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PSYCHE, just kidding


Bryan and I finally received the piping for our FMIC's from Alamo last week (formerly Svenske, left over parts). We both have appointments at our very mod friendly Volvo dealer to have them installed. Kudos to Manfred the SA and his crew http://********************/smile/emthup.gif


Here they are before we painted them


Angled top view of both


A little closer view of one of them set-up


Direct top view of one, note the bracket, not sure exactly how it will mount


Bryan the painter



Intercooler after painted


The piping after painting http://********************/smile/emthup.gif

We had a hard time finding a suitable paint. We wanted something that was heat resistant, yet would go on thin, and the finished product would be smooth. The FMIC, we only painted the front part that shows and the fins were painted straight-on so as not too block or alter the cooling effectiveness. We tried 1200F degree barbecue paint, 600C degree muffler paint, and 800C degree motorcycle engine paint. We finally settled on an engine paint that was not near as heat resistant as the others, then finished off the top pipes (going into the throttle body) with clear coat. The pipes and painted intercooler really look sweet. We will have the dealer take a lot of pics (time permitting) of the install and will report back.
 

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Re: Two bolt-on FMIC for sale!!!!! ("R" Kelly)

my initial engineering impression is that the inlet tubing seems to be small.

For reference, the pre-turbo flow is about 500 cfm max. So Boyle would tell us that the V and thus flow at 1 bar boost would be 250 cfm max.

So if that tubing was 60mm ID, you'd have a airspeed at max flow of about 93 mph! At that speed the bends mean something...
 

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Re: Two bolt-on FMIC for sale!!!!! (speedemon)

Glad they finally arrived.


But why would you paint those beautiful FMICs?


Haven't you have reduced the cooling effectiveness because what you see is also what the wind impacts and you've insulated it with heat resistant black paint... so I'm totally confused.

Wouldn't it be a better option so just get some black mesh/sreen to go in front of them if you thought they were too flashy?

I thought Sniz's looked very classy...



Regardless, I can't wait to see them in person. Only a 8 weeks to Nurburgring. When you all heading to Wateringen?
 

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Re: Two bolt-on FMIC for sale!!!!! (speedemon)

Nice stuff Jesse! http://********************/smile/emthup.gif

Like Jim says the hot side looks a bit small in diameter but I have seen subaru's making 400 engine HP using similar plumbing. Longer also.
 

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Re: Two bolt-on FMIC for sale!!!!! (JimLill)

Jim,

I see your point. Here is just info to help out in the mental gymnastics. I apologize in advance on the use of both mm and inches.

The pre-intercooler piping is 49mm I.D. This is just a bit larger than the 47mm I.D. of the over-engine pipe (at the round part in front of the engine). So at least it more than matches a choke point on the stock system.

For about 600 cfm, which is probably a bit more than we need with the stock turbo, air speed through the 49mm I.D. pipes should be around 520-530 ft/sec. Not optimal, but acceptable.

I think to go larger on the inlet and keep a relatively stock look, you would have to cut off the end of the over-engine pipe and weld on a different end to match larger piping. It would probably be hard to weld a round peice to the oval stock pipe and keep aerodynamically smooth internal transitions.

Just FYI, The intercooler inlet and outlets are both 57mm I.D. and the post intercooler piping is 59mm I.D.

The core itself is 21.5" long, 9.0" tall, and 3.0" wide. It has good internal flow cross section. 3" x 0.25" x 12 passages= 9.0 sq in flow area.

I spent some time with the dremel radiusing the lips on the intercooler in/outlets, and the mouths of all the pipes, to rid of sharp edges and some small aero drag points.

Kelly,

I concede that paint might reduce the efficiency of the intercooler, at least in theory. I am willing to go with that for the sake of stealth.

We did a very, very thin layer of paint on the intercooler. It is about as thin as can be without showing silver through. The paint is heat resistant, meaning is will not break down at high temps. It is not a heat blocking paint/coat. Eastwood makes some nice radiator paint, but we could not find that of the equivlent over here. We only painted the front of the intercooler.

Most of the cooling actually occurs as the air flows through the fins and plates, all of which are in the natural aluminum state. The flat front part of each plate (what you see from the front of the core), doesn't actually get that much air contact, due to aerodynamic reasons. Think of part of it as an inert layer.

The end tanks are very smooth and relatively thick cast peices. Good to think of them as heat or hopefully "cool" sinks, in which case the paint may only delay the initial cooling, not affect their capacity to cool. Again, we tried for a very thin layer.

We may loose some efficacy in the cooling the pipes that will show behind the fog lights though. Those are painted, but again wanted them black for the stealth reasons.

If time/cost permitted, I would have liked to have the last pipe before the throttle body ceramic coated. Too expensive and time consuming to have done practically around here. There is a good place in the UK, but it would have cost 80 pounds for each peice to have them done, let alone the cost of shipping them both ways. We are looking into some Cool Ride (Nascar) thermal cover which we can easily install later.

Note, since we took the pictures, found out the 2 post intercooler pipes eash need to be reveresed. We did not press all the hoses in, so they will set a bit different in the car than in the photos.

All in all, very high quality kits. Thanks for Richard for conceiving this great FMIC, and also thanks to Brice and Kenny at Alamo for their commitment to make them so good.

Bryan

Modified by DE V70R at 6:55 PM 2-12-2006
 

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Re: Two bolt-on FMIC for sale!!!!! (JimLill)

Using this tool:

http://www.turbofast.com.au/tfcalc.html

You'll find that the hot side cfm is no more than 250 cfm, even on a "chipped" car.

So the 49mm = 1.92 inches or a cross-section of 0.203151 sq ft

so at 250 cfm you'll get 12000+ fpm or airspeed of 140 mph.

So what the hell does that mean.... nothing, I just find it to be an interesting fact that shows how fast air moves though the piping and why bends need to be smooth!

The NASCAR guys at Daytona have stopped using stick-on graphics to minimize aero drag!
 

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Re: Two bolt-on FMIC for sale!!!!! (JimLill)

Whew,

Good to know. When we reach 27,000 fpm, or about Mach 0.40, then I will think we will need to increase the hot side piping.

At the Reno air races, they really wax down the wings and even calibrate paint thicknesses on respective panels to get the best laminar flow on some of the wings.

Bryan
 

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Re: Two bolt-on FMIC for sale!!!!! ("R" Kelly)

Black is the best color for heat exchangers, i.e. it is high emmissivity, think of radiators, refrigerators and other cooling equipment. But, emmissivity matters most for convection cooling. Forced air cooling makes it mostly irrelevant; for example, most outside a/c coils are bare aluminum (the have high capacity fans blowing on them) and only painted for corrosion resistance--then usually black.

The coating is thin, as well, its insulating value is small--and, again, much much less than the effect of the forced air ventilation. Worried about it, still? Go faster faster and compensate.
 

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Re: Two bolt-on FMIC for sale!!!!! (MrTippy)

For comparison. Top photo was with piping used as templates. Some sort of PVC like tubing. Bottom photo shows aluminum piping in place.



 

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So honestly, what are the gains from putting said FMIC on. I understand it allows better flow of cool air but what kind of gains re we speaking of.
 

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Re: (Cementups)

When I rode in Sniz's car in texas, it was very warm outside, but even after running the car for a while, the air tube post FMIC/pre-engine was still cool to the touch.

Richard estimated it had the effect of lowering the ambient air temperature 30 degrees more than the stock intercooler, especially once heat soak sets in. So how much more HP does the R have in 60 deg temps versus 90 deg temps?

Jim, was 30 deg over stock too optimistic? I can't remember from that thread what the science said.
 

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Re: ("R" Kelly)

Quote, originally posted by "R" Kelly »
Jim, was 30 deg over stock too optimistic? I can't remember from that thread what the science said.

You can use the tool below to examine the effects of hot ambient and/or a baked intercooler. The user-entered value are close estimates by me of what an R might have. Besides the obvious values, bore/stroke etc., that are exact, the 74% turbo compressor efficiency is correct.

If you change both the intake ambient and I/C ambient, you get the effects of a hot day. Changing the I/C ambient to be higher than the intake ambient shows the effects of a baked intercooler.

You can also change the boost, it seems to be "close" to +% we use. Note that the cfm is on the atmospheric side, the same value that effects the AFR.

http://not2fast.wryday.com/tur...le=85
 

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Re: (JimLill)

What follows may be one of those "rhetorical" questions (unfortunately)...

"So, how much better is the Svenske/Alamo intercooler, anyway?"
 

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Re: (Dyno)

Quote, originally posted by Dyno »
What follows may be one of those "rhetorical" questions (unfortunately)...

"So, how much better is the Svenske/Alamo intercooler, anyway?"

how much better than stock??

quite a bit. It will keep you from doing this
in weather above 70F. It will really help if you plan on upping the boost in the future too.
 

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Re: (sniz)

Quote, originally posted by sniz »
how much better than stock?? quite a bit.
I was hoping for something more quantitative and less qualitative. Not much data out there that I can see.
 

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Re: (Dyno)

Quote, originally posted by Dyno »
I was hoping for something more quantitative and less qualitative. Not much data out there that I can see.

Way too many variables. Outside air temps, heat soak, different mods...

But like I said, when Richard was actively pursuing the research, he was saying their FMIC was equivalent to dropping outside air temp 30 degrees. Jim has a tool that shows affect of IAT on performance.
 

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Re: ("R" Kelly)

FWIW....

With the current IC you'll see an estimated +/- 10% swing in HP over the temp range of 0 to 125 deg F ambient

In theory, a really good I/C might give you +7 % more power across that range. The effects of cooling become more difficult to estimate below 40F however.

That means a good I/C could add 22 BHP to a stock motor, in theory
 

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Re: (Dyno)

Quote, originally posted by Dyno »

I was hoping for something more quantitative and less qualitative. Not much data out there that I can see.

At stock boost, there is a 2 psi pressure drop across the stock IC core, so the IC is a major restriction in the intake path. This intercooler has only a 1/2 psi pressure drop. I am not sure on the tempurature difference with stock boost (Kelly heard approx 30 better than stock).

The real beauty comes when you crank up the boost. At 20.5psi,and 40F ambient there is a 3psi drop with the stock intercooler, and under 1 psi drop with an upgrade. Also the tempurature difference is 100 deg F cooler in the intake temp the engine sees (stock vs mod). Remember, the higher you crank the boost, the hotter the compressed air tempurature becomes and there is a significant difference at 20+ psi. So it will help even in the cooler climates, by quite a bit.

So it can help some with stock boost settings, but the real reason is to help cool the intake with the higher boosts. Also removing the intake restrictions also reduces the turbos pre-intecooler temps, as it doesn't have to work as hard to "push"the air though, especially at higher boosts.

Also, the cooler your intake air, generally the cooler the exhaust temp will be, thus taking more heat stress out of the engine.

One other point worth making. Larger turbos used to build high boost at high rpms, will likely heat the air less than trying to push the relatively small K24 to 21psi at 7000rpms (high volume, high psi), so they need this intercooler somewhat less than the stock one might. This is NOT to say that a larger turbo should not have a larger intercooler (it should), but that the stock turbo with high boost/volume desperately needs it more.

This is all oversimplified, but gets the main points out there. I would definately say it is worth it if ECU tuning can take advantage of its benefits.

Bryan

Modified by DE V70R at 5:41 PM 2-13-2006
 

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Re: (DE V70R)

The main purpose of an intercooler is to increase the density of the air charge in the intake manifold. The best quantitative measure of this is the density ratio (intake manifold density/compressor out density). More commonly, intercooler effectiveness is quoted, where effectiveness is defined as the actual heat transfer divided by the ideal heat transfer. After you do the algebra, it shakes out like this...

Effectiveness = (Tcomp-Tintercooler out)/(Tcomp - Tambient)

I accept the fact that most "tuners" (I hate that word) will give you a blank stare if you ask about density ratio or intercooler effectiveness, but I'd at least want to see actual WOT temperature data.

From what I recall of Jim's experiences, IMT is really quite low on these cars. Could be tough to beat.
 
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