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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In the process of looking for a new xc90 and looking at the 2019 inventory, there are literally no t8 r-design bursting blue I n the north east area at all. Wondering if I should just get the t6 as there are nice discounts on them now. Thought a hybrid would be nice as the daily family car moving the kids around for activities but there are none and the cost would be much higher
 

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T8 demanding is higher than estimated and planned by Volvo. Also dealer probably don't want to stock T8 because it is not as easy to sell as T6. T6 buyers are still the majority.

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We had to special order ours. Test drove the T6, but then decided we wanted the T8 and special ordered it. So glad - love the ride. Mostly the vehicle is driven within a fairly limited range so usually mostly just drive in electric. Have a Juicebox charger whose app claims that in the 6 months that I've had the charger it's saved me $1000 in gas which I'm happy to believe although I'll admit I haven't doublechecked the calculations. Granted it will take a long time for that cost of the car to be paid off (if ever) but in the meantime I enjoy the very quiet ride.
 

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Forget bursting blue or R-design. What about any T8 in the northeast inventory?!?! When we were looking in early 2018 there were no T8s in the larger Boston area - un effin believable! :) So I had to "sneak in" T8 test drives during business trips to California. In the San Jose area I found only 1 then in the San Diego area I could only find 2 . . . What?!?!
We ended up OSDing our T8 rather than special order (we were going to Europe anyway, why not for almost free?!) to get the options we wanted and we are extremely happy with it.
We use it primarily as a family hauler (cool sporty 7 seat minivan racecar of safety!) and since work provides free charging our fuel bills are quite low. Our mpg is around 43mpg and it would be far higher except for those darn Boston trips from the burbs exceeding the T8's all-electric range. (Here's to hoping future higher power density battery upgrades will be retrofittable . . . hint, hint Volvo . . .)
If your heart wants the T8 I'd say go for it rather than "settle" for the T6. It was worth the wait for us.
Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Just out of curiosity, what is the range of prices paid for t8?
 

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We had to special order ours. Test drove the T6, but then decided we wanted the T8 and special ordered it. So glad - love the ride. Mostly the vehicle is driven within a fairly limited range so usually mostly just drive in electric. Have a Juicebox charger whose app claims that in the 6 months that I've had the charger it's saved me $1000 in gas which I'm happy to believe although I'll admit I haven't doublechecked the calculations. Granted it will take a long time for that cost of the car to be paid off (if ever) but in the meantime I enjoy the very quiet ride.
Not sure what special incentive you have in Toronto. However, in the United States we have several. First of all depending on the State you live in there is often a Rebate check that is mailed out. For a plugin it is probably around $1000 to $1500. Then there is the Federal Government, you get a deduction of $5000 from your tax liability. In addition if you have a business this car qualifies for the accelerated depreciation which will net you approximately a $38,000 first year deduction. So when you add that to the price of the vehicle as well as the gas savings over the standard it is really a good deal. Also the T8 has better performance just in case you like that kind of stuff. Of course for us tree huggers there is no substitute.
 

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I live in Buffalo. My dealer sold 3 T8s in 2017. Two were bought back as lemons. Mine is stuck in litigation. My dealer will not stock them anymore and he told me he would rather not sell them, unless the customer REALLY insists, because they are too much of a headache.

My personal belief is that these hybrids are not ready for cold weather.

Now, I know the fanboys here will disagree. But there is no denying that some dealers are not enthusiastic about selling T8s. Well, ok, to be fair, I have a sample size of one. ;)
 

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I live in Buffalo. My dealer sold 3 T8s in 2017. Two were bought back as lemons. Mine is stuck in litigation. My dealer will not stock them anymore and he told me he would rather not sell them, unless the customer REALLY insists, because they are too much of a headache.

My personal belief is that these hybrids are not ready for cold weather.

Now, I know the fanboys here will disagree. But there is no denying that some dealers are not enthusiastic about selling T8s. Well, ok, to be fair, I have a sample size of one. ;)
It could be something in cold weather the engine keeps charging battery and also use battery which is inefficient in cold weather. It may be just better if don't use the battery at all. T6 ICE along is still quite good to move the 4600 lbs car.

I too want a battery saving mode that charge the battery with regenerative braking but don't use it while on freeway. This is different from the two current modes to hold or charge battery level today.

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It could be something in cold weather the engine keeps charging battery and also use battery which is inefficient in cold weather. It may be just better if don't use the battery at all. T6 ICE along is still quite good to move the 4600 lbs car.

I too want a battery saving mode that charge the battery with regenerative braking but don't use it while on freeway. This is different from the two modes to keeping or charging battery level today.

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Yes, I am very puzzled by cold-weather behavior. I have written about it before. It seems to me that, when temps fall below some threshold (say, below 0F), the engine uses some energy to keep the battery warm - no matter in which mode (battery saving, charging, or otherwise). I don't know how else to explain the dramatic variations in fuel efficiency. On the same route (Buffalo to West Lafayette, Indiana) that I happen to drive quite often, I have averaged 28-30 mpgs in summertime, and, in the worst case, below 14 mpgs in very cold weather. Same average speed, no significant wind. At 0F, the graphic display indicated that the battery was being CONSTANTLY charged for the entire 500 miles trip. Sure, ethanol in winter gas might make a difference, but that is huge. At 14 mpgs, the 13 gallon gas tank becomes a nightmare. I have spoken to dealers and engineers, but I never got quite a clear explanation as to why, below a certain temp, the battery is constantly being charged by the ICE, regardless of setting. Perhaps someone with more technical knowledge could enlighten us.
 

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Yes, I am very puzzled by cold-weather behavior. I have written about it before. It seems to me that, when temps fall below some threshold (say, below 0F), the engine uses some energy to keep the battery warm - no matter in which mode (battery saving, charging, or otherwise). I don't know how else to explain the dramatic variations in fuel efficiency. On the same route (Buffalo to West Lafayette, Indiana) that I happen to drive quite often, I have averaged 28-30 mpgs in summertime, and, in the worst case, below 14 mpgs in very cold weather. Same average speed, no significant wind. At 0F, the graphic display indicated that the battery was being CONSTANTLY charged for the entire 500 miles trip. Sure, ethanol in winter gas might make a difference, but that is huge. At 14 mpgs, the 13 gallon gas tank becomes a nightmare. I have spoken to dealers and engineers, but I never got quite a clear explanation as to why, below a certain temp, the battery is constantly being charged by the ICE, regardless of setting. Perhaps someone with more technical knowledge could enlighten us.
This was our 2nd winter with our T8 and our 1st winter with a Tesla 3. I’ve read on several Tesla forums and elsewhere that cold weather causes a significant reduction in the amount of battery available for driving. I had read 20-30% but based on my daily experience, I would say it’s signficantly more of a reduction. For example, I drive 8-10 miles one way to work. During the extremely cold days, I would arrive at work with perhaps a 1/4 of the battery left. In warmer weather (50 degrees and warmer), I typically have 50% of my battery intact.

I would love to see a 50 mile range in the T8, and now that the Tesla Y will be available in a few years and that it can seat 7 (albeit not as comfortably as the T8), in order to stay competitive, I hope Volvo can increase the electric range instead of increasing the size of the gas tank as in the 2019 T8s. A full electric car requires planning for long trips. A PHEV gives me the flexibility to use electric for most short range driving but in an emergency, I can drive several hundred miles with brief gas fill ups.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This was our 2nd winter with our T8 and our 1st winter with a Tesla 3. I’ve read on several Tesla forums and elsewhere that cold weather causes a significant reduction in the amount of battery available for driving. I had read 20-30% but based on my daily experience, I would say it’s signficantly more of a reduction. For example, I drive 8-10 miles one way to work. During the extremely cold days, I would arrive at work with perhaps a 1/4 of the battery left. In warmer weather (50 degrees and warmer), I typically have 50% of my battery intact.

I would love to see a 50 mile range in the T8, and now that the Tesla Y will be available in a few years and that it can seat 7 (albeit not as comfortably as the T8), in order to stay competitive, I hope Volvo can increase the electric range instead of increasing the size of the gas tank as in the 2019 T8s. A full electric car requires planning for long trips. A PHEV gives me the flexibility to use electric for most short range driving but in an emergency, I can drive several hundred miles with brief gas fill ups.
Just curious, based on your experience and if you had a choice, would you still have purchased your T8?
 

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I live in Buffalo. My dealer sold 3 T8s in 2017. Two were bought back as lemons. Mine is stuck in litigation. My dealer will not stock them anymore and he told me he would rather not sell them, unless the customer REALLY insists, because they are too much of a headache.

My personal belief is that these hybrids are not ready for cold weather.

Now, I know the fanboys here will disagree. But there is no denying that some dealers are not enthusiastic about selling T8s. Well, ok, to be fair, I have a sample size of one. ;)
Dealer trade-in on a faulty T6 back in February 2018. The dealer had one T8 that sat in the lot for months. There were probably over a hundred T6s After trading in the T6, I took the T8. This dealership moves a lot of Volvos so based on my single experience and other posts in this thread, it would appear that the market for these T8s is a fraction to the T6 market and I can see why a dealer would not want to have such an expensive piece of inventory sit in a lot for months.
 

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Yes, the T8s tended to be loaded with tech as they were flagship of the XC90s. Mine had an MSRP of $85,810. I am not sure that there was much more available to add other than the hitch. With fingers crossed still no problems at 10,000 miles.
 

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A Volvo dealer near me could not sell the few T8s in inventory for the better part of a year. Ended up placing them in its loaner fleet. Needless to say, they no longer stock any T8 models.
 

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A Volvo dealer near me could not sell the few T8s in inventory for the better part of a year. Ended up placing them in its loaner fleet. Needless to say, they no longer stock any T8 models.
I would think a T8 would make an impractical loaner. no one is ever going to charge the battery, and with the smaller take the person borrowing it will be filling up more.
 

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The T8 is the most expensive car. The plugin hybrid, while very nice, is going to be viewed as an unnecessary extravagance by a lot of buyers. So, you're naturally going to see smaller percentage of T8s out there. I love my T8, but I don't see a lot of T8s among the XC90s out here in New York.
 

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$80K Volvo lol. If you want one so badly, definitely order one?
 

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Yes, I am very puzzled by cold-weather behavior. I have written about it before. It seems to me that, when temps fall below some threshold (say, below 0F), the engine uses some energy to keep the battery warm - no matter in which mode (battery saving, charging, or otherwise). I don't know how else to explain the dramatic variations in fuel efficiency. On the same route (Buffalo to West Lafayette, Indiana) that I happen to drive quite often, I have averaged 28-30 mpgs in summertime, and, in the worst case, below 14 mpgs in very cold weather. Same average speed, no significant wind. At 0F, the graphic display indicated that the battery was being CONSTANTLY charged for the entire 500 miles trip. Sure, ethanol in winter gas might make a difference, but that is huge. At 14 mpgs, the 13 gallon gas tank becomes a nightmare. I have spoken to dealers and engineers, but I never got quite a clear explanation as to why, below a certain temp, the battery is constantly being charged by the ICE, regardless of setting. Perhaps someone with more technical knowledge could enlighten us.
It's because Lithium batteries like to be kept warm when being charged. Buy a radio-controlled car, then you'll understand (eg. a Traxxas)

I've had two Hybrid cars, I'll never buy one again. ICE is plenty good for me and gets decent mileage.
 

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This is one of the most interesting threads I've seen at Swedespeed. The question begs a lot of questions concerning Volvo's intent.
A year ago, I spent a lot of time test-driving the three T8 models in Volvo's stable: XC60, S90, and XC90. I really wanted to get off of an ICE-only vehicle and into a PHEV, and I've owned and driven Volvos continuously since 1985 (had I bought one of the T8s, we'd have two Volvos in our household, because our Cross Country wagon isn't going anywhere). But I was very disappointed, sadly, in the Volvo T8s -- in their range and their technology. To my wife's dismay because of the extra cost, I got a Panamera E-Hybrid last year and now have nearly a year and over 18k miles of experience with it; the technology is light-years ahead of Volvo's PHEV technology (both electric and ICE power go to all four wheels; the information screens are very superior and much less confusing; and the 14-kWh battery provides significantly more range, so that I'm driving 1000-1200 miles on a tank of gas when driving locally). I've written about this elsewhere on Swedespeed, as some of you probably recall.

I visited no fewer than seven Volvo dealerships in my metropolitan area to test-drive those T8s a year ago, and I found that initially none of them had their T8 vehicle fully charged when I arrived via appointment to test-drive each one; some of them had only a couple miles of charge, in fact! Sometimes I'd ask in advance to be sure the vehicle was charged, and it still had only a small percentage of capacity when I arrived! In several cases, I arranged second appointments to go back after they'd been fully charged overnight, and I drove them in a series of tests to watch how the battery depleted as a function of time, driving speed, and ambient temperature, taking lots of photos for analysis later -- especially trying to figure out the absurd "T8 tachometer" regarding the floating, moving "drops" (talk about a bad design; the tachometer should remain a permanent display in engine rpms, with a separate display for electric-motor info, as in my Panamera). But the dealerships clearly weren't much into promoting their T8s, and not having any charged is mind-boggling stupid. If I'm a sales manager at a Volvo dealership, my for-sale T8s are all fully charged overnight, every day, and I'm instructing my sales people to tell every customer about the T8s.

But the point is that Volvo is pushing hard for electrifying their fleet, and they are behind the competition in capability. The low range (10-kWh battery pack) in the Volvo T8s was a killer for me. Porsche went from 10 to 14 kWh in their PHEV battery capacity a couple years ago *without increasing the size of their battery pack at all* via better density in packing the battery cells, and they are poised for what appears to be another increase of about 25-30 percent in range this next year (again without increasing the size of the battery pack), according to remarks from CEO Oliver Blume this month. But if Volvo is going to make a big deal about electrifying their fleet, they shouldn't be putting the cart (announcements about grand electrification) before the horse (having impressive updated vehicles now to show off).

Now, I wasn't aware of so many technical problems with the T8s that have been sold, but I'm not surprised, given the complexity of a PHEV with a supercharged and turbocharged relatively small engine. I don't know if there's more potential for an AWD PHEV to have problems with the engine driving only the front axle and the electric motor driving only the rear axle (as in the Volvo T8s) or in the case of a linked drivetrain where both ICE and electric motor powers both axles (as in the Porsche E-Hybrids), but I can say that my car has performed flawlessly so far (and I've not read about any drivetrain problems in the E-Hybrids on the Porsche owners forum). I wouldn't own my E-Hybrid outside of warranty, for worry of potential costly problems in the complex drivetrain, just as I wouldn't a Volvo T8 outside of warranty. But I think that Volvo is doing something very wrong here in terms of marketing their T8s, given their public stance toward electrification -- something is very odd about this. I can understand (as was said above in this thread) that some dealers know there are problems with T8s, and they don't want to deal with the headaches of selling them -- but this is also a sad reflection on Volvo.

I know there are T8 owners on Swedespeed who love their vehicles and have no major problems; to them, I say that I'm still open to buying a T8 because I do trust Volvo as a company, and I'm just waiting them to improve their technology some more, and give some more range. And there are some here who claim that comparing Volvo PHEVs to Porsche PHEVs is not fair, but I argue that they are both luxury cars, and the top XC90 T8 model costs more than does the base Panamera 4 E-Hybrid, and the Cayenne SUV E-Hybrid starts at $79k (with same battery pack and technology as the Panamera) with a lot of standard features already but an MSRP that compares closely with Volvo's T8s. I also noted that in the past year, Porsche E-Hybrids have outsold Volvo T8s in the USA; in fact, as I recall, Panamera E-Hybrids outsold each of the individual Volvo T8 models (despite the T8s costing tens of thousands of dollars less, excepting the top-gun XC 90 Excellence version, which starts at $105k USD). Food for thought.

But I'd love to hear the CEO of Volvo HQ (Sweden) talk openly and candidly in interviews about some of these questions and problems, as CEO Blume has done for Porsche. What are Volvo's plans for PHEVs, moving forward? What kind of improvements can we expect in the next year or two or three? Are they going to take electrification seriously in their PHEVs, in terms of improving the capability, the reliability, and the range? Will they make efforts to market T8s more effectively, and give dealerships more incentives to have PHEVs front-and-center in their showrooms/lots and educate their customers about them and have them fully charged to test-drive? And very importantly, are they going to try to put good PHEV systems into cheaper Volvos, so that one doesn't have to be wealthy to afford one?
 

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A Volvo dealer near me could not sell the few T8s in inventory for the better part of a year. Ended up placing them in its loaner fleet. Needless to say, they no longer stock any T8 models.
Depends on the Region. In California (and, generally, anywhere on the west coast), we just can't get enough; extremely desirable.
 
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