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Have to carry a canoe and not sure where to tie down the front and back of the canoe. There seem to be no "hooks" underneath the front or rear bumper. I understand that tieing down is needed when the canoe hangs over. You can evensee in the canoe holder "video" on the Volvo accessories website.<p>Thanks.
 

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Re: Where to tie down the front and back of a canoe (mrkhanman)

The easy way is to use front and rear tow eyebolts in the bumper attach points. One bolt's in the back with the jack kit, then you can buy an extra from Volvo.<p>Tom.<br>
 

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Re: Where to tie down the front and back of a canoe (mrkhanman)

If you would like to see the tow hooks in action, securing a canoe... go to this thread and take a look at the photos of the tow hooks on XC70's being used to secure a canoe.<p><A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=60500" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=60500</A><p><br>William
 

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Consider a bit of split (lengthwise) rubber fuel hose to keep the ropes from abrading the paint.<p>Jack
 

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Re: Where to tie down the front and back of a canoe (mrkhanman)

For short, non-highway trips I don't bother with front/rear ties. For longer trips I use the rear hitch (which you may not have) with a Yakima tie-down, and the front grill with a nylon boat strap. The grill is plastic but the strap does not exert much force. The front of the hood has clear protective material so chaffing is not a problem. This setup has worked well for scores of trips.<p>I tried the tow-hook up front once and it was a bother to install and remove, and it required a long rope (the strap I like to use did not work).<p><IMG SRC="http://idisk.mac.com/main_street/Public/canoe-XC90.jpg" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: Where to tie down the front and back of a canoe (XC-Ski)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>XC-Ski</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The grill is plastic but the strap does not exert much force.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>That is true so long as you are not moving. Once you get to highway speeds and the wind start to push the boat, it may easily top a hurricane force wind...<p>Have you never seen those people carrying mattresses over their car?
 

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Re: Where to tie down the front and back of a canoe (ig_mb)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>ig_mb</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That is true so long as you are not moving. Once you get to highway speeds and the wind start to push the boat, it may easily top a hurricane force wind...<p>Have you never seen those people carrying mattresses over their car?</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Ha, ha. A few differences between a mattress and a canoe besides the flotation. The canoe is rigid, aerodynamic, and held securely in gunwale brackets by boat straps. The front and rear ties are mostly for added security and take little of the force themselves. I've traveled a few thousand miles with this arrangement, including in stiff crosswinds, and the canoe has not budged (except sometimes on rough, unpaved forest roads where I will stop and check the straps before getting back on the highway). I also have the load bars spread apart to support the canoe; with a small sedan where the bars are close together the canoe might need the front and rear ties for balance.
 

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Re: Where to tie down the front and back of a canoe (XC-Ski)

Ha, ha, until you have a tie down malfunction, then that canoe may be airborne. Use at least three, preferrably 4 tie downs, so that if any one should come loose, that canoe is not going anywhere. <p>While somewhat aerodynamic on the outside, a canoe isn't so aerodynamic as air rushes over the hood of the car and under the boat, squeezing between the inner hull and the roof. A canoe is also a significant addition in frontal area and load. Maybe it's just me, but I almost always tied down with 4 ropes/staps; two over the top and one each, front/rear. I want to know that if I roll my car, that canoe is not coming off. The potential damage to the boat(s) and or vehicle if it gets loose, was not worth risking for a few minutes of tie-down. Now there was that time with 6-7 ropes securing 4 canoes and 5 kayaks on a home made 104 inch wide 2x4 rack. . . . but only for a short shuttle. <p>I'm with ig_mb here. I feel that you are tempting fate on every trip. <p>For the front, use a rope loop to reach your strap. Tying to a plastic grill is not much better than no tie at all.<p>Sorry for my being so blunt, but I feel pretty strongly about this issue. If that boat gets loose, it could damage a lot more than your car.<p>Jack
 

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Re: Where to tie down the front and back of a canoe (jib)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>jib</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ha, ha, until you have a tie down malfunction, then that canoe may be airborne. Use at least three, preferrably 4 tie downs, so that if any one should come loose, that canoe is not going anywhere.</TD></TR></TABLE> <br>Operator error is far more likely than equipment failure. Fortunately, the straps let me know <i>immediately</i> if something is wrong--amazing how much noise a slightly loose strap can make. One cross-strap is actually enough to hold our canoe in place although I use the standard 4 tie-downs for highway trips. <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>jib</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">While somewhat aerodynamic on the outside, a canoe isn't so aerodynamic as air rushes over the hood of the car and under the boat, squeezing between the inner hull and the roof. A canoe is also a significant addition in frontal area and load.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Every boat and rack configuration are probably a little different but ours does not have much air flow under the boat. Sticking my hand up through the open moonroof shows that, as have the many spiders hitching a ride. I'd worry more about the wing effect of air over the outside causing lift. <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>jib</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I want to know that if I roll my car, that canoe is not coming off.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>I have a hard time believing a canoe would stay on in a rollover no matter how many tie-downs it has. The entire rack would probably be ripped off.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>jib</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm with ig_mb here. I feel that you are tempting fate on every trip. <p>For the front, use a rope loop to reach your strap. Tying to a plastic grill is not much better than no tie at all.<p>Sorry for my being so blunt, but I feel pretty strongly about this issue. If that boat gets loose, it could damage a lot more than your car.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>I like games of chance but I'm not a gambler. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0"> The cross-straps are the critical ones with our setup. The front & rear tie-downs are insurance. Your setup may be different (foam blocks and ropes for example) and require more tie points.<p>BTW, it is ironic how many people I see who spend many minutes creating elaborate front & rear rigging and then attaching it to the little eyelets on the points of the canoe. On many boats these eyelets are intended for docking only and will rip off if any significant force is applied.
 

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OK, I feel better. I always figured that my front and top ropes did most of the work. <p>rollover - While this was more a figure of speech, given tight fore/aft lines, I suspect most canoes would flatten against the roof. Fortunately XC90's "don't" roll over. (Again, a figure of speech)<p>Tie points - absolutely right. I paddled white water boats and used the little short 8 inch thwarts in the bow and stern for tie downs. I've always used roof racks (no blocks, blankets, etc.) as they permit a lot better tie down too.<p>Enjoy! I need to get the spiders out of my old Blue Hole OCA and hit some rivers soon.<p>Jack
 

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Re: Where to tie down the front and back of a canoe (jib)

We do mostly flat-water paddling. Have had the boat out only 3 times this year. The higher lakes have become accessible in just the last couple of weeks because of snow. <p>My impression of the front & rear tie-downs are that they mostly provide balance if the rack span is short (say, under 4') and help keep the boat centered if not using rack brackets. In the latter case it would seem that 2 lines forming the sides of a triangle would be needed; just one line, such as to the tow hook, would pull the boat sideways. The only way I know of to attach 2 lines to the XC90 is underneath somewhere (ugh) or with those little nylon hood ties (never tried them because they look funky). <p>Happy paddling. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: Where to tie down the front and back of a canoe (XC-Ski)

Good to see some Canoers on this site. I use a Yakama rack with canoe holders. As a whitewater boater, my boats are short. I never tie down the back. I use a strap on each cross bar. In the front, I have attached 1" webbing loop to a fender bolt on each side of the car under the hood. I then use a strap and carabineers to the canoe grab loop or front thwart. I really only use the front tie down, if I am going on a long highway trip. If not, I just tuck the fender webbing under the hood.<p><IMG SRC="http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/ALJ_01/xc-90withboats.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>I also have friends that will put cam straps from a couple of thwarts, front and back to the cross bars underneath the boat to keep it from moving forward or backwards.<p>Jack, what class of whitewater do you like to paddle? If you or other whitewater canoers ever come to Colorado, give me a shout.
 

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Re: Where to tie down the front and back of a canoe (alj)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>alj</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jack, what class of whitewater do you like to paddle?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>It appears that I'm the overly cautious tie down guy. <blush><p>If you know my boat at all (Blue Hole OCA), you would also know I'm currently a bit out of date. <blush> I used to paddle mostly 3-4, with some 5's, but in a 16 foot open boat, as you know, they can be a bit hairy. I do however paddle more like a kayaker, than a canoeist, as I've always paddled with decked boaters. I stop and play the rapids hard, surfing big holes, etc.; rarely just paddling through them. I also owned a C-1 for years. It was a lot of fun, but I preferred the open boat. I had a bullet proof roll with the C-1 and maybe 50% with the open boat, if it was stuffed with air bags. Looking at your Mad River boats, you've obviously had some fun with them - not many people add grunch strips until they are ready for them. <p>Before we moved out west, we skied at Mad River Glen (Vt.) several weekends a month. While I stopped into the MR canoe factory several times (it was behind the local shopping center strip in Waitsfield) I never bought another boat. MR does make great boats though. They, and others, eventually put Blue Hole under with their manufacturing efficiencies. I don't know how long you've been in the sport, but the OCA was the boat that spawned all the expanded ABS, aluminum trimmed boats. <p>Since having the kids, paddling has essentially ceased. We took them down some 1-2's when they were really small, and they had a blast, but with everything else going on with a young family, the boat hangs, upside down, under the deck, collecting spider webs for now.<p>I'd have to get back into it first, but one of these days, I'd like to run that man made park in the Boulder area though. . . . . . <p>Racks - I am that "old school" guy. I used generic uprights and a set of 8 1/2 foot wide 2x4's (legal maximum width), which attached to the cross bars, allowing me to carry 3-4 boats and shuttle a lot more than that on the roof. I distinctly remember 3 open boats and 7 kayaks up there for a shuttle. Damn, that car stunk for weeks after getting all of those stinky paddlers off my cloth seats. Lot's of happy times. . . . . <p>Keep leaning into rocks,<p>Jack
 

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Re: Where to tie down the front and back of a canoe (jib)

Jack, <p>One thing for sure, they do not make boats like they used to in the day of your OCA. C1 too much pain for my old knees!<p>The skid plates are on those boats because of Boulder Creek, my home run. When it is flowing the ledge drops are very hard on stems. I have pretty much hung up the Outrage for only big water runs. I now paddle an Ocoee, shorter, quicker turning with more rocker. Boulder Creek season is short due to the damn dam. The creek usually, runs around 1st or 2nd week in June for a two to three week season. However, it requires a good front range snow season to run.<p>
 

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Re: Where to tie down the front and back of a canoe (alj)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>alj</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jack, <p>One thing for sure, they do not make boats like they used to in the day of your OCA. C1 too much pain for my old knees!</TD></TR></TABLE><p>The OCA is a Battle Axe, albeit a bit heavy.<p>C1 - Ok, so it was a bit hard to walk for the first 5 minutes after being in the torture chamber, I mean boat, for an hour or so. My knees were fine. It was my ankles that were brutalized. Open boats rock. On the other hand, the C1 was a wicked fast turning boat, very light and fast, hence lots of fun. <p>I helped teach a lot of paddling classes; just assisting rescue when it was mostly kayakers. It was a lot of fun showing the novice kayakers that canoes, both open and decked were more than able to paddle with them. A lot of those folks were stunned to see a 16 foot canoe ferrying, nailing tiny eddies and surfing holes better than they could. Damn, I really miss paddling.<p>Boulder Creek - Sounds like a nice technical run. but Denver sounds like a less than optimal paddleing center. 8^( Having been there a lot in the past three years (I built 13 new banks there before changing jobs) it seems as though paddling would be a oportunistic sport. Grab it when you can. <p>Enjoy!<p>Jack
 
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