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Hi all, I posted my question in the XC70 forum, as that's the car we're interested in getting, but in retrospect, I figured it's a more general topic, so I'm cross posting it here.<p>I'd love to hear your input.<p>Here's my post: <A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=105338" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=105338</A><p>Thanks! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: Why are Volvo's recent sales numbers so poor? (Lotus99)

The smaller cars Volvo manufactures are being diverted away from the USA and kept in Europe, Asia, Russia, etc as the exchange rate favors those markets as opposed to the US Dollar's poor value currently. <p>When the dealers lose over 90% of their ability to sell C30, S40, V50 & S60 you can only lose sales versus last year. Plus the lease programs and cash back offers last year were better than what they have this year on those smaller cars and therefore the dealers did a good job of selling them. That inflation of sales last year versus non-existent sales this year pretty much says it all. <p>If you walk into a Volvo dealer now and ask for a lease on an S60 you better hold onto your wallet. get an S80 or an XC70 instead. They are a much better value.
 

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Re: Why are Volvo's recent sales numbers so poor? (gabepv544)

Why? Because there is nothing to sell.<p>Trick financing will move cars, just as it will move real estate, but eventually, "the chickens come home to roost."
 

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Re: (exvolvoowner)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>exvolvoowner</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Because Volvo no longer makes a quality car</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I don't think it has anything to do with quality.<p>I think it's a combination of:<br>1) pricing, features, and options<br>2) fuel efficiency<br>3) performance<br>4) model age<br>5) Maybe styling ???<p>One thing I've noticed more and more in this forum is owners stating that Volvo no longer offers something they want (me included). I look at the V70 as an example. I currently own one, when we got it we loved the decision and we still like the car now. When I price a new one in consideration of replacing our old one it seems like I can still get the same basic volvo I bought 10 years ago for just about the same price today. So what's the issue I ask myself? Why doesn't that make me happy and why do I feel they're not selling me something I want? Because when I research the competition, I feel like for the money AND my specific priorities, various competition are offering new products that I think will give me more value for my money. Quality has never crossed my mind as the issue.<p>For essentially the same price I bought our original V70, I feel like I'd be getting the same car I bought 10 years, it would just look different and be SLOWER. It doesn't seem like there's even one MAJOR new standard feature included over what the car included 10 years ago. Ok, bluetooth, big deal. In fact, 10years ago, I could choose a performance model. Now I can't. I'd be paying to get one more cylinder, probably the same gas mileage (hard to compare numbers across years though), and WORSE performance.<p>And when I look at various competition, I do see lots of them offering new major STANDARD features like leather, sunroof, xenon, sateliite radio, better stereos, ipod, parking sensors, nicer and SMARTER interiors, improved fuel efficiency, improved performance, etc. The new V70 is BORING unless I want to pay a fortune to add stuff to it. And even then, adding every single volvo option still doesn't give me some features that others offer. In some fashion, all the other cars I'm considering at their base level offer some NEW STANDARD feature that I'd actually like or benefit from even if I wouldn't have actually chosen to get it myself if it were an option. While there are some new standard features in the 70s over my original model, it seems most are trivial or even just nonsense.<p>Same thing with our XC90. I love our XC90. But if something happened to it today and I had to replace it, even just compared to three years ago, a NEW XC90 would just be the same thing I got three years ago. But the competition, compared to what they offered three years ago, they already have improved and offer more value for the dollar.<p>Volvo's problem I think is<br>1) They are extremely slow to move and stubborn<br>2) Have lost touch with reality, their customers, and what people consider a value.<br>3) Spending more time and resources seeking new customers with new models. What next? An XP100 pickup?<p>
 

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Re: Why are Volvo's recent sales numbers so poor? (Lotus99)

1) Economy- Nuff said<p>2) The marketplace demands a Germanic car. If you make a car in the $30,000+ range, it has to be BMW-like. It has to perform like a 3-series. I feel like these days there is no difference between a Infiniti, BMW, Cadillac. Except for the design and price. Whenever you read a car review, if it says "handling/acceleration/performance is very German-like" that is a compliment. How did Cadillac revive its brand among car magazines? Make it more German. <p>In order for Volvo to survive all they have to do is the following<br>1) Poach BMW suspension engineers<br>2) Poach BMW engine engineers<br>3) Poach Chris Bangle. Yes I said it, just go German all the way.<br>4) Test at Nurburgring in highly publicized testing sessions<br>5) Build a BMW in Sweeden<br>6) Get automotive press to say Volvo is BMW-like, the handling is "teutonic", and Volvo's new straight 6 prefers sauerkraut over Sweedish meatballs.<p>3) Brand recognition- BMW, Audi, MB, even VW are all cool. The Japanese are building up their brand image. But Volvo's brand image is soccer mom. Volvo is not cool. You want to look like a player when you pull up in front of a club? Don't pick a Volvo. <p>So even if the next gen S60 has the performance of a BMW M5, gets 40mpg on regular, has Lexus reliability, beautiful design, all for $25,000, with a R-version that has the performance of a 911 turbo with a 2mpg penalty selling for $30,000 it won't sell as well as a flawed BMW due to image. It will only appeal to those few who like having a sleeper car, not the yuppies that want to make an impression. They have to create halo cars- the next R must defeat its BMW M rival. And it has to do this for several years to reverse the soccer mom image. It has to make the car look angry and aggressive.<p>I think German cars are great, but for me after driving a few- it's more or less the same thing. The first BMW I drove was fantastic, the second one I drove was more of the same. The beauty of German cars is that it does everything well. Nothing flusters it. 50mph-90mph, a series of turns, it just does it. I was simply amazed by it in the beginning, but then it can get boring after awhile. Don't get me wrong, the other day I drove a 3-series and the handling and suspension were brilliant. Far, far better than my S40. But it's like playing a video game when you are invincible. You can do anything, but after awhile it gets boring. <p>I want something different. But I admit that I am in the minority when it comes to this. At the same time, if you've never driven a German car and enjoy cars, I think everybody should drive/own a BMW/MB/Audi once. They really are good cars. <p><br>
 

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Re: Why are Volvo's recent sales numbers so poor? (Lotus99)

Gees<br>Dumb question<br>How about <B>NO ONE IS SELLING ANYTHING RIGHT NOW</B>
 

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Re: Why are Volvo's recent sales numbers so poor? (JRL)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JRL</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Gees<br>Dumb question<br>How about <B>NO ONE IS SELLING ANYTHING RIGHT NOW</B></TD></TR></TABLE><p>JRL... I'd have expected more of you. Come on. Sales are slow for everyone, yes, and September was especially bad. But what you say is just factually NOT true. And as a bonus, thanks for making it personal. <I>Your</I> statement is a dumb one and not based on facts.<p>As of end of September, Volvo's YTD sales in units are 5,313 compared to 7,589 from the prior year, a decrease of 30% (from the Volvo media site).<p>Audi's by contrast are <B>UP</B> 7% with 6,720 units sold. If you don't trust me, check out the newswire: <A HREF="http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/October2008/01/c2177.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.newswire.ca/en/rele....html</A><p>Same goes for VW. Their sales were <B>UP</B> 2% year to date, as of end of September.<p>BMW as of end of August, was also up 2.5%....
 

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Re: Why are Volvo's recent sales numbers so poor? (Lotus99)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Lotus99</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>JRL... I'd have expected more of you. Come on. Sales are slow for everyone, yes, and September was especially bad. But what you say is just factually NOT true. And as a bonus, thanks for making it personal. <I>Your</I> statement is a dumb one and not based on facts.<p>As of end of September, Volvo's YTD sales in units are 5,313 compared to 7,589 from the prior year, a decrease of 30% (from the Volvo media site).<p>Audi's by contrast are <B>UP</B> 7% with 6,720 units sold. If you don't trust me, check out the newswire: <A HREF="http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/October2008/01/c2177.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.newswire.ca/en/rele....html</A><p>Same goes for VW. Their sales were <B>UP</B> 2% year to date, as of end of September.<p>BMW as of end of August, was also up 2.5%....</TD></TR></TABLE><p>It's quite true and if you were in the car business you would know this.<br>The only people that are buying are people with leases that are up and people who NEED a car, whim buying is not here right now.<br>Also the fact that Volvo has poor leases, no rebates now and a old, uninspiring and somewhat aging model line does not help
 

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Re: Why are Volvo's recent sales numbers so poor? (JRL)

man that is right. i was in an audi store today and was offered a just off lease car with 19k miles, an a 4 wagon, with all the bells and whistles for about 24k.<p>and the guy said he could deal.<p>i mean it was a good deal to start with. but..............<p>sales numbers do not mean profitability. they were desperate to move anything.
 

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Snobby attitudes at the Volvo dealership (not all, but at the one near me) and lack of decent marketing (should I say poor or non-existent?) certainly doesn't help the Volvo line.
 

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Re: Why are Volvo's recent sales numbers so poor? (Lotus99)

I see the main problem as an economic one. Everyone's numbers are down in North America right now. Something that I think makes it especially difficult for Volvo is that the clientele are especially rational folks who are careful with their money, even when they have a lot of it. When money is tight, Volvo buyers are the first ones to realize that buying a new $30k or $40k car is a luxury and not a necessity. Another result of the worldwide economic slump is that Volvo can't put together lease and finance programs that are as compelling as what was offered two years ago, and that hurts too. <p>Anyone who understands what Volvo is about will understand that the Volvo product is more compelling today than ever, so I don't think that's the problem, although obviously Volvo has never and will never be a car with truly mass appeal - a lot of people just don't "get it". Where I think Volvo is failing is in marketing. The C30 is one good example of this. In the C30, Volvo has a car that is vastly more comfortable, practical and visually appealing than every one of its competitors. Moreover, it costs less than a Mini Cooper S. I have nothing against the Mini, but I've spent enough time with both cars to know that for the vast majority of shoppers in that niche the C30 should be the obvious choice. The fact that the C30 hasn't caught on has to be due to the fact that Volvo / Ford just haven't made a serious effort to get word out. That failure to advocate for themselves effectively is taking a serious toll.
 

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Re: Why are Volvo's recent sales numbers so poor? (turboS70)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>turboS70</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Anyone who understands what Volvo is about will understand that the Volvo product is more compelling today than ever, so I don't think that's the problem, although obviously Volvo has never and will never be a car with truly mass appeal - a lot of people just don't "get it". Where I think Volvo is failing is in marketing. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>You can't market a left-field choice for it to become popular. It's Volvo itself. Make Volvo German. That's how you improve sales. Staying Swedish with a big ad campaign won't sell cars. <p><br>
 

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Re: Why are Volvo's recent sales numbers so poor? (eurotrash)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>eurotrash</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>You can't market a left-field choice for it to become popular. It's Volvo itself. Make Volvo German. That's how you improve sales. Staying Swedish with a big ad campaign won't sell cars. <p><br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>But that what Volvo is about - left field choice. There are many other mass appeal cars, but they are not Volvo. <p>I want MY Volvo to be different from German and Japanese, and yet I want it to be a relatively small-production company. This is the essence of Volvo in my mind. <p>My take on whole situation is: <p>1. Volvo is always going to be a limited production company. They need to sell just enough units to be profitable. Which means...<br> <br>2. Volvo can only survive in the up-market segment, whatever you call it - luxury, premium, premium-luxury, or any combination of thereof. Which means...<br> <br>3. Volvo cannot be cheap, they need to have a hefty margin built into each unit. Which means...<br> <br>4. Volvo needs a fresh message. Safety is used and abused by everyone. Which means ...<p>5. Volvo needs a new marketing genius to sustain on US market (not happening yet), or...<br> <br>6. Focus on other markets, where current message - Ultimate safety with Swedish luxury still works (is happening in Russia, China and some other countries). <p>I maintain my position that technologically, Volvo is better today than ever...and as said above is more compelling to people than ever...<br>
 

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Re: Why are Volvo's recent sales numbers so poor? (gascos80)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>gascos80</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>But that what Volvo is about - left field choice. There are many other mass appeal cars, but they are not Volvo. <p>I want MY Volvo to be different from German and Japanese, and yet I want it to be a relatively small-production company. This is the essence of Volvo in my mind. <br></TD></TR></TABLE><br>You are in the minority- take a look at these boards- most people aren't happy with their Volvo like people are happy with a BMW. People in general do not want a Volvo. <p>Volvo is better today, but it is not compelling to people. Compelling = German. If Volvo were to just buy up used last gen 5-series, rebadge it as a Volvo, and sell it as the brand new 2010 S60, it would sell more than a totally new, totally redesigned S60. <p>I disagree about the marketing, it's not the marketing, it's the product. It's not German enough. When have you seen Volvos running around the Nurburgring? That's standard issue testing for upmarket cars. Even Cadillac finally realized it has to do that. <p>Volvo should be taking a page from Corvette and Cadillac- for years they were the losers compared to the Europeans and things have changed. Now they are beating the Germans in lap times there. They know they have to make their car German- go to the Nurburgring and flip the bird to the locals. Being German works, it sells, it boosts profit margins.<br> <p>
 

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Re: Why are Volvo's recent sales numbers so poor? (eurotrash)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>eurotrash</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>You are in the minority- take a look at these boards- most people aren't happy with their Volvo like people are happy with a BMW. People in general do not want a Volvo. <p>Volvo is better today, but it is not compelling to people. Compelling = German. If Volvo were to just buy up used last gen 5-series, rebadge it as a Volvo, and sell it as the brand new 2010 S60, it would sell more than a totally new, totally redesigned S60. <p>I disagree about the marketing, it's not the marketing, it's the product. It's not German enough. When have you seen Volvos running around the Nurburgring? That's standard issue testing for upmarket cars. Even Cadillac finally realized it has to do that. <p>Volvo should be taking a page from Corvette and Cadillac- for years they were the losers compared to the Europeans and things have changed. Now they are beating the Germans in lap times there. They know they have to make their car German- go to the Nurburgring and flip the bird to the locals. Being German works, it sells, it boosts profit margins.<br> <p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I beg to differ. I could agree with you, if SS would be a fair slice of Volvo-buying public. SS is driven by R-wannabees. Just monitor the volume of R-forum vs. everything else. <p>I also failed to follow your logic - there are 4 German brands, and one Japanese brand (Nissan/Infinity, that screams - we are just like BMW) already. I have plenty of choices to buy a German car if want it. Why do I need a second-hand Swedish poor replica of an old German design? <p>So I am a minority here on SS, and proud of it, as I strongly believe that catering to SS-like crowd that you refer is one of the reasons for US demise of Volvo brand. <p>Too much attention to small, but VERY vocal crowd, chanting - more power, more power, more power... <p>I am truly glad that V8 experiment is finally going to be over. I am on the record here predicting its limited life span BEFORE it was even officially introduced. <p>And I really-really-really hope, keep my fingers crossed, etc. that new Volvo management will NEVER follow a path of re-inventing the performance car. It will be the death sentence for the brand. It will suck all living blood out of it with no practical results. <p>Cadillac maybe running laps at Nurburgring, but black crows are running laps around decomposing corp of GM. It WILL BE dead soon, if our government will not bail the company out. Do you read newspapers? <p>Mark my words - there are only two alternatives for Volvo - maintain its automotive philosophy independence, while getting its act together (decent quality, superb exterior and interior design, UNSURPASSED safety that can be proved objectively, and clever marketing) - or a slow death by assimilation...<br>
 

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Re: Why are Volvo's recent sales numbers so poor? (eurotrash)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>eurotrash</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>You are in the minority- take a look at these boards- most people aren't happy with their Volvo like people are happy with a BMW. People in general do not want a Volvo. <p>Volvo is better today, but it is not compelling to people. Compelling = German. If Volvo were to just buy up used last gen 5-series, rebadge it as a Volvo, and sell it as the brand new 2010 S60, it would sell more than a totally new, totally redesigned S60. <p>I disagree about the marketing, it's not the marketing, it's the product. It's not German enough. When have you seen Volvos running around the Nurburgring? That's standard issue testing for upmarket cars. Even Cadillac finally realized it has to do that. <p>Volvo should be taking a page from Corvette and Cadillac- for years they were the losers compared to the Europeans and things have changed. Now they are beating the Germans in lap times there. They know they have to make their car German- go to the Nurburgring and flip the bird to the locals. Being German works, it sells, it boosts profit margins.<br> <p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>you are never going to out German the Germans.<br>There are PLENTY of prospective customers out there who don't like or want German cars. Lexus does a fine job with those people.<p>Swedespeed is great, but trust me it is nowhere near representative of the average Volvo customer.
 

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Re: Why are Volvo's recent sales numbers so poor? (VolvoMax)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>VolvoMax</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Swedespeed is great, but trust me it is nowhere near representative of the average Volvo customer.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Quite true, however.....<br>The "average new car customer" wants their car to go from oil change to oil change without all the stupid parts breaking/failing like almost all Volvos do every other week or every month!<br>They want to drive to 30K, then change the brake pads, flush their fluids and go another 30K with only minor oil changes in between.<p><B>Until Volvo can make this happen they will continue to slide and slide and slide.......down the auto food chain</B>
 

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Re: Why are Volvo's recent sales numbers so poor? (JRL)

ABSOLUTE TRUTH. We are now shopping for a replacement for our v40. this morning it threw the code PO128, coolant temp low. wow. ok, i clear it and it has not returned in 3 short trips.<p>however, it now should go to William's volvo store/shop. I will wait 3 hours to have them say i need a new thermostat, and, probably a new coolant temp sensor. they will have to order the sensor.<p>i will have to go back another day and wait 3 hours to have them say it will still be a while yet. ya hoooooo it is always something.<p>f volvo. no more will i have such poor servicability in an average car.<p>toyota next i think.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by hastee at 4:10 PM 11-1-2008</i>
 
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