[ChitownV]

As was eluded to early in this thread, what’s important is to get old fluid out and new fluid in to assess the shudder after new fluid. Hopefully, an improvement is felt so the OP can continue with further changing over the transmission fluid. There are people who help from direct experience with the XC90 TF-80SC transmission then there are those who don’t. The different methods have been discussed ad nauseum and not one person owns fluid change procedures.

With any changeover with new fluid, let’s hope the shudder is as simple as replacing old transmission fluid for the OP.

 

[ggleavitt]

Last post kind of "eluded" the point I was trying to make in that @Monocog007 was referring to D&F and @John C was referring to a pump out, neither of these the OP might have been aware of in detail. As the OP joined in 2003 (pretty cool, I'm 2005) and this is the first thread created in many years, I thought clarification might have been helpful since two different folks were speaking about two different things.

Repetition is key here at Swedespeed, as members come and go (or old members buy different vehicles) and it's important to repeat the obvious. I'm okay with that, even if it means the obvious to many of us gets rehashed.

Like you said @ChitownV , no one person owns any of this. It's a forum.

 

[ChitownV]

Yup, and it looks like the OP does his homework in searching.

Looking forward to hearing back from the OP so we don’t keep on repeating ad nauseum without knowing their status.

Thanks again. According to the "ultimate" thread my VIN requires JWS 3324.

Do I need to be high-maintenance and mention that to the shop?

Also, will anything JWS 3324 do, or does it need to be one of the four alternatives listed on that page (Volvo, Aisin, Idemitsu, Toyota)? Would I specify that to the shop, or bring my own fluid?

 

[pjc]

Ensure you or they buy the new fill plug and drain plug o-rings. I like to provide items like these so I know they were changed. Sometimes shops or techs will not change the o-rings and say it’s good enough because they don’t want to wait for extra parts if it’s not in stock with their local general supplier or a dealership has to special order it.

Are these standard o-rings, or are they peculiar, specific parts that they wouldn't likely have on hand? Would these need to be changed every time I take it in for a D&F (i.e. due to damage upon removal) or just the first time (i.e. due to age)?

To the OP- if you read around you’ll see that there are a couple ways to do a transmission fluid swap.
...
get the level checked so you know where you’re at before you button everything up (all as noted in numerous threads)

Thank you. Is the consensus here (chuckle) that both D&F and pump-out (NOT a pressure flush) are fine; the difference being D&F takes more iterations to get closer to complete fluid replacement, and pump-out is harder to do correctly (and thus may be hard to find & vet a shop)?

Also, how do they check/set the level when there's no dipstick? Is there something specific I should ask them to do, or will a shop do the right thing by default?

 

[ChitownV]

There are sets of o-rings that shops and the general public can buy, but sometimes the thickness, as well as the size, may not be perfect. The fill plug has an o-ring and that is specific. The drain & level o-rings, well I too would get those to ensure the correct fitment. Each time you do a drain/fill, these should be replaced since they get compressed.

The level is done underneath, thus why you need 2 o-rings (correction: 2 seals -> o-ring and seal washer) for the drain plug/level plug.
Watch this video and it shows how the level is completed. You will understand why the drain/fill work very well for a shop with a lift. No measuring, just check the temp and open the level plug.

 

[ChitownV]

Here, you can just buy these to ensure you have the small parts. The reason for a new fill plug is that it's the most important since if you drain fluid, you need to fill it back up. If the fill plug gets stripped on a drained transmission, then it makes for a big headache since you cannot drive it. However, if the drain plug gets stripped, there will still be fluid in the transmission. You can buy 2-3 sets of these so you are ready for the next times of the drain/fill.

Fill plug Volvo Transmission Fill Plug (XC90) - Genuine Volvo 30713217
Fill plug o-ring Volvo Transmission Fill Plug Seal - Genuine Volvo 30735186
Level plug o-ring Volvo Transmission Fitting O-Ring - OE Supplier 1233068
Drain seal Volvo Transmission Drain Plug Gasket - Genuine Volvo 30713220

 

[ChitownV]

Youtube and Swedespeed search are your friends. Here is another video made years ago on the drain/fill of the TF-80 transmissions.

 

[ggleavitt]

Level check is also in here somewhere as well as the video- The ULTIMATE Fluid Guide for the 6spd Aisin transmission TF-80SC in 3.2 and V8 engines | SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum , I would suggest the level check is important (peace of mind with the initial work), then you can be confident in future D&F by measuring in and out if you don't want to level check after that.

Consensus is as noted by @ChitownV , replace the fluid as you can. Some don't, some do, most agree that there's a benefit in replacing the fluid at some point in it's life. D&F is more gradual, you see this suggested sometimes for higher mileage models to make the swap more "gentle" for folks who don't want to go through all the hassle of a full pump out.

You'll see some preferring one method over the other (I'm a pump out), in your case given that someone else is doing the work, it may be easier to go the D&F path as that's more straight forward.

Six of one, half dozen of the other in my opinion.

Edit 053122- Add "consensus" para

 

[pjc]

Thank you, everyone.

Will the shop know to set the level at the proper temperature and then reset the oil change counter, or should I specify that as well? What about the shifting gears to mix the oil between D&F?

I don't want to create any resentment by micromanaging if I can avoid it.

 

[pjc]

Yes, as a 2013 you do need the 3324, but any of the fluids you listed that is 3324 specific will work.

Do I need to be specific about using one of those four brands (Volvo, Aisin, Idemitsu, Toyota), or is specifying JWS 3324 sufficient?

 

[pjc]

...However, if the drain plug gets stripped, there will still be fluid in the transmission...

Fill plug Volvo Transmission Fill Plug (XC90) - Genuine Volvo 30713217
Fill plug o-ring Volvo Transmission Fill Plug Seal - Genuine Volvo 30735186
Level plug o-ring Volvo Transmission Fitting O-Ring - OE Supplier 1233068
Drain seal Volvo Transmission Drain Plug Gasket - Genuine Volvo 30713220

What about the Volvo Drain Plug Seal? Is that simply the Volvo version of the OES level plug o-ring above?

And is the reason I don't need a drain plug now that I can drive without a (stripped) drain plug until I can get another one?

 

[ChitownV]

Okay, it sounds like you need a little more hand holding just to approach a shop. We cannot assume a shop will or will not know as we don’t know your shop or which one you choose. You can always educate the shop about something like the level plug as that is not always used in transmissions. Tell them the right temp for checking the level and inform them about the fluid counter. All modern shop level scan tools should have the transmission fluid counter reset. If they won’t do the fluid counter reset, that’s fine because what’s important is to change old fluid out for new fluid and getting it level.

Yes, be specific about one of the fluids. There are too many stories where shops use multi-spec transmission fluid and say it’s “fine.” I’ve seen shops spend more time trying to convince customers to use multi-spec than just ordering the right fluid. They may use words like, “I always use this…” You have to respond by staying firm on the right fluid. Ask them to keep the empty bottle for you. You can confirm the right fluid by these bottles.

I am not sure why you are so worried about micromanaging when giving a shop the right information for your specific application. It’s your vehicle in the end if things go awry and add you are paying for the service. Forget their feelings and get it done right. Shops don’t want customers coming back (edit: if there is an issue with the work) or writing negative reviews that affect business, so it’s fine to help educate them. Just be organized with the information so you are not all fragmented with info and procedure.

As far as the parts, they are what I wrote. Not sure what else to say about it. Did you watch the videos a couple times to understand how it works? It’s simple.

 

[pjc]

Shops don’t want customers coming back (edit: if there is an issue with the work) or writing negative reviews that affect business, so it’s fine to help educate them. Just be organized with the information so you are not all fragmented with info and procedure.

As far as the parts, they are what I wrote. Not sure what else to say about it. Did you watch the videos a couple times to understand how it works? It’s simple.

Thank you, that's very helpful. I suppose this is also a good way to vet the shop: if they're difficult about doing what I want, then there's a good chance they won't do what I want.

I did watch the video, and you're right, leveling is ingeniously simple. My question about parts came from looking through FCP's list of transmission seals for my car: they also listed a "drain plug seal," so I wasn't sure if that was Volvo's branded level plug o-ring, or whether I needed it along with the "drain plug gasket" since in your earlier comment you said I'll need "(2 seals -> o-ring and seal washer) for the drain plug/level plug".

 

[John C]

The level plug screws into (and seals against) the drain plug and the drain plug screws into the transmission case, so, two seals.

 

[pjc]

The level plug screws into (and seals against) the drain plug and the drain plug screws into the transmission case, so, two seals.

Yes, I understand there are two seals, that's not what I was asking, see below.

Here, you can just buy these to ensure you have the small parts. ...

Fill plug Volvo Transmission Fill Plug (XC90) - Genuine Volvo 30713217
Fill plug o-ring Volvo Transmission Fill Plug Seal - Genuine Volvo 30735186
Level plug o-ring Volvo Transmission Fitting O-Ring - OE Supplier 1233068
Drain seal Volvo Transmission Drain Plug Gasket - Genuine Volvo 30713220

As far as the parts, they are what I wrote.

I was asking about the difference between the:
1. Level plug o-ring Volvo Transmission Fitting O-Ring - OE Supplier 1233068 (you mentioned above) and the
2. the "Volvo Drain Plug Seal" (not mentioned by you) also listed at FCP.

To be safe, I ordered both, and it turns out the latter is indeed the "Genuine Volvo 1233068" so those two are interchangeable. The genuine Volvo version is very slightly thicker (9.7mm vs. 9.5mm), but both seem to be the same black rubber material and have a 6mm inner diameter. (The level plug's shaft is 6.3mm.)

My final question is about the drain plug gasket (30713220): it's metal?! I always thought gaskets were rubber and washers were metal? (For reference, it's 2mm thick, 20mm inner diameter, 27mm outer diameter.)

Edit: I lied, one more question: do they need to replace the fill plug, or do we simply want it on hand in case they strip the old one?

 

[ChitownV]

Yeah, I mentioned the drain plug seal, the 4th part listed. The metal washer is called many names, including seal, washer, gasket. Sometimes it’s a translation reason, could be a differentiation of purpose from other parts, sometimes it could be linked to some kind of history in naming the part.

Yes, new fill plug just in case, but also so you know it’s not stripped for the next drain/fill. It’s such a small piece, but can create a huge problem. Since the fill plug uses a rubber o-ring, it’s more difficult to tell how tight the plug is. With a metal crush washer, you can feel the washer crush easier, avoiding over tightening. Thus why to always use a new fill plug o-ring and a new fill plug.

 

[pjc]

Yes, new fill plug just in case, but also so you know it’s not stripped for the next drain/fill. It’s such a small piece, but can create a huge problem. Since the fill plug uses a rubber o-ring, it’s more difficult to tell how tight the plug is. With a metal crush washer, you can feel the washer crush easier, avoiding over tightening. Thus why to always use a new fill plug o-ring and a new fill plug.

Makes sense. Thanks, everyone, for your help! I've gotten the fluid changed.

Interestingly, afterwards the mechanic said he was able to drain and re-fill from the bottom port only (he had the adapters to let him do that), so he didn't end up replacing the fill plug or o-ring. I don't think that means he flushed it with high pressure, since I was specific about drain and fill, and he said that's what he did. What do you think?

Of course in the spirit of intermittent issues, the car wasn't shuddering right before the change, so I can't for sure say whether this has fixed or will fix the shudder. Fingers crossed...