[safetyfirst]

Our counter balance shaft failed last August. I'm sure many of us remain interested in knowing what caused these failures. I thought it could be useful (especially for new members of the "V8 CB-Club") to have a thread with information from other owners whose V8's have failed. Engine # 6833 is reportedly the cut-off for problems. This might help identify (or exclude) particular circumstances leading to the failure of these bearings.<p>I'll kick off and would encourage anyone with ideas for additional categories of information to chime in. Maybe one of the administrators could consider making this a sticky, although sadly I suspect it will be bumped frequently enough that this may be unnecessary. We can always edit our own posts to add extra info as the thread progresses. I've suggested a format below, with "na" for 'not applicable', and "?" for 'unknown'. Please make suggestions. Sorry for the survey-like nature of the post, but such a resource may be of use for those other unfortunate souls that experience this sort of event.<p>Model year -<br>Chassis number - <br>Delivery date - <br>Age at Failure -<br>Mileage at failure - <br>Engine number (if known) - <br>Average driving history - e.g. hard ; moderate; easy.<br>Environmental conditions and approx % time in each - e.g. dry; wet; snow or ice.<br>Washed engine ? - e.g. bucket of water cloth; hose; pressure hose. <br>Repair action - e.g. counter balance shaft bearing and other essential parts only; replacement engine.<br>Time to Repair - <br>Repaired under - e.g. factory warranty; extended warranty; my wallet.<br>Repair cost -<br>Cost to You -<br>Name of Dealership -<br>Supportive Dealer ? -<br>Supportive VCNA ? -<br>Other comments - <p><br>Model year - 2005 <br>Chassis Number - 0194827<br>Delivery date - 03/16/2005 via OSD<br>Age at Failure - 3 yr 5 mo<br>Mileage at failure - 36,376<br>Engine number - 4,333<br>Average driving history - Moderate<br>Environmental conditions and approx % time in each - dry 95%; wet 5%; ice or snow 1%.<br>Washed engine ? - Never<br>Repair action - New long block<br>Time to Repair - 15 days<br>Repaired under - Volvo Increased Protection, TOTAL CARE (NEW) - cost $ 2,251<br>Repair cost - $14,422.26 (Volvo's cost for new long block with exchange of old = $10,536.45)<br>Cost to You - $234.36<br>Name of Dealership - Volvo of Orange County<br>Supportive Dealer ? - Extremely good<br>Supportive VCNA ? - na<br>Other comments - <p>

 

[ione2retire]

Re: V8 "CB-Club" Members - V8 counter balance shaft failure thread (safetyfirst)

Hi everyone! My cb shaft bearing failed back in Sept. I have no warranty, and I can't afford volvo's $125.00 an hour labor rate. Fourtunately, I have another vehicle to drive. Well, my new year's resolution was to fix the volvo!!<br> I've got engine dismantled. Bearing was hammered!! I shut off engine before bearing and shaft actually siezed up, so my valves didn't invade my pistons. See all pics! <br>74,500 miles<br>I purchased vehicle used, August 1 2008. I LOVE this vehicle, when it was running!! Not so much right nowhttp://pix.kg/p/195452445215%3A2127399084/sct.<br>engine # 0000359<br>I'm really unsure where to drill drain hole in block. I would like to read tech bulliten Hardattack mentioned. Does anyone know where I could find it?<br>I would definately like to talk to volvo about this. Any advise on where I should start? Should I contact a dealership first or call VCNA? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/confused.gif" BORDER="0">

 

[crash]

wow, this is reminiscent of the T6 days. everyone was encouraged to post their model, package and build dates.

 

[safetyfirst]

Re: V8 "CB-Club" Members - V8 counter balance shaft failure thread (ione2retire)

Wow - your poor sod - that's your blood on the block ! Well, that answers one of my earlier questions about the bearing manufacturer - MTM is one of the brand names for Harpal bearing co in Dehli. Not SKF as I thought it might have been.

 

[AccuView]

Re: V8 "CB-Club" Members - V8 counter balance shaft failure thread (safetyfirst)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>safetyfirst</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow - your poor sod - that's your blood on the block ! Well, that answers one of my earlier questions about the bearing manufacturer - MTM is one of the brand names for Harpal bearing co in Dehli. Not SKF as I thought it might have been.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Actually, the photo says NTN - it's a Japanese company with offices in US and elsewhere.<p><A HREF="http://www.ntnamerica.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.ntnamerica.com</A>/

 

[cedarholm]

Re: V8 "CB-Club" Members - V8 counter balance shaft failure thread (ione2retire)

Photoes are great. Hang in there.<p>What brand bearing are you installing?<p>Please keep us posted. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>No failure here yet, but I called VCNA customer service direct and lodged my concerns.<p>Maybe Geely will step up as they purchase Volvo.<p>Toyota did a complete head gasket replace no charge on my ten year old 4Runner.

 

[ione2retire]

I dont know yet, Just finished taking apart yesterday, I haven't ordered any parts yet, Want to contact volvo first, as I mentioned before, Not quite sure wether I should call a local dealer or VCNA? I would like to have someone from Volvo look at this and provide some sort of compensation, wether it is monetary or parts.

 

[XC90Dirk]

Re: (ione2retire)

You are my hero.<p>As a 2005 owner with a low-number engine and 77k on the clock, I'm watching with great interest. The pictures are great and really helped me to understand what and where that part really is. I'm looking forward to hearing Volvo's response to this.<p>Dirk

 

[fruitbat]

Re: (XC90Dirk)

I have been watching this with great issue, I have a 05 from May OSD and did not buy the extended warrenty. I contacted VCNA and this was the reply....<p>Dear Mr. Reed,<p>Thank you for your email.<p>Beginning with engine #6671, the problem you mentioned was corrected in production at the factory. Your vehicle engine is #6756. The correction was already made to your particular car.<p>Despite what you have been told, the production correction did resolve the issue.<p>You also asked about precautions. We recommend not washing the engine.<p>Sincerely,<p>Bart<p>VCNA<p>Take that for what you will.<p>Thanks all for the prior sharing.

 

[ione2retire]

Re: (fruitbat)

I contacted volvo yesterday (VCNA)and they basically told me to go pound salt!! They did however tell me to save all of my receipts, that if this issue turns into a recall, I would be reimbursed. I contacted a local volvo dealer and spoke with the parts manager. He told me that they have only encountered 1 CB shaft failure. I ordered all the parts, should be receiving them sometime next week. Got the hole drilled in block, and all gasket mating surfaces clean, should be all set to assemble!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>Volvo knew that this was an issue, that's the reason for the tech bulitin about how to make the drainage hole, and the early production change to include drainage hole. They should have stepped up to the plate and taken care of this issue instead of letting these early production models out the door! Now us, the poor S.O.B.'s that own one, have to deal with it. It's times like this I wish I was the Attorney General or a corporate lawyer <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <BR><BR>
<i>Modified by ione2retire at 7:45 AM 1-9-2010</i>

 

[12Ounce]

Re: (ione2retire)

Ione2retire, thanks for all the info you have shared. Sorry Volvo corporate did not (yet) step up ... hopefully they will. <p>Some questions, please:<p>1. I'm curious about the rear bearing to countershaft connection. Does the shaft merely press into the inner race? ... does one need a "puller" to separate the two? Is there a retainer ... such as a circlip?<p>2. The top removable portion of the rear bearing journal (the "bearing cover") is held in place with three long screws/bolts. If this were changed to a set of three studs and nuts ... instead of screws ... would this make the bearing-cover removable, while both heads remain in place? Would this lead to making the bearing replacement something that could be more easily done?<p>3. Assumes one owns a '05 V8 that is yet low-mileage and apparently still has significant life on the rear bearing. Would the following be a good maintenance action? ... is it even doable?...:<br>A. Using compressed air, clean out the area ... the "pocket"... behind the rear bearing mount.<br>B. Using a grease gun with flexible-hose adapter ... pump synthetic high temp axle/bearing grease into the "pocket" ... continue until the grease has mounded and completely fills the open area. The grease-mound is intended to keep all liquids or condensation out of the area behind the bearing.<br>C. If the area is accessible to the fingers, cover the grease-mound with a customed-cut flexible plastic fabric (think tarp material) for additional protection.<p>??

 

[dmd]

Re: (12Ounce)

<p>Problem with attempting to seal the area with grease is that if any moisture does get in the<br>moisture will be trapped. Better to just keep water away from the engine. The drain hole doesnt<br>guarantee it wont fail, it just lessens the chances by letting as much moisture out as possible. It<br>is not a good application for a sealed bearing.<br>

 

[ione2retire]

Re: (dmd)

dmd hit the nail on the head! <B>Definitely</B> not a good application of a sealed bearing!! The rear bearing is pressed on the CB shaft, no clips or retainers. Mine was so badly wore that it just fell off on dissassembly. I really don't have an answer to your other questions, I'm not a mechanic, jack of all trades, master of none! I do feel dmd is correct here too about the grease trapping moisture. I believe heat would also be a big factor. I'm not sure, but as bearing begins to fail, or even in normal operation, it must get hot, due to location, and the nature of the beast. Too much grease could be a fire hazard in this location. There is not much ventilation in this area. Changing the bolts to studs may be beneficial, I'm still thinking about that one. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/confused.gif" BORDER="0">

 

[12Ounce]

Re: (ione2retire)

I would have thought the aluminum split journal would have been enough of a heat sink for the bearing ... until the bearing gets into the final failure mode and very high temps. OK, I will put away the "glob of grease" idea for the time being .....<p>"Mind designing" on the studs a bit more: Assume the studs are be similar to hardened steel set-screws that you have seen ... with a hex recess on the end for using an Allen wrench. <B>"Perhaps"</B> if the stud length is selected properly ... upon bearing failure, the three nuts could be removed ... and the studs <B>driven deeper into the block</B> for even more disassembly clearance! Whaddayathink?<p>The bearing should not have much mechanical loading on it ... less than in the rear of a alternator one would think. Just a bad location. Little access. There has to be a good absolute "fix"!!<p>So far, I've never seen any detail other than your photos ... but it is an intriguing problem. (BTW, I've started shopping for a high-mileage XC90 V8!!)

 

[ione2retire]

When the bearing fails, the balance shaft must be removed to change bearing. Not enough room to do so unless you remove bank 1 cylinder head. From a PM point of view, stud idea might possibly work to clean & relube bearing. Good thinking!!

 

[12Ounce]

Re: (ione2retire)

Thanks for your feedback on the concept. I just gotta get my hands on that engine ....!<p>(Did you mean "bank #2" ... the one closer to the radiator?)

 

[ione2retire]

Yes! I thought that was bank 1 uht ooo!

 

[Bigjon]

What about removing the balance shaft altogether? Can you eliminate that failure mode in return for a coarser ride?

 

[12Ounce]

Re: (Bigjon)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Bigjon</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What about removing the balance shaft altogether? Can you eliminate that failure mode in return for a coarser ride?</TD></TR></TABLE><br>That would be a huge re-engineering task ... the chain would have to be shorter, or the chain wheel left in the same location to keep the chain path the same ... then how would the chain wheel be supported? .. Huge!<p>My thinking is it is easier to deal with the rear bearing where it is ... perhaps install a grease fitting somewhere ?? In the upper journal cover perhaps?? There are bearings manufactured that have a grease path provided thru the outside race ... not sure they are made in these dimensions. Will take some on-hand study.<p>Another whimsical thought is to keep the rear bearing mostly as is ... but pop off the inner seal. Easily done. Of course, keep the outer seal in place. Pour in motor oil in and around the counter shaft ... then put the shaft cover in place. Don't put in so much oil that the shaft whips it .... just enough to slosh about .... washing the bearing occassionally. ?? . . ... Perhaps an "atmosphere" hose/tube will have to be added to connect the shaft chamber with the crankcase, allowing excess oil splash to be removed. Along with a top-off provision to the crank chamber. ??<p><br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by 12Ounce at 4:38 AM 1-10-2010</i>

 

[ione2retire]

Re: (12Ounce)

If you look at photo 100-5885 on my flicker link, you can see an oblong hole right at the end of balance shaft chamber. This is a factory supplied drain hole. It goes right under the journal that is molded into block for rear CB shaft bearing. It then goes under waterjacket (coolant)chamber, and botoms out against transmission cover. I haven't been able to see where it actually drains. Just to the right of the journal that's in the block, is where the tech buliten shows to drill an 8mm. hole, 3mm. deep and 9mm. from the edge of where the bearing cover mounts, thus connecting the factory supplied drain to the hole that was drilled. This is the key to the engine serial #'s. Pre 6833?(not sure correct#) Didn't have this hole, Post 6833? Do have this hole. I have pics of where I drilled this hole, I'll attempt to post them tomorrow. This is Volvo's Idea of extending the life of this innapropriate use of a sealed bearing!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><br><i>Modified by ione2retire at 8:07 AM 1-10-2010</i><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by ione2retire at 12:44 PM 1-10-2010</i>