SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, iv been noticing increased shudders while idling, almost feels like small missfires.
I got a P0302 and exchanged coil with #1, has not come back for a week.
Last night i got a P2096, cleared, has not come back
Car drives great, plenty of power, no hesitations.
Replaced PCV a few weeks back, pcv glove test sucks the glove right in.

There is a hiss coming from the engine, sounds like a vacuum leak, i checked my wifes car (2000 v70xc) and it sound pretty much the same.
Stopped and asked a lady today in the parking lot if i could listen to her engine (2001 v70xc), she grinned and said, sure. i was pretty quick under the hood and could not hear any hiss.

I sprayed some starter fluid around the air intake manifold and where the pcv breather box sits, along the vacuum lines and where the sounds seems to come from. No change in RPM

When i replaced the PCV and got to the point of putting in the intake gasket, the last bolt (the one on the far left corner, under the thermostat housing) did not want to come out all the way, i did not have a Thermos housing gasket, and did not want to remove the coolant, so i made a small cut in the intake gasket, so it would fit around the bolt, i cut it there thinking it would not cause a leak since the entire surface around the intake opening would be covered. Spraying starter fluid here did not change the RPM´s.

Does you XC70/V70 have a hiss in the engine?
Would this be a vacuum leak?
Any way to test this myself?
Could it be coming from the pcv?
Can i pressure test system with smoke or something ?

Im considering biting the bullet and bringing it to a indie that specialized in Euro cars, 105 usd an hr..... maybe have them diagnose and give it back to me.

I would really appreciate suggestions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,316 Posts
Does you XC70/V70 have a hiss in the engine?
Would this be a vacuum leak?
Any way to test this myself?
Could it be coming from the pcv?
Can i pressure test system with smoke or something ?
No

Maybe, could also be a noisy pulley or accessory.

Yes

Maybe

Yes

If it's idling noticeable poor, try unplugging the MAF. Does the idle smooth out?
If yes then it's a vacuum leak or possible MAF issue
If no then you have another issue

A Boost leak will generally only affect on throttle performance, but can also throw off the calculations in the ECM when decelerating and coming to a stop.

You can check for leaks using carb cleaner:

Or the cigar method:

Or my method:
If you're looking to test for boost leaks the easiest way I think of doing so is using a air compressor (or even a bike pump) on the hose that leads from the throttle inlet tube to the vacuum connection to the right of the intake manifold. What I do is:
1. Remove this hose and duct tape to open port on the gated valve (ejector).

2. Remove the intake pipe from the MAF and cover it with either duct tape or a 3" pipe test cap and use the hose clamp to secure it inplace.
3. Remove the hose from the PTC on the intake pipe and cover the open port on the PTC with duct tape using the hose clamp to secure it inplace.

4. Remove the oil filler cap
5. Insert the compressor fitting into the 3/8" hose from the turbo inlet pipe and pressurize the system to 5psi - 10psi max.
6. Listen for leaks and remedy any issues.
You will naturally lose pressure through the system as the valves will leak, so if you hear any hissing from the oil filler cap or area and are noticing a slight pressure loss that's acceptable, but any other leaks should be easy to distinguish.

This test excludes the PCV system. If you want to pressurize the whole system skip step 2-4, just make sure you keep the pressure to 5psi max as you will be pressurizing the block as well and will damage seals if too much pressure is applied.

As for common leaks, I've noticed leaks where the injectors seal on the manifold (new seals and seats), from the IAT/MAP (used RTV to seal it), from the CBV cover, loose clamps, and split hoses

Good Luck
If it's a large leak then you'll need to smoke the system. Smoke is the most effective and safest means of finding a leak. If you're a non-smoke, or just don't like the cigar method, you can DIY a paint can smoker for cheap and use it with my method. Here is my favorite DIY build.
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/general-chat/topic35820.html

Obviously try to look all things over, there are quite a few places where vacuum leaks can occur that are not in plain view.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I unplugged the MAF yesterday, car shuddered a bit and then ran like it did before, no difference in the idle.

Saw those videos, and i think i used brake cleaner to test, today i used starter fluid, would it make a difference?
Better to use carb cleaner?
When i tried it with the brake cleaner and starter fluid nothing happened. maybe it bogged down a little but its hard to tell as the engine was doing that anyway.

Thoughts on the intake manifold gasket cut i did?

And if i use your method, and skit steps 2-4 it would be safe at below 5psi? would listening for a leak and then feeling for it do it?
Im not quite sure i understand step 1, i know the hose, what side do i connect the pump to? and do i duct take the other side?
Do i pressurize the manifold side or take it where it enters the manifold ?

Thanks
oh, and i updated my signature :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hmm, had to google LTFT STFT, its a very simple reader.
Autel MaxiScan MS300

would it be able to find that info ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Cannot read LTFT STFT with this reader, just simple DTC and erase function.
The check engine light came back on, it was the P0302, so its not the coils as i exchanged those, could it be an injector?
Considering that the other code i got was a P2096 Post Catalyst Fuel Trim System Too Lean Bank 1.
My reasoning is that i got a P0302 twice once before and once after after moving the coils, and the other code is the P2096, which to me means that the engine is running too lean, if im reading the code correctly.

Im ordering a fuel filter too, i think its time.

Maybe the hiss im hearing is from the power steering pump or the Alternator. any suggestions on testing these? i don´t want to start spraying wd40 in the belt area.

Could i remove the serpentine belt and start the engine to see if that takes care of the hiss?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,316 Posts
What spark plugs and what gap?

Injectors, not likely but possible. You can swap injectors as well to see if the miss moves.

One experience I've had. A friend bought a S70 T5 with a dead cylinder. While dissembling the engine I had noticed that the injector seat had corrosion and caused a poor seal at the intake manifold. This would have allowed for a air leak in that runner causing an isolated lean condition for that cylinder, this burnt the valves over time. Previous owner stated no issues until it started missing and throwing O2 codes. Not to scare you, this was only a one time observation of mine and I don't think it's likely, but before you throw more part at it maybe you should perform a compression test.

As for accessories and pulleys on the belt, a mechanics stethoscope or a long flat head screw driver placed on the ear can help with locating noises.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
What spark plugs and what gap?

Injectors, not likely but possible. You can swap injectors as well to see if the miss moves.

One experience I've had. A friend bought a S70 T5 with a dead cylinder. While dissembling the engine I had noticed that the injector seat had corrosion and caused a poor seal at the intake manifold. This would have allowed for a air leak in that runner causing an isolated lean condition for that cylinder, this burnt the valves over time. Previous owner stated no issues until it started missing and throwing O2 codes. Not to scare you, this was only a one time observation of mine and I don't think it's likely, but before you throw more part at it maybe you should perform a compression test.

As for accessories and pulleys on the belt, a mechanics stethoscope or a long flat head screw driver placed on the ear can help with locating noises.
Volvo R6 plugs, changed about 2k miles ago, did not measure gap.

Hah, that story did give me a bit of a scare :p

When i did the PCV i replaced the o-rings on the injectors, they were pretty crumbly, but in one piece and no signs of any corrosion or anything.
I guess spraying starter fluid on the intake manifold would have increased the rpm´s if there was a vacuum leak there?

So you suggest doing a compression test next?
Would this be correct, assuming iv done the preliminaries like removing the cover etc.
1. Pull fuel pump relay
2. remove coil wires
3. install compression gauge
4. crank motor 3-4 seconds
5. repeat for each cylinder and take notes
Do you know what psi range it should be at ?

and while im at it measure gaps
As for cleaning injectors, iv seen some youtube´s where people use a battery to trigger the injector and use carb cleaner to push fluid through, thoughts on this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,316 Posts
R6 doens't mean much to me. I know it's what's printed on the ceramic portion of the plug, but either the PN on the heel of the plug or the PN on the package is more informative. Anyway, if you bought them from a reputable source I'm sure they're the right plugs. Plugs from Volvo are supposed to be pre-gapped, but I always check them.

Compression test should be performed on a hot engine, with the throttle wide open, and the same number of revolutions per each cylinder. You're correct on the rest of the procedure. You're looking for ~180psi, but most importantly that all cylinders have equal compression +-10%

Cleaning injectors should be done on a flow bench to ensure each injector is functioning correctly and that all injectors have equal flow rates. Ran me $100 CAD to flow check my injectors, got a discount because I had serviced the filter baskets, pintle caps, and seals myself. These Bosch injectors are quite good and not really problematic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
R6 doens't mean much to me. I know it's what's printed on the ceramic portion of the plug, but either the PN on the heel of the plug or the PN on the package is more informative. Anyway, if you bought them from a reputable source I'm sure they're the right plugs. Plugs from Volvo are supposed to be pre-gapped, but I always check them.

Compression test should be performed on a hot engine, with the throttle wide open, and the same number of revolutions per each cylinder. You're correct on the rest of the procedure. You're looking for ~180psi, but most importantly that all cylinders have equal compression +-10%

Cleaning injectors should be done on a flow bench to ensure each injector is functioning correctly and that all injectors have equal flow rates. Ran me $100 CAD to flow check my injectors, got a discount because I had serviced the filter baskets, pintle caps, and seals myself. These Bosch injectors are quite good and not really problematic.
Ok, i did the compression test, each cylinder measured about 160psi, i added some oil into each after testing them dry and they jumped up to 190psi.
Higher quantity of oil made it go all the way up to 210psi
I performed the test by removing the fuel pump relay, all the coils, and having 1 plug removed at the time, counted to 8 on each test with throttle wide open.

While i moved the pressure gauge from one cylinder to the next the throttle body made "electrical sounds" and sounded like it was moving a bit in there, thought to mention this too.

the plugs read : 30637308 or 03 the last digit is a bit blurred in the picture. they are were all gapped at 0.27.

Removed the serpentine belt and started engine, hiss is still there.

did nothing to the injectors, but took them out to inspect, the outside of them look fine, not that this means much.

suggestions for next step ?

Thoughts about the hiss? if it is a vacuum leak, i guess i would be related to the missfire and rough idle?
Pressure test next?

Id love to solve this, but will consider a volvo mech at some point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,316 Posts
Compression looks great!

30637308 is the correct plug.

Electrical sounds from the ETM is normal, it's a self test/adaption, but being 2002 anyways, what sticker is on the ETM? Do know if it was rebuilt?

You can test for an a vacuum leak next, I'd use smoke before pressure testing. Smoke the whole system with the PCV connected and the MAF capped off. I assume your reader cannot read LTFT and STFT?

I'd take it back a notch and thoroughly inspect the ignition components coils, connector, and wires. Try swapping the coils again with another cylinder and see if it moves.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Compression looks great!

30637308 is the correct plug.

Electrical sounds from the ETM is normal, it's a self test/adaption, but being 2002 anyways, what sticker is on the ETM? Do know if it was rebuilt?

You can test for an a vacuum leak next, I'd use smoke before pressure testing. Smoke the whole system with the PCV connected and the MAF capped off. I assume your reader cannot read LTFT and STFT?

I'd take it back a notch and thoroughly inspect the ignition components coils, connector, and wires. Try swapping the coils again with another cylinder and see if it moves.
No LTFT or STFT on the reader, can probably borrow a reader and get those though. yes/no?

So for the smoke test, buy a cigar and just blow smoke into some tube and wait for it to come out if there is a leak? Suggestions for what tube to blow into?
But before that inspect the coils and wires?

I have not gotten the code again, i moved the #2 coil back to #2 cylinder, they have all been marked, 1-5 at some point with a perm marker, don´t know why.
The wire looms are a little crumbly, what am i looking for? stripped insulation? corrosion? i don´t quite know, unless something really obvious sticks out at me.

so the 160psi is good? at what point do you do new piston rings?, while i was testing i thought that maybe when the timing belt is due, and i still plan to keep the car for a while i´d give it a rebuild, new rings gaskets do the head and valves at a shop etc. Last belt was done at 122k miles, so its not due for a while.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,316 Posts
I'm just trying to give you ideas, go about it which ever direction you choose, gotta think for yourself a bit on this one.

While not exactly needed, LTFT and STFT will show you how much the ECU is adjusting fueling based on engine conditions.

Yes you can cigar test, blow into any hose in the induction/vacuum system. I'm not a big fan of the cigar test, but some have had success. I like my paint can smoker. Best location would be any hose leading into the intake manifold, just make sure the system is sealed at the MAF and at any hose you disconnect. If you find it to tough to blow into the system then it's not a large leak, you can try the pressure test.

what am i looking for? stripped insulation? corrosion?
Nail on the head! Anything that looks off. Pinch point, pinched/exposed wires, weak insulation, corrosion on contacts. Follow the wires back if you have to.

Your engine is fine mechanically. With that compression the engine should outlast the rest of the vehicle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I'm just trying to give you ideas, go about it which ever direction you choose, gotta think for yourself a bit on this one.

While not exactly needed, LTFT and STFT will show you how much the ECU is adjusting fueling based on engine conditions.

Yes you can cigar test, blow into any hose in the induction/vacuum system. I'm not a big fan of the cigar test, but some have had success. I like my paint can smoker. Best location would be any hose leading into the intake manifold, just make sure the system is sealed at the MAF and at any hose you disconnect. If you find it to tough to blow into the system then it's not a large leak, you can try the pressure test.



Nail on the head! Anything that looks off. Pinch point, pinched/exposed wires, weak insulation, corrosion on contacts. Follow the wires back if you have to.

Your engine is fine mechanically. With that compression the engine should outlast the rest of the vehicle.
I feel a bit lost on this one, but thanks for many good pointers, ill set aside some time for just looking and inspecting, i have a feeling something might be leaking around the pcv, maybe i didn´t connect properly or something is broken. ill try the cigar test through the breather tube on the top of the engine, that might make any leaks in the breather box obvious i would think.

Glad to hear about the state of the engine, yes, a new set of brakes are in order pretty soon, shortly followed by struts and control arm bushings, and i don´t want to think on from there. for a 2600 dollar car its getting plenty of loving from me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,422 Posts
Those Sub-3k cars always seem to need a lot of "love" ($$$) ;-) I've owned a couple of lovers myself
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Those Sub-3k cars always seem to need a lot of "love" ($$$) ;-) I've owned a couple of lovers myself
Yea, its like having a high maintenance hot girlfriend, only this car gives back more :p
haha, sorry for the stereotyping.

But yes, i got a really good price on the car tough, its really pretty, inside and out. But it has the normal stuff to take care of now coming in one after another.
I think if it were an asian car it would be sold the day i bought it :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I took the time to breathe some cigar smoke in through the pcv breather hose, and turns out there is a leak there, i cant quite make it out, as i ran out of cigar smoke, but it seems to be along the breather hose assembly that runs back to the turbo and that connects to the banjo bolt on the air intake.

I bought the assembly from IPD, and i am contemplating my next move.

It´s really hard to get a good view as everything is under the air intake, i used my camera to film while i blew smoke.
Im a bit reluctant to take the airintake off to properly diagnose it without having the new hose assembly, but maybe its a hose i can replace with a different vaccum hose,

i think the hose that has failed is the one circled in the picture, but i am not sure. if it is this hose, can i replace it with a different hose, lets say one from the local shop?

Or would it be better to get a new hose assembly from IPD?
Id rather do an easy repair than replacing the whole thing, that banjo fitting in the back by the turbo was a pita.

If i do take off the intake manifold can i reuse the same gasket or do i need to replace it ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,316 Posts
That hose you've circled is a coolant hose. The hose just to the right of it is the vacuum hose, it's very easy to break.

As JRL has pointed out, you can use this hose assembly if that hose is found at fault.

Volvo PN 30731007

http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?27137-Using-XC90-T6-PCV-hose-instead-of-30731068

Removing the fan cowling will free up some space for inspection, possibly enough room to work with as well, but be careful of the live wires on the starter if you'll be working in the area.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Hmm, ok, i guess IPD would replace this under warranty as i bought the whole assembly 3 weeks ago.

ill get another cigar and angle my camera a bit better.

thanks.
What about the intake gasket, would i need to replace it again if i take the manifold off ?
Job was done 3 weeks ago.

Also wondering if there is a good way of connecting that hose to the intake manifold, i remember it was a huge pain getting the banjo in, everything fit very tight around there when i reassembled it all.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top