...besides the original cost of the car and gas mileage.
Thanks
Thanks
What, if any, are the andvantages of 2-wheel drive over AWD?
JimiRayClapton
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...besides the original cost of the car and gas mileage.
Thanks
Thanks
Re: What, if any, are the andvantages of 2-wheel drive over AWD? (JimiRayClapton)
no bevel gears to replace, better acceleration, no worries about tires having to be exactly the same height to keep from trashing your bevel gears, lighter weight by about 300lbs.
no bevel gears to replace, better acceleration, no worries about tires having to be exactly the same height to keep from trashing your bevel gears, lighter weight by about 300lbs.
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Interesting. My current cars, a Volvo S60R and an Audi allroad, both have AWD and I was wondering if my next car really needed AWD functionality. (We don't get too much snow here.) Something to consider.
Thanks
Thanks
Re: What, if any, are the andvantages of 2-wheel drive over AWD? (JimiRayClapton)
I've lived in the Buffalo infamous snow belt since '85 and I can tell you that I'd readly only wish for AWD maybe 5 times a year. The rest of the time I am perfectly content with FWD and an excellent set of winter tires. Here are the main reasons for me for staying with FWD:
TCO is clearly lower for the FWD Cars (here is a rough estimate):
- Initial costs for the FWD cars is about $1800 less
- Fuel savings would be at least $300 for the average driver. In my experience the LPT 2.4 FWD gets about 3 MPG better mileage than a comparable XC, the R uses even more fuel.
- Maintenance should be at least $200 less per year over the lifetime of the car (between the bevel gear that is very expensive, and rear wheel bearings that don't seem to last too long either).
- Additional Tire maintenance / headaches would maybe add about $100 per year.
Non-financial differences:
- A LP turbo FWD will be noticebly faster than a standard XC. Ofcouse the "R" will be much faster, but it also costs a lot more.
- The FWD cars handling better than the XC. Again, the "R" are better, but come with quite a premium cost.
- You can get the car with a stick shift (base or high pressure turbo) if you want, that is not an option with the XC.
Can anyone think of anything else I left off? AWD is nice, but I just can't justify the cost of me.
Happy Swedish Motoring,
André
I've lived in the Buffalo infamous snow belt since '85 and I can tell you that I'd readly only wish for AWD maybe 5 times a year. The rest of the time I am perfectly content with FWD and an excellent set of winter tires. Here are the main reasons for me for staying with FWD:
TCO is clearly lower for the FWD Cars (here is a rough estimate):
- Initial costs for the FWD cars is about $1800 less
- Fuel savings would be at least $300 for the average driver. In my experience the LPT 2.4 FWD gets about 3 MPG better mileage than a comparable XC, the R uses even more fuel.
- Maintenance should be at least $200 less per year over the lifetime of the car (between the bevel gear that is very expensive, and rear wheel bearings that don't seem to last too long either).
- Additional Tire maintenance / headaches would maybe add about $100 per year.
Non-financial differences:
- A LP turbo FWD will be noticebly faster than a standard XC. Ofcouse the "R" will be much faster, but it also costs a lot more.
- The FWD cars handling better than the XC. Again, the "R" are better, but come with quite a premium cost.
- You can get the car with a stick shift (base or high pressure turbo) if you want, that is not an option with the XC.
Can anyone think of anything else I left off? AWD is nice, but I just can't justify the cost of me.
Happy Swedish Motoring,
André
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14,894 Posts
Re: What, if any, are the andvantages of 2-wheel drive over AWD? (heavyiron)
Only the case on some AWD systems.
| Quote, originally posted by heavyiron » |
| no bevel gears to replace, better acceleration, no worries about tires having to be exactly the same height to keep from trashing your bevel gears, lighter weight by about 300lbs. |
Only the case on some AWD systems.
Re: What, if any, are the andvantages of 2-wheel drive over AWD? (heavyiron)
For anyone in a "snowbelt" area, tests have been conducted on this question, and if a 2-wheel front drive vehicle is equipped with winter tires on ALL four wheels, it has similar traction power of an AWD vehicle in all circumstances except in hilly places, where the load on the front end of the 2-wheel is "lifted" due to the incline, but then, not so with a RWD vehicle with similar winters.
![Image]()
For anyone in a "snowbelt" area, tests have been conducted on this question, and if a 2-wheel front drive vehicle is equipped with winter tires on ALL four wheels, it has similar traction power of an AWD vehicle in all circumstances except in hilly places, where the load on the front end of the 2-wheel is "lifted" due to the incline, but then, not so with a RWD vehicle with similar winters.
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Re: What, if any, are the andvantages of 2-wheel drive over AWD? (jone)
I strongly disagree. AWD makes a HUGE difference in the winter.
Stop by some time and I'll be more than happy to take you out for a demo...
![Image]()
| Quote, originally posted by jone » |
| For anyone in a "snowbelt" area, tests have been conducted on this question, and if a 2-wheel front drive vehicle is equipped with winter tires on ALL four wheels, it has similar traction power of an AWD vehicle in all circumstances except in hilly places, where the load on the front end of the 2-wheel is "lifted" due to the incline, but then, not so with a RWD vehicle with similar winters.
|
Stop by some time and I'll be more than happy to take you out for a demo...
I'm with BEJinfbk, 2WD with winter tires cannot compare to AWD with winter tires on snow and ice. Difference is day and nite. I lived in Canada 1/2 of my life and did some ice racing in my younger years. Have used FWD, RWD, and AWD. FWD and RWD can be competative between themselves. AWD rules.
Re: What, if any, are the andvantages of 2-wheel drive over AWD? (JimiRayClapton)
Awd has better off the line acceleration because it grips better and doesn't burnout as much but two wheel drive is better acceleration from a roll especially on the interstate.
Awd has better off the line acceleration because it grips better and doesn't burnout as much but two wheel drive is better acceleration from a roll especially on the interstate.
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Re: What, if any, are the andvantages of 2-wheel drive over AWD? (schwatd)
Ummm...We're discussing winter driving here...
With 2WD you have NO acceleration if you have no traction...
And if you wish to play from a roll, I think the AWD still has the upper hand on ice.
My demo offer stands. It's only -15 today. Swing on by! We'll do lunch.
![Image]()
| Quote, originally posted by schwatd » |
| Awd has better off the line acceleration because it grips better and doesn't burnout as much but two wheel drive is better acceleration from a roll especially on the interstate. |
With 2WD you have NO acceleration if you have no traction...
And if you wish to play from a roll, I think the AWD still has the upper hand on ice.
My demo offer stands. It's only -15 today. Swing on by! We'll do lunch.
Re: What, if any, are the andvantages of 2-wheel drive over AWD? (BEJinFbk)
The traction tests for winter tires on 2WD vs. AWD that I referred to on my 1-10 post, was conducted by Car & Driver magazine as posted in the May 1999 issue. Results are for an Audi A6 in both modes of tranny using Bridgestone Blizzak tires, 195/65QR's on 15" steel wheels--AS stock tires
195/65HR-15 Goodyear Eagle LS
Weight dist. on the Audi A6--61% front; 39% rear.
Results as follows:
1. 2WD Winter tires--was not able to ascend the 30%--17 degree grade from a standstill, but conquered the 10%--6 degree, and the 15%--9 degree hills.
2. Braking--straight line on snow---181.1feet/ AWD vs 189.1 feet/2WD
3. Acceleration--straight line on snow--2WD Winter tires 0--50mph/9.7 sec
30% quicker than AS tires
--AWD AS tires 0--50mph/7.6
4. Handling--425 ft. diameter snow-packed skidpad with traction control
and stability systems switched off.
2WD Winter tires--0.34 lateral g's; AS tires--0.28 g's
AWD Winter tires--0.34 lateral g's; AS tires--0.31 g's
5. Slalom--512 foot course with six gates with wider and further spacing
to allow for an increase in acceleration in the running, and a
reverse run to allow for deceleration and braking as required.
2WD Winter tires--29.42 sec
AWD Winter tires--30.60 sec
Hope that all the above data will resolve any questions and opinions!
![Image]()
The traction tests for winter tires on 2WD vs. AWD that I referred to on my 1-10 post, was conducted by Car & Driver magazine as posted in the May 1999 issue. Results are for an Audi A6 in both modes of tranny using Bridgestone Blizzak tires, 195/65QR's on 15" steel wheels--AS stock tires
195/65HR-15 Goodyear Eagle LS
Weight dist. on the Audi A6--61% front; 39% rear.
Results as follows:
1. 2WD Winter tires--was not able to ascend the 30%--17 degree grade from a standstill, but conquered the 10%--6 degree, and the 15%--9 degree hills.
2. Braking--straight line on snow---181.1feet/ AWD vs 189.1 feet/2WD
3. Acceleration--straight line on snow--2WD Winter tires 0--50mph/9.7 sec
30% quicker than AS tires
--AWD AS tires 0--50mph/7.6
4. Handling--425 ft. diameter snow-packed skidpad with traction control
and stability systems switched off.
2WD Winter tires--0.34 lateral g's; AS tires--0.28 g's
AWD Winter tires--0.34 lateral g's; AS tires--0.31 g's
5. Slalom--512 foot course with six gates with wider and further spacing
to allow for an increase in acceleration in the running, and a
reverse run to allow for deceleration and braking as required.
2WD Winter tires--29.42 sec
AWD Winter tires--30.60 sec
Hope that all the above data will resolve any questions and opinions!
Re: What, if any, are the andvantages of 2-wheel drive over AWD? (BEJinFbk)
I was answering the original question. Which had NOTHING to do with winter driving. And no, from a roll especially a higher one in a higher gear two wheel drive, especially rwd beats an awd car assuming there is no drastic difference in hp. And it would have to be a big difference.
I was answering the original question. Which had NOTHING to do with winter driving. And no, from a roll especially a higher one in a higher gear two wheel drive, especially rwd beats an awd car assuming there is no drastic difference in hp. And it would have to be a big difference.
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Re: What, if any, are the andvantages of 2-wheel drive over AWD? (schwatd)
The three posts prior to yours were relating to "Snowbelt" conditions.
Perhaps I misinterperated your comment based on the direction of the thread at that point.
Where I live, AWD is an advantage and winter conditions apply.
As for dry pavement, it's a no brainer. My car is a sled...2WD rules.
You Win.
![Image]()
The three posts prior to yours were relating to "Snowbelt" conditions.
Perhaps I misinterperated your comment based on the direction of the thread at that point.
Where I live, AWD is an advantage and winter conditions apply.
As for dry pavement, it's a no brainer. My car is a sled...2WD rules.
You Win.
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2,900 Posts
Re: What, if any, are the andvantages of 2-wheel drive over AWD? (jone)
I still disagree with this statement.
Hills, flats, corners, AWD just takes traction to a Whole Nutha Level.
One car in different modes does not an objective survey make.
It sounds quite like an engineer's report, not a real world comparison.
Having driven FWD, RWD, 4WD and AWD in all manner of conditions,
I still believe that for a passenger car, AWD Wins in the winter. http://********************/smile/emthup.gif
Let me know when you're coming and I'll pick you up at the airport.
![Image]()
| Quote, originally posted by jone » |
| For anyone in a "snowbelt" area, tests have been conducted on this question, and if a 2-wheel front drive vehicle is equipped with winter tires on ALL four wheels, it has similar traction power of an AWD vehicle in all circumstances except in hilly places, where the load on the front end of the 2-wheel is "lifted" due to the incline, but then, not so with a RWD vehicle with similar winters.
|
Hills, flats, corners, AWD just takes traction to a Whole Nutha Level.
One car in different modes does not an objective survey make.
It sounds quite like an engineer's report, not a real world comparison.
Having driven FWD, RWD, 4WD and AWD in all manner of conditions,
I still believe that for a passenger car, AWD Wins in the winter. http://********************/smile/emthup.gif
Let me know when you're coming and I'll pick you up at the airport.
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135 Posts
Re: What, if any, are the andvantages of 2-wheel drive over AWD? (BEJinFbk)
An advantage for FWD:
Every AWD car I have driven (Volvo and non Volvo) has - naturally - had more drivetrain inertia than FWD. This give FWD an advantage in the chauffeur-smooth-changes-stakes, especially for those of us who like manual gearboxes and clutches and when pressing on swiftly.
An advantage for FWD:
Every AWD car I have driven (Volvo and non Volvo) has - naturally - had more drivetrain inertia than FWD. This give FWD an advantage in the chauffeur-smooth-changes-stakes, especially for those of us who like manual gearboxes and clutches and when pressing on swiftly.
Re: What, if any, are the andvantages of 2-wheel drive over AWD? (JimiRayClapton)
4WD is banned in F1, so we don't know what they would be running if the rules allowed it. 4WD is allowed in the World Rally Championship and all the top cars are 4WD/AWD. If you want to go fast on dry, wet, snow, ice, gravel, or mud, 4WD is the answer (yeah, on dry pavement the torque split is biased 90% to the rear which is almost a RWD car but not completely).
You don't see many 2WD cars (FWD or RWD) winning WRC races!*
* yes, Citroen Csara 2WD cars did win 2 tarmac events several years ago (in 2002?) but they were lightweight cars that only ran those two tarmac events.
glsable
4WD is banned in F1, so we don't know what they would be running if the rules allowed it. 4WD is allowed in the World Rally Championship and all the top cars are 4WD/AWD. If you want to go fast on dry, wet, snow, ice, gravel, or mud, 4WD is the answer (yeah, on dry pavement the torque split is biased 90% to the rear which is almost a RWD car but not completely).
You don't see many 2WD cars (FWD or RWD) winning WRC races!*
* yes, Citroen Csara 2WD cars did win 2 tarmac events several years ago (in 2002?) but they were lightweight cars that only ran those two tarmac events.
glsable
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