[SwedishDoomGoblin]

Alright. SO my head's still out and I'm still just trying to wrap my head around what may have led to the prior overheat events thus head warpage to begin with. Really sucks that I have no clue what went down in this car's past, so I'm really just shooting into the dark now. While I never saw any codes related to the turbocharger, I'd be curious if an overboost situation could've led to this. Especially since the boost seemed to come on REALLY strong at times. I have no baseline reference though, so not sure if that's normal or at least normal for a '13 S60 engine put into a little C30, or if something really is wonky. Got my wheels turning, and since the turbo and everything is SO accessible now, think it might be worth tossing some parts at it to be on the safe side?

I'm thinking along the lines of a new turbo boost pressure solenoid, maybe a boost sensor (tho that's easy enough to do later I think), and a wastegate actuator (since that one would not be fun later on). Liking the wastegate actuator from Elevate, but not entirely sure I want to needlessly waste money either. What's the likelihood that these sorts of parts led to the car running hot to begin with?

It's all so frustrating to parse out because the reasoning for head gasket failure can be SO many possibilities and circular. The head gasket can fail due to warpage which was due to overheating, but the overheating can be due to other parts failing to begin with, and often those parts failing (like my heater hoses that blew right out) are due to head gasket failure.

 

[Facusan]

Well..... a broken coolant hose which let all coolant out isn't a clear enough cause for overheating?

It will be impossible to know what caused the misfires prior to overheating the engine. Maybe when the engine was in the S60, it could have been overheated previously. Could be the car was tuned and maybe was run on low octane fuel. Could be a million of unknown reasons.

Check and make sure you have the correct MAP/IAT sensor. I tried a T7 sensor on my T3 and the car gained a lot of low end power, but it was very wonky. Never threw a CEL. swapped back to a T3 sensor and drove smooth as before.

TCV isn't a bad idea to replace now, same as the wastegate and CBV is you plan on have it tuned later.

What's the likelihood that these sorts of parts led to the car running hot to begin with?

What's the likelihood that these sorts of parts led to the car running hot to begin with?

Those parts don't make the engine run hot. That would be a loss of coolant, a stuck thermostat or a failed radiator fan. If any of the turbo components fail, I think they could either make the car run rich (will actually run cooler) or just melt pistons (skipping the head gasket failure directly)

I think the biggest issue here was having an higher compression ratio than the ECU is accounting for.......

 

[SwedishDoomGoblin]

Well..... a broken coolant hose which let all coolant out isn't a clear enough cause for overheating?

Well, the warpage was probably present before, as evidenced by my mysterious vanishing coolant over the months. One shop I talked to said one of the biggest culprits of a blown head gasket is those specific heater hoses blowing (the ones that go from the engine and into the firewall)

It will be impossible to know what caused the misfires prior to overheating the engine. Maybe when the engine was in the S60, it could have been overheated previously. Could be the car was tuned and maybe was run on low octane fuel. Could be a million of unknown reasons.

OH! That's a good point! Perhaps the very S60 this came from could have overheated itself!!! Might've been warped by the time it got into this car. Especially if they did a full motor swap, some former owner might've never even known. Like you said though, can be a million reasons. Just trying my best to avoid any future problems.

Check and make sure you have the correct MAP/IAT sensor. I tried a T7 sensor on my T3 and the car gained a lot of low end power, but it was very wonky. Never threw a CEL. swapped back to a T3 sensor and drove smooth as before.

TCV isn't a bad idea to replace now, same as the wastegate and CBV is you plan on have it tuned later.

Those parts don't make the engine run hot. That would be a loss of coolant, a stuck thermostat or a failed radiator fan. If any of the turbo components fail, I think they could either make the car run rich (will actually run cooler) or just melt pistons (skipping the head gasket failure directly)

Yeah, you're probably right. No melted pistons. They were in good shape, minus the severe carbon depositing on a couple of them. That could absolutely be related to a bad tune or low octane like you said.

I think the biggest issue here was having an higher compression ratio than the ECU is accounting for.......

I bet you're right. E-mailed Hilton about it this morning. Hopefully he gets back to me.

BTW, is this the MAP/IAT sensor (31355463) you're talking about? FCP says they're compatible with both 2009 C30 w/ B5254T5 and 2013 S60 w/ B5254T12.

Volvo MAP Sensor - Bosch 0261230295

Volvo MAP Sensor - Bosch 0261230295

www.fcpeuro.com

 

[SwedishDoomGoblin]

Any thoughts on this? Would just leave it at factory settings as they say its shipped with:

Elevate Volvo P3 T5 K04 Turbo Wastegate Actuator (2.5L Turbo Five Cylinder ONLY)

Direct, bolt-in replacement for the factory K04 turbo For 2.5L Five Cylinder T5 engine ONLY Fast acting actuator for optimal boost pressure control Excellent for use on both stock and tuned vehicles Will not modify the emission or vacuum system in any way Premium construction of billet aluminum...

www.elevatecars.com

Have a turbo boost pressure solenoid valve and map sensor in my FCP shopping cart too. Can't seem to find a wastegate actuator from FCP, IPD, dealer or elsewhere for some reason. Guess the factory just sells the entire turbo assembly?

 

[TheXC30]

You will benefit more from a larger intercooler to keep charge temps down in my opinion than upgrading the wastgate if you are keeping it at stock boost.
The TCV is plastic and can fail in a physical manner but If it looks like it's in good shape and is working then it's not the sort of item that would cause overheating. In an over boost situation your ECM will cut throttle as I saw when I had one line backwards on my TCV, huge boost spikes and then my throttle was limiting to about 8%.

 

[SwedishDoomGoblin]

You will benefit more from a larger intercooler to keep charge temps down in my opinion than upgrading the wastgate if you are keeping it at stock boost.
The TCV is plastic and can fail in a physical manner but If it looks like it's in good shape and is working then it's not the sort of item that would cause overheating. In an over boost situation your ECM will cut throttle as I saw when I had one line backwards on my TCV, huge boost spikes and then my throttle was limiting to about 8%.

Good point! A Do88 intercooler WAS one of the next things I wanted to tackle anyway. Does it make much difference in the temps the cylinder head ends up dealing with?:

Volvo Intercooler - do88 Performance ICM170

Volvo Intercooler - do88 Performance ICM170

www.fcpeuro.com

 

[TheXC30]

I have not seen empirical evidence that charge temps really effect head temps and the exhaust side of the head will always be hotter than the intake side but cutting intake temperatures to more consistent levels will also ease your fuel management taking place automatically.
I guess my point was that spending money on the wastegate actuator or TCV if they are currently functioning will not change your heat management at all. Inspect them for signs of failure but they are more than adequate for the stock tune.

Edit: My v50 has some unknown hotboi big pressure tune from a previous owner and no heat issues with stock TCM and wastegate but thats only possible because of the big Evolve intercooler.

 

[SwedishDoomGoblin]

I have not seen empirical evidence that charge temps really effect head temps and the exhaust side of the head will always be hotter than the intake side but cutting intake temperatures to more consistent levels will also ease your fuel management taking place automatically.
I guess my point was that spending money on the wastegate actuator or TCV if they are currently functioning will not change your heat management at all. Inspect them for signs of failure but they are more than adequate for the stock tune.

Edit: My v50 has some unknown hotboi big pressure tune from a previous owner and no heat issues with stock TCM and wastegate but thats only possible because of the big Evolve intercooler.

Interesting. Ironically, even though the exhaust side of the heads IS what runs hotter, in THIS case the intake side was actually more warped. At least in regard to the camshaft journal. I think you're right. If things are working, then great. Maybe I just leave it alone for the time being. Perhaps I need to focus on improving cooling function all the way around.

On the plus side, we're FINALLY out of the triple digits here. I bet that's why it made it through the winter just fine for last owner and me through the rest of Spring, but it was on one of the most brutal days of the summer when the car said "ENOUGH" and puked on me. Car's readout was saying it was like 115 or something. Of course it's when I have little ones in car seat and I'm stuck waiting for a tow. That was awful.

 

[paradoxicallymodified]

Any thoughts on this? Would just leave it at factory settings as they say its shipped with:

Elevate Volvo P3 T5 K04 Turbo Wastegate Actuator (2.5L Turbo Five Cylinder ONLY)

Direct, bolt-in replacement for the factory K04 turbo For 2.5L Five Cylinder T5 engine ONLY Fast acting actuator for optimal boost pressure control Excellent for use on both stock and tuned vehicles Will not modify the emission or vacuum system in any way Premium construction of billet aluminum...

www.elevatecars.com

Have a turbo boost pressure solenoid valve and map sensor in my FCP shopping cart too. Can't seem to find a wastegate actuator from FCP, IPD, dealer or elsewhere for some reason. Guess the factory just sells the entire turbo assembly?

TurboSmart is top notch

 

[Facusan]

+1 to the upgraded intercooler. It really helps to keep IAT waaaay cooler than the stock IC. Plus, after installation turbo got a little bit louder and now I can hear the whistle while driving.

 

[SwedishDoomGoblin]

+1 to the upgraded intercooler. It really helps to keep IAT waaaay cooler than the stock IC. Plus, after installation turbo got a little bit louder and now I can hear the whistle while driving.

Ok. That does it. I'm gonna order it. Being that I had such extreme warpage on the INTAKE side of my head, I'm wondering if we may have just found the root cause to this car's woes! Heat soak was quite noticeable on hot days, and this summer was particularly sucky.

SO, with this thing having a T12 motor from an S60 which has a higher compression ratio, I'm wondering if the puny stock intercooler wasn't able to keep up efficiently enough, thus increasing IAT, thus leading to head warpage, and ultimately head gasket failure. I'm thinking the Do88 upgrade should keep those temps down! Perhaps a "performance" radiator upgrade should be in the conversation as well.

This all said, I think step 1 is get my car running, period. I can swap out the turbo wastegate actuator since that's easy right now, and do the intercooler stuff after the fact since that's all in front of the engine anyway.

 

[SwedishDoomGoblin]

TurboSmart is top notch

Good to know! I'll take your word for it. Think I'll order it.

 

[Facusan]

Ok. That does it. I'm gonna order it. Being that I had such extreme warpage on the INTAKE side of my head, I'm wondering if we may have just found the root cause to this car's woes! Heat soak was quite noticeable on hot days, and this summer was particularly sucky.

SO, with this thing having a T12 motor from an S60 which has a higher compression ratio, I'm wondering if the puny stock intercooler wasn't able to keep up efficiently enough, thus increasing IAT, thus leading to head warpage, and ultimately head gasket failure. I'm thinking the Do88 upgrade should keep those temps down! Perhaps a "performance" radiator upgrade should be in the conversation as well.

This all said, I think step 1 is get my car running, period. I can swap out the turbo wastegate actuator since that's easy right now, and do the intercooler stuff after the fact since that's all in front of the engine anyway.

No, no, no. The warpage on the intake side was caused by the engine running without coolant. There's no way that high IAT's could cause that. The engine would have to breath basically FIRE.

When the ECU sees high IAT's it will pull timing, causing the loss of power to reduce the chances of knocking (assuming you have the correct engine). An upgraded intercooler will not give you power. It will help you to mantain the current power for longer time, until it heat soaks.

These cars don't need an upgraded radiator. The factory one it's more than up to the task. There are many forum members making more than twice the stock power on these engines while still using the stock radiator. Don't waste your money there.

Yes, +1 to get the car running first, do all the preventive manteinance now that all parts are easy to reach. And until you get the ECU with the correct tune for the T12, DO NOT run it on regular. Make sure you fill up with premium fuel (93) ONLY. Try to avoid having the "need for speed", but if it becomes impossible, make sure add octane booster to the tank before.

 

[CASwede]

No, no, no. The warpage on the intake side was caused by the engine running without coolant. There's no way that high IAT's could cause that. The engine would have to breath basically FIRE.

When the ECU sees high IAT's it will pull timing, causing the loss of power to reduce the chances of knocking (assuming you have the correct engine). An upgraded intercooler will not give you power. It will help you to mantain the current power for longer time, until it heat soaks.

These cars don't need an upgraded radiator. The factory one it's more than up to the task. There are many forum members making more than twice the stock power on these engines while still using the stock radiator. Don't waste your money there.

Yes, +1 to get the car running first, do all the preventive manteinance now that all parts are easy to reach. And until you get the ECU with the correct tune for the T12, DO NOT run it on regular. Make sure you fill up with premium fuel (93) ONLY. Try to avoid having the "need for speed", but if it becomes impossible, make sure add octane booster to the tank before.

.
+1 Premium fuel (93) ONLY. While at it a Castrol or Liqui Moly 0W-40 or 5W-40 is also good insurance.

.

 

[SwedishDoomGoblin]

No, no, no. The warpage on the intake side was caused by the engine running without coolant. There's no way that high IAT's could cause that. The engine would have to breath basically FIRE.

When the ECU sees high IAT's it will pull timing, causing the loss of power to reduce the chances of knocking (assuming you have the correct engine). An upgraded intercooler will not give you power. It will help you to mantain the current power for longer time, until it heat soaks.

These cars don't need an upgraded radiator. The factory one it's more than up to the task. There are many forum members making more than twice the stock power on these engines while still using the stock radiator. Don't waste your money there.

Yes, +1 to get the car running first, do all the preventive manteinance now that all parts are easy to reach. And until you get the ECU with the correct tune for the T12, DO NOT run it on regular. Make sure you fill up with premium fuel (93) ONLY. Try to avoid having the "need for speed", but if it becomes impossible, make sure add octane booster to the tank before.

Oh, I see. That makes sense. Ok, then. Will keep factory radiator. After I get the tune figured out, think I'm safe to get back to spirited driving?

+1 Premium fuel (93) ONLY. While at it a Castrol or Liqui Moly 0W-40 or 5W-40 is also good insurance.

Oh, for sure. I ALWAYS only ran 93 octane anyway, but there's no telling what the previous owners did. Damage was likely done by the time I got the car. As soon as I got it, I only ran premium fuel and did an oil change to Motul right off the bat. After I perform the post surgery engine flush using some cheap-o oil, I'll be refilling it with Liqui-Moly Special Tec B FE 5w30, but will probably switch to Special Tec V after I use this batch up that I already bought.

 

[Facusan]

Oh, I see. That makes sense. Ok, then. Will keep factory radiator. After I get the tune figured out, think I'm safe to get back to spirited driving?

Yes, by the time you get the final custom tune done. You can have fun with it.

Please keep us updated. I’m really interested to know how the T12 performs. I’ve been doing some parts cross compatibility between 5 cylinder whiteblock engines and found the T12 has different parts that could be used on older engines. I’m curious to know if those could be used to upgrade the T3 and T7 engines.

 

[SwedishDoomGoblin]

Yes, by the time you get the final custom tune done. You can have fun with it.

Please keep us updated. I’m really interested to know how the T12 performs. I’ve been doing some parts cross compatibility between 5 cylinder whiteblock engines and found the T12 has different parts that could be used on older engines. I’m curious to know if those could be used to upgrade the T3 and T7 engines.

True. The parts backwards compatibility really does seem to be the case! Don't know if there's any real difference, but that's what I'm seeing in many instances.

As far as performance goes, will definitely let you know after I get the tune figured out. Planning on putting it on a dyno to do a baseline assessment. BEFORE the head gasket failure, it really did perform pretty impressively. Haven't heard back from Hilton yet and I still haven't found anybody locally who can help me out. I'm wondering if I should start thinking about going the VDASH route. Nice thing about that one at least is I can go from tune to tune and back to stock pretty easily I believe. Only problem is I still can't figure out if I can apply a tune meant for a T12 to this C30 ECU. Every single local tuner (over a dozen so far) I've talked to says they have no way of interfacing with our Volvos to map anything or apply a tune.

I'm actually pulling myself back from turbo stuff right now. The wastegate actuator moves fine when I tried moving it by hand, and the TCV I can do later I guess, although there may very well be an issue there. I guess I just want to get it RUNNING before spending any more money and then use Vida to do some datalogging and see how things are going to begin with. Making sure I'm not losing any coolant from some other random spot I missed. Haha. Since I got my head back today, I'm planning on attacking it this weekend. Wish me luck!

 

[CASwede]

Oh, I see. That makes sense. Ok, then. Will keep factory radiator. After I get the tune figured out, think I'm safe to get back to spirited driving?

Oh, for sure. I ALWAYS only ran 93 octane anyway, but there's no telling what the previous owners did. Damage was likely done by the time I got the car. As soon as I got it, I only ran premium fuel and did an oil change to Motul right off the bat. After I perform the post surgery engine flush using some cheap-o oil, I'll be refilling it with Liqui-Moly Special Tec B FE 5w30, but will probably switch to Special Tec V after I use this batch up that I already bought.

The turbos are way too hot for 5W-30. The lower the first number the better the flow on start up in cold weather whereas the higher the second number the higher the heat it can withstand. It's all about the additive package. If you have a fleet of various makes a good SN or SN Plus should cover most vehicles except if it's under warranty. My 2020 Tiguan uses a newer oil then the 2019 Atlas V6 4Motion (brother's now). Only a few oil companies have it and it's 0W-20. That's way too thin for a 2.0 Turbo. Keep in mind manufacturers many time use a thinner oil in order to meet EPA standards. A thicker oil, when the motor is new will reduce the mileage some but in reality it's better for the motor in the long run.

With older cars best to use a 0W-40 if you see snow and hot summers or else the 5W-40 is fine. Change every 6 months or 5K miles whichever comes first or at the beginning of summer and then winter. Cheap insurance and the mileage gains with fresher oil offsets the bi-annual oil change cost.

.

 

[Facusan]

I don't think you will find people in your area that can tune these cars properly. There aren't many people capable of doing it........

With older cars best to use a 0W-40 if you see snow and hot summers or else the 5W-40 is fine. Change every 6 months or 5K miles whichever comes first or at the beginning of summer and then winter. Cheap insurance and the mileage gains with fresher oil offsets the bi-annual oil change cost.

+1. I use 5W-40. Which I think it's perfect for the temperatures in my area.

 

[SwedishDoomGoblin]

The turbos are way too hot for 5W-30. The lower the first number the better the flow on start up in cold weather whereas the higher the second number the higher the heat it can withstand. It's all about the additive package.

Really? 5W30's what the manual calls for, and up until recently it's what the liqui-moly and motul oil finder tools recommended too. However, that's changed. I just ran the searches again and now Liqui Moly recommends their Special Tec V 0W30, and Motul recommends their 8100 Eco-Nergy 0W30. And I JUST bought my LM last month based on their recommendation. Doh! Well, temps are dropping finally so hopefully I should be good with it anyway. It never really freezes here, so probably won't need the 0W. I used to run that when I lived up North, though. Might switch to 0W40 before next summer, though. I'm religious with my oil changes at least.