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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
ROCKLEIGH, N.J. (July 3, 2012) - Volvo Cars of North America, LLC, (VCNA) reported U.S. sales of 7,107 units, a 0.1 percent increase from June 2011. Year-to-date sales are down 4.6 percent over the first half of 2011.

The top seller for the month was the award-winning S60 sports sedan with 2,649 units sold, followed by the XC60 with 1,626 units sold, a 20.5 percent increase from June 2011.

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North American Retail Sales By Car Range - June 2012

United States *
June Year To Date
Models:2012 2011 % 2012 2011 %
S40: 1 328 -99.7% 50 2,474 -98%
S60: 2,649 2,430 9% 12,449 11,048 12.7%
S80: 496 490 1.2% 1,917 2,533 -24.3%
V50: 0 69 -100% 0 503 -100%
V70: 0 3 -100% 0 22 -100%
XC60 : 1,626 1,349 20.5% 8,511 7,474 13.9%
XC70 : 465 517 -10.1% 2,622 2,570 2%
XC90: 758 1,032 -26.6% 4,838 5,082 -4.8%
C30: 276 335 -17.6% 1,367 1,634 -16.3%
C70: 836 547 52.8% 2,864 2,964 -3.4%
Total 7,107 7,100 .1% 34,618 36,304 -4.6%
* U.S. totals include Puerto Rico


I got this from https://www.media.volvocars.com/us/enhanced/en-us/Media/Preview.aspx?mediaid=44602 and https://www.media.volvocars.com/us/enhanced/en-us/About/Sales/Current.aspx
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Perhaps the interior updates to the S60/XC60/XC70/S80 and the powertrain additions to the S60 will help Volvo reverse its 3-month sales decline? Well, at the very least they are smaller declines from last year than what the increases were. :(
 

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So VCNA sold 7 more cars in June 2012 than in June 2011. The industry is up 22%, headed to 14,000,000 units. Maybe someone from VCNA could tell us when the business plan is going to gain traction.
 

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I was one of those who purchased a Volvo in June. I hope the numbers increase as people become aware of the new generation of Volvos.
 

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Look at those C70 sales, it trails the S60/XC60 quite a bit but it's the best seller behind the two volume models for Volvo. The summer months definitely bode well for that model.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So VCNA sold 7 more cars in June 2012 than in June 2011. The industry is up 22%, headed to 14,000,000 units. Maybe someone from VCNA could tell us when the business plan is going to gain traction.
I agree, though we can't discount the fact that Volvo was part of only 7 brands gaining sales immediately following the market crash of 2008. No doubt they would sell loads of V40s but they just won't bring it here! Frustrating. Hopefully they build that S60 Polestar to attract more customers, as well as the redesigned XC90 because no doubt people are holding out for it! It's sales have steadily declined and people know that it will debut sometime next year. But otherwise, not to many models have sales decreases.
 

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The S80 needs an base engine update and a purpose badly - it needs to be relaunched as a Sports Sedan (which i would argue would demand AWD standard) with a much higher output but fuel efficient base engine (turbo 4 or 5). It needs to go right after 5 series, E -Class and A6 sales.
 

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The S80 needs an base engine update and a purpose badly - it needs to be relaunched as a Sports Sedan (which i would argue would demand AWD standard) with a much higher output but fuel efficient base engine (turbo 4 or 5). It needs to go right after 5 series, E -Class and A6 sales.
I disagree with all points you made; AWD as standard equipment will not help it gain any ground. A new power plant would help to a certain extent but not enough to validate the cost of doing so. And the car, in it's current form, cannot really compete for luxury and premiumness vs. any of the 3 Germans you mentioned.

It is in its own class and has its own merits for those who want a very comfortable sedan that is super safe, drives well, has a lot of room and is not as ostentatious as the 3 Germans.
 

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In 98, Volvo sold 34,000 S80s to 35,000 5 series and 45,000 E-Class
But last year, they only sold 4,700 S80s to 51,500 5 series and 62,700 E-Class

Exactly what do you mean by "luxury" and "premiumness"? How have these two attributes changed over the past 10+ years? What else exactly does the car still need that Volvo is not giving it? Were the "germans" as equally "ostentatious" back then? What if "ostentatious" is really the only difference now? What then?

Otherwise, what should we call this "other" class that the S80 has created? Who else competes with the S80 in that class?
 

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In 98, Volvo sold 34,000 S80s to 35,000 5 series and 45,000 E-Class
But last year, they only sold 4,700 S80s to 51,500 5 series and 62,700 E-Class

Exactly what do you mean by "luxury" and "premiumness"? How have these two attributes changed over the past 10+ years? What else exactly does the car still need that Volvo is not giving it? Were the "germans" as equally "ostentatious" back then? What if "ostentatious" is really the only difference now? What then?

Otherwise, what should we call this "other" class that the S80 has created? Who else competes with the S80 in that class?
Guys,
Give an S80 (and Yannis) a break...in 1998, neither BMW nor MB knew, yet, what to do with the "near-luxury" class...the 5 was pure muscles and the E was....who knows?

Both manufacturers read the writing on the wall and moved their mid-offering up and up and up with every generation...Audi joint the race...Volvo (Ford?) chickened-out...my theory is - to open a market for the Jaguar, that became a part of family...

In that tail down mode Volvo (Ford) missed the opportunity back in 2006. The new model should be what the current Tourus is...but...we have XF instead...hopefully, the new offering in 2015 (?) will move to the right direction...

Till then, I agree with Yannis - neither AWD nor better engine will make a mouse into elephant...(no reflection on the physical dimensions)...
 

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In 98, Volvo sold 34,000 S80s to 35,000 5 series and 45,000 E-Class
But last year, they only sold 4,700 S80s to 51,500 5 series and 62,700 E-Class

Exactly what do you mean by "luxury" and "premiumness"? How have these two attributes changed over the past 10+ years? What else exactly does the car still need that Volvo is not giving it? Were the "germans" as equally "ostentatious" back then? What if "ostentatious" is really the only difference now? What then?

Otherwise, what should we call this "other" class that the S80 has created? Who else competes with the S80 in that class?
When the S80 was first introduced, withmuch fanfare and with a good reason since it was the company's first venture into tht segment, it was a much different world; as Lev pointed out very correctly above, the "luxury" segment was not what it is today. At the same time, Volvo was setting records in sales with only 2 models (S70 and V70) which, by the way, occupied a very different place in their respective segments.

Then, the S80 came and filled a gap, if you will.

Today's S80 segment is quite different. I still believe that the S80 T6 is a bargain when compared to the 3 Germans but, to many people, it is not as luxurious. Right now, this is the story of the entire brand where it is squeezed between the luxury segment and the near luxury segment...

By the way, did you guys miss Jaguar's announcement that it intends to drop a 4-cyl into the new XF? ;)
 

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Again, HOW is it different. What does the S80 need to get back in the game?
Four cylinders and less complexity. five maybe six volume models. the s80 fit could fit in that business plan. i don't think it does today. the s80 should be an a6 with 10% less content and 15% less price. that's what worked in the old days, and it would work again. the problem today is it has 15% less price but 50% less content.
 

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Again, HOW is it different.
I thought I wrote that above. Again, it is more luxurious. Its level of premiumness or luxury is several steps above of where it used to be.

What does the S80 need to get back in the game?
All I can tell you for now is that Volvo will compete in that segment. We need to be in that segment.
 

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I thought I wrote that above. Again, it is more luxurious. Its level of premiumness or luxury is several steps above of where it used to be.
What does "more luxurious" mean? Is it the color of the stitching? The softness of the leather? What does it mean? How do you "up" the level of premiumness. What's an example of the lack of this between the current S80 and the germans?
 

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What does "more luxurious" mean? Is it the color of the stitching? The softness of the leather? What does it mean? How do you "up" the level of premiumness. What's an example of the lack of this between the current S80 and the germans?
I think there may be an issue between keeping the simplistic Scandinavian design and upping the premium feel of the car to the level of some of the Germans. Materials are a big part, I think, and many of the competitors have started using a greater mix of materials in the dash and doors and what not. There are also things like interior ambient lighting that can add to the premium feel and Volvo seems to lag behind in that. I love the matte wood in my S80 but there isn't much of it and its implementation is pretty straightforward and plain. The ambient lighting isn't great and in my car it's so dim you can't even see the effect of the overhead LEDs. I didn't even realize I had a light behind the dash console until I had a loaner S60 which was marginally brighter. I stuck my hand behind mine and realized it was there. It's uselessly dim though.

Then there are little things like the interior materials standing up to very little abuse so the interior looks worn far ahead of its time. Seats in the S80, while soft and comfortable, can very easily show their age. The soft touch console and dash materials scratch easily, the Volvo symbol can fall off the steering wheel and if you rest your arm on the upper part of the door panel while driving you can expect a wear spot to form in a short amount of time. Add to that the fact that the speakers make the door panel rattle and you get a car that is trying but not quite hitting its mark.

I still love my car though!
 

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Volvo shouldn't be aiming with the S80 to be a lower cost alternative to the A6 and 5 series since its volume movement is low and I can't imagine Volvo is making that much per S80 sold in the U.S. Volvo should stake out a peer level premium position and try to maximize profit per unit sold but each unit should be of a higher caliber, more content standard, more power, more handling finesse. I can't believe the current plan for the S80 is considered a success. This car IS capable of taking on the 5 series and A6 with proper upgrades. Yannis, maybe AWD isn't necessary but i can't imagine paying this level of money for a 280-300HP sedan (assuming a new turbo base engine) that torque steers. I am currently driving my 300HP 2005 S60R automatic with it's damaged propeller shaft removed while I wait on the new one to arrive - managing all that power through the front wheels alone can be tricky at times. I realize technology like HiPer Strut (G.M.) and RevoKnuckle (Ford) are supposed to excellent at dealing with high power FWD cars but I am not sure Volvo's front suspension design is up to those levels honestly. Please enlighten us if you know better.

One alternative is to bring back a RWD sedan at a premium performance and price level above the S80 and let the S80 chase Lexus ES sales. But we all know platform development is expensive but it has seemed to pay off for Cadillac with the CTS.

Another is maybe to try to split the S80 into 2 types of sedan, have say a S90 built off the same platform with different more aggressive styling (similar to how the X6 was spawned from the X5, CLS from the E class) and a sporting purpose to go after the 5 series and A6.
 

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Volvo shouldn't be aiming with the S80 to be a lower cost alternative to the A6 and 5 series since its volume movement is low and I can't imagine Volvo is making that much per S80 sold in the U.S. Volvo should stake out a peer level premium position and try to maximize profit per unit sold but each unit should be of a higher caliber, more content standard, more power, more handling finesse.
Indeed.

This car IS capable of taking on the 5 series and A6 with proper upgrades.
For some, yes. For many others, no. Do not forget that, for one reson or the other, the BMW and Audi brands do carry quite a bit larger cachet so they have an advantage from the get-go.

Yannis, maybe AWD isn't necessary but i can't imagine paying this level of money for a 280-300HP sedan (assuming a new turbo base engine) that torque steers. I am currently driving my 300HP 2005 S60R automatic with it's damaged propeller shaft removed while I wait on the new one to arrive - managing all that power through the front wheels alone can be tricky at times. I realize technology like HiPer Strut (G.M.) and RevoKnuckle (Ford) are supposed to excellent at dealing with high power FWD cars but I am not sure Volvo's front suspension design is up to those levels honestly. Please enlighten us if you know better.
An S80 3,2 does not suffer from torque steer and if it exhibits any it is almost imperceptible.

One alternative is to bring back a RWD sedan at a premium performance and price level above the S80 and let the S80 chase Lexus ES sales. But we all know platform development is expensive but it has seemed to pay off for Cadillac with the CTS.
I do not think RWD is warranted to compete successfully especially vs Lexus ES. nd, yes, developing a brand new platform from scratch requires an unbelievable amount of resources but that is the foundation of a successful carline.
 

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Indeed, indeed. (whatever that means)

Lexus ES isn't the issue. If Volvo is targeting the ES, they're nuts. Volvo cannot not now and never will be able to beat Lexus in that segment. The target is the European/Scandinavian sub-premium segment, a bargain offering as compared to BMW, Audi, MB with their cachet built into their price. The traditional tweedy New England professor customer needs to complement himself on his smarts in buying a car rationally priced, yet expresses his appreciation of Western Culture.

A FWD car will always be at a disadvantage in this market. AWD is doable, RWD is prefered, but FWD is going to curse any S80 to an ignoble position in the market. Its a cheap ploy and cheap ploys don't work where Volvo needs to be.

The reason Audi, BMW & MB have cachet which they can build into their pricing comes from doing things right for a long time. From racing in the 30s to iconic cars in the 50s, to standard setting vehicles for over a hundred years.

Small anecdote, I am with a friend who has a new LS 460, and he talks about the day when he can get a big S class. Even Lexus is a half a step behind at the top, and farther behind as you go down the scale.
 

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I wouldn't expect a FWD @245HP S80 to compete against a BMW 5 series, to me its most natural competitor is the Lexus ES but even against the Lexus it comes up short on power and acceleration (I believe) and many believe the ES is more luxurious. My mom bought a 2010 XC60 and constantly compares it to her friend's RX always stating her friend's RX is more luxurious. When I ask here to state HOW it is more luxurious the only thing she scan specifically point out is the ease of use of the RX's touchscreen navigation.

I noticed some torque steer and wheel hop when gunning her XC60 3.2 FWD while turning right simultaneously - it definitely got my attention and this was on a dry road in 90F weather.

Yannis, I meant a RWD platform sedan would be ideal to compete against the BMW 5 series, Cadillac CTS, Audi A6 while maintaining the S80 to compete against the Lexus ES, Toyota Avalon, Hyundai Azera etc.
 
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