Volvos.

And, if anyone from Ford reads this and likes the idea, PLEASE do not base it on the Windstar. That thing is a turd.

There aren't any minivans on the high end of the luxury segment, except for Town & Country, so that'd leave it wide open for Volvo.

 

[towerymt]

quote:

Originally posted by Evolvo:
I may be strung up for this, but I think Volvo should have built a V90 Minivan instead of an XC90 SUV. Sure, minivan has soccer mom written all over it, but heck, so do Volvos.

Hmmm, I like the sound of a minivan with an inline 6 twin-turbo putting out over 300hp through an AWD system. Does anyone offer a minivan with a sport suspension? Might as well target the "soccer dads" too.

BTW, I'll NEVER own a minivan for any reason. I'd go for a 4 door hatch or a wagon before looking at a minivan.

 

[745TRBOBRK]

quote:

Originally posted by towerymt:
Does anyone offer a minivan with a sport suspension?

I don't think so but the Honda has good enough handeling stock, plus it has lots of power. My dad got one for hauling stuff. We towed a boat from WA to TX 80mph the entire way. The gas mileage went down to about 15mpg over the rockies and went back up to 30mpg on the flat. Wish it had a stick though. Oh well it doesn't matter because I'll never buy a minivan OR drive one.

 

[[email protected]]

Yeah, like Michael said, an R would be cool. I might have to play with photoshop on that one.

 

[anony00gt]

quote:

Originally posted by towerymt:
Hmmm, I like the sound of a minivan with an inline 6 twin-turbo putting out over 300hp through an AWD system. Does anyone offer a minivan with a sport suspension? Might as well target the "soccer dads" too.

BTW, I'll NEVER own a minivan for any reason. I'd go for a 4 door hatch or a wagon before looking at a minivan.

If anyone ever debated the potential of a minivan, check this out. It's a video of a 1989 Dodge Caravan smoking an LS1 Camaro SS at the track. This minivan is good for a 12.65 @ 105 in the 1/4 mile, and its FWD too

(Sorry its a .zip file, you have to download and unzip it)
http://www.thedodgegarage.com/video/paul_van_12.zip

Also, a guy I worked with said he had a "sport suspension" on his Nissan Quest, not sure if he was right or what it is though.

 

[GrecianVolvo]

quote:

Originally posted by anony00gt:

If anyone ever debated the potential of a minivan, check this out. It's a video of a 1989 Dodge Caravan smoking an LS1 Camaro SS at the track. This minivan is good for a 12.65 @ 105 in the 1/4 mile, and its FWD too

(Sorry its a .zip file, you have to download and unzip it)
http://www.thedodgegarage.com/video/paul_van_12.zip

Also, a guy I worked with said he had a "sport suspension" on his Nissan Quest, not sure if he was right or what it is though.

Yeah, I saw this last year..this guy is a whack, isn't he?

Yannis

 

[Freeworld]

Let's face it, most SUVs are driven by 5' women who can barely see over the steering wheel and can hardly maneuver the vehicle. This is downright dangerous. Not to appear chauvinistic, the other population driving these things are men who otherwise feel inadequate. Maybe 10% of the pop who own them actually need them.

As for usability, I helped a soccer mom friend of mine buy a soccer mom car. Compared to all the small SUVs out there, the Subaru Outback blew them away even when it came to space. (She couldn't afford a XC). Similarly, my uncle's BMW X5 has much less space than my cousin's XC.

Bottom line: as someone mentioned earlier, companies make huge margins on these vehicles so they continue to push them. As for the rest of us, we're stuck driving behind them. The best part about driving my Volvo in Europe for a few weeks was not seeing many (if any) SUVs. Volvo is only guilty of one thing: wanting/needing to make money.