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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had the turbo back from Majestic with the K26 turbine wheel, a larger compressor, and other mods (more on that later). I also had the exhaust manifold from Johann to port match to the head gaskets and to the turbo. Thanks Johann. I was to go to RICA last week, but an error code, likely due from the exhaust gasker leak at the head/exhaust manifold on cyl. #5. So that presented an opportune time to have the new manifold and turbo installed. What cool dealers here in Germany. I miss the great guys at Wittlich Volvo, but am starting off well with the Homburg dealer too. 350 Euro to R&R the manifold and turbo and check all my codes with it. FYI, I am at 58000 miles so warranty is no longer an issue. All the same, enjoy the great dealers over here.

Got to RICA monday am and had the car on the dyno to check out the new turbo. Resulting dyno will be posted so you can see the difference. Stock the car was at 298 on the type of dyno they use (Johann can chime in on that), 335 with the ECU upgrade, and about 363 with the Majestic turbo.
The added oomph is all basically at 5000 and up, which is exactly where I wanted the addition.

I had the turbo spec'd a bit tamer from Svenske's original upgrade from Majestic. My goal was specific increases for the autobahn while keeping it very drivable for around town. I wanted 100% bolt on changes. No welding or new wastegates, blowoff valves etc.

I will have photos of the turbo available soon, so you can see the changes compared to stock.

What is the current verdict? Honestly, I was hoping for 375-380hp, and the turbo was thought to be spec'd for more than that. With the turbo mods as are, it is still the limiting factor in upper rpm power. The programming is set for 1.3 bar (19.1psi), but the turbo cannot keep that boost level all the way to redline. They had to change the programming quite a bit to accomodate the turbo, but in doing so, also greatly smoothed out the part throttle midrange area.

Driving back through the speed limit zones that are Netherlands and Belgium is torture. You just want to open the car up and have to keep the reins in. When I got to the Autobahn in Germany, I was met by mist and slippery roads. It was not until on thge A62 south towards Ramstein that I got dry roads. Though was able to reach 174mph with the previous stock turbo RICA upgrade, I did not have a clear enough lane to try for Vmax, but definately notice high speeds are easier to maintain, especially going up inclines. I was able to hit about 170mph trying to keep a W12 Phaeton at bay, but did not surpass that speed due to the sweeping nature of the curve we were in at the time. There was definately more in 'er, but traffic ahead kept things subtle. Subjectively, I would say the comfort and sweet spot effort for the engine has increased high speed cruising by about 10mph over before. I.E.- It used to maintain 155mph up certain hills, but will now surpass 165mph in the same place.

The shift from one gear to the next is now significantly more satisfying, particularly going from 4-5 and 5-6. Shift just past 7200, and feel an immediate pull coming on the next gear, with decent acceleration even at the higher autobahn speeds. While I am certain it is improved in the lower gears, the delta seems more profound at the higher speeds.

I am going to drive a while like this but may talk to Majestic and consider a bit more aggressive compressor wheel and more cut back on the turbine wheel. The crew at RICA has been awesome through all this, adjusting to my schedule when I could not get in last week. They are ready to have me back if/when I do another turbo mod, and will also have their version of PPC soon.

It is thought that the turbo can provide much more boost in the midrange, but boost is specifically limited by the ECU mod to keep it out of detonation. While I am very happy with the FMIC setup, I am considering H2O/methanol inj. for its anti-detonant properties if it would help keep detonation at bay at high boost in the 2000-4500 or so range.

Happy motoring

DE V70R

Modified by DE V70R at 10:09 PM 9-19-2006
 

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Re: turbo for the masses?? (DE V70R)

Thanks for posting the info. Keep up the good work... I am counting on you.


Seriously though, I have been wanting to know the outcome of this for a little while now. Hope it all works out for you. http://********************/smile/emthup.gif

Just another thought, can a K26 be bolted on? I am sure the answer is no because you would have done that. Just thought I would ask.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: turbo for the masses?? (Rangeball)

There is no K26, nor any other turbo that will bolt in. Sad, as I could upgrade my Mitsubishi 4G63 engine very easy. Open the book, select your turbo and order it up.

This particular K24 is specific to Volvo. Back when I contacted K3 turbos, they said that they could not even sell the same turbo, that it was licenced to only be sold through Volvo. I think it would be great if there was enought demand for a company in the aftermarket to cast a meatier turbine housing that would bolt in. Meatier in the sense that it could take a bigger turbine wheel.
 

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Re: turbo for the masses?? (DE V70R)

OK, since Bryan is probably sleeping by now, here is his dyno sheet. This shows all three dynos he mentioned above, including hp and torque. The bold line is the latest.



Close-up color pic of the same dyno



Modified by speedemon at 12:15 PM 9-21-2006
 

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Re: turbo for the masses?? (DE V70R)

That is a pisser about the K24. I learn something new every day. Well maybe if we keep screaming some one out there will listen. "WE WANT BOLT ONS!!"


Hope it all works out for you and keep me/us the curious public up to date.


Modified by Rangeball at 8:13 PM 9-19-2006
 

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these dyno numbers sound ilke crank hp not wheel hp.... 298 stock? 335 w/chip?

can anyone chime in and interpret these numbers?

what other mods does this car have and how would it's hp numbers compare to a car with the basic "ECU/dp/exhaust" bolt ons?
 

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Re: (23109VC)

Read the chart again. it has WHP on there (246HP). 32% drivetrain loss on AWD.

speedemon - what's that squiggly line? Is that boost? It looks like it's all over the place.
 

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Re: (23109VC)

Quote, originally posted by 23109VC »
these dyno numbers sound ilke crank hp not wheel hp.... 298 stock? 335 w/chip?

can anyone chime in and interpret these numbers?

what other mods does this car have and how would it's hp numbers compare to a car with the basic "ECU/dp/exhaust" bolt ons?

These are crank HP results calculated from measured wheel power and and drivetrain loss.
During these dyno runs the rollers create resistance to emulate the load which is on a car when it is driving the streets. Something different than the innertia dyno results posted by many other people on this forum because these dyno runs hardly see any resistance.
The difference is that with the loaded runs you can see better when an engine wants to detonate because the engine needs to work a lot harder. Also the boost will be more stable in many cases but the downside is the heat development and a lot of friction of tires in the rollers. This is why I suggest not to look at these wheel numbers because you simply can't compare them with the innertia dyno wheel results.
The load dyno actually measures torque. The innertia dyno calculates torque as a function of rotating mass accelerating over time.

We have discussed these systems many times before. No need to start a fight on the actual numbers I think. Because of the posted baseline you can roughly see the gain percentage you might expect from the various upgrades.

The base dyno is pretty accurate. With Bryan and Jesse's car this was including the CAI setup and the larger intercoolers. What it showed was that the intercoolers didn't have any problems with a somewhat higher temperatures during the dyno sessions. At the time a couple of runs were done spraying the front of the car which didn't bring anything so the IC's were functioning very well. On a stock IC you can see a difference when sprayed.

Jesse's car did a bit less baseline and a bit more tuned. Bryan's car appeared to have a small leak in the IC system when tuned with the stock turbo back in March. From what I recall Jesse's car made near 345 crank HP, Bryan's car average 5 HP less. I think it saw a small peak of 342 crank HP but it was hardly worth mentioning. No more dyno after that and Bryan was sent home with the advice to change hose clamps, which he did.

For this dyno, completely new install back in March, and the older dyno the stock R's measure torque between 280 and 288 lb-ft. The crank power shows 296 up to 303 HP. These are the results of some 40+ R's tested during countless sessions on those dyno's.

In most cases temperatures, boost and fuel were OK. In some case fuel went richer at the higher end.
When chipped the boost reads a bit lower on the dyno compared to when driven on the street.

Chip results are near 325-330 crank HP for the consumer chip. Some do a bit higher, some lower.
With a Downpipe, filter and exhaust results up to 340 HP have been seen, with the larger intercooler like the ones Jesse and Bryan use the whole curve appears more stable and results show ~5 HP gain. This mainly because the boost appears to stay slightly higher during dyno runs.

Now with the reworked turbo the results showed 362 HP and a nice mid torque behavior.
At redline there is still over 340 crank HP left which is very good considering how bad a stock KKK-K24 does but disappointing considering what has been promised. When looking at the upgrade as is without the projected specs I think the results are strong. The car drove great on the highway and felt smooth all the way.

My personal opinion on this whole project, very nice results for a "drop in" upgrade but I have my doubts with the durability of the turbine. The turbo upgrade itself isn't that very expensive compared to ball bearing turbo prices and the more work needed to fit it to the car but when adding a new turbo to the price it is pretty costly. Still not as costly as my favourite the HKS-GT2835 pro S ..

After the upgrade the turbine really is totally completely maxed out.

Bryan's input has been great. The care for detail with the porting. Preparing the upgrade etc. evenconsidering it didn't start that well..


Now let's see if Majestic or ATP are willing to cast a larger turbine housing for the R.. (And all other Volvo models which can use this turbo) http://********************/smile/emthup.gif
 

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Re: (Johann)

Not a clue what the squiggly line is.

Here is a list of engine mods that Bryan and I both have:
--Ferrita 3" down pipe and cat
--Ferrita exhaust with the center resonator removed and replaced with "Burns Steel" custom straight pipe (the Y transition is much more efficient).
--Over the engine (OTE) pipe mod: http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=55105
--FMIC install: http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=53553
--RICA tune

Here is what Bryan has in addition to mine:
--The Volvo KKK K24 (w/ K26 internals)
--Ported exhaust manifold
--Custom RICA tune per the above dyno sheet

We both have many other mods too numerous to list
 

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Re: (speedemon)

I never saw the OTE thread. I guess I now have another project to add. I agree I am all about freeing up hp. Well, adding too.

Thanks for posting the dyno. I would think the squiggly line would be A/F but I could be mistaken.

Quote, originally posted by Johann »
Now let's see if Majestic or ATP are willing to cast a larger turbine housing for the R.. (And all other Volvo models which can use this turbo) http://********************/smile/emthup.gif

http://********************/smile/emthup.gif http://********************/smile/emthup.gif http://********************/smile/emthup.gif
 

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Re: (speedemon)

Quote, originally posted by speedemon »
Not a clue what the squiggly line is.

Fuel.
 

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Re: (Rangeball)

The OTE mod may only be available on the 2004 and 2005 models which have the aluminum OTE pipe. On the 2006 and I'm assuming the 2007 they have a plastic OTE pipe. These may not need this mod or if done may not be strong enough to make this area thinner.
 

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Re: (Johann)

Johann, Great summary!
 

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Re: (Johann)

Quote, originally posted by Johann »


Fuel.

How is that measured and recorded? MAHA also reads boost. I take it that it wasn't taken with these dyno runs?
 

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Re: (mike_c70)

In this case they used a Zeitronix wideband connected to the MAHA.

Have seen many brands wideband sensors at their place. AEM, Innovate, Zeitronix, whatever, you name it.

Boost wasn't connected but a gauge was installed in the car during the dyno session.
 

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Re: (Johann)

Thanks DE V70R & Johann for the info on the turbo upgrade. Is the any power/Dyno info about what the guy with modded Turbo from Turbo Tap was putting out?
 

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Re: turbo for the masses?? (DE V70R)

1.3 Bar doesn't seem like a great accomplishment since i can hold the same (well between 1.2 and 1.3) on a stock turbo. This is with a base map from RICA.

Since you have a RICA tune too....do you get very high boost spikes too? I pass the 1.8Bar line pretty often when i get on it. wastegate issue?
 

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Re: turbo for the masses?? (fischmama)

Quote, originally posted by fischmama »
1.3 Bar doesn't seem like a great accomplishment since i can hold the same (well between 1.2 and 1.3) on a stock turbo. This is with a base map from RICA.

Since you have a RICA tune too....do you get very high boost spikes too? I pass the 1.8Bar line pretty often when i get on it. wastegate issue?

1.3 bar on a bigger compressor (and bigger turbine) = more power than the same boost on a smaller turbo.

It should most definitely not spike to 1.8 bar. Surprised it doesnt go into limp mode for that.
 

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Re: turbo for the masses?? (DE V70R)

Bryan has sent me the pics of the stock and majestic turbo. They are in pairs, first is the stock pic and next is the Stock Volvo KKK K24 housing with K26 internals custom tailored to Bryans specs and very professionally done by Majestic turbo. Each caption is per Bryans request.


Stock turbine exducer


Majestic exducer


Stock compressor inlet


Majestic compressor inlet


Stock compressor wheel


Majestic upgraded compressor wheel


Stock turbine


Majestic K-26 turbine


Stock turbine


Majestic K-26, note 7 degree angle cut at top of
blades to allow greater airflow
 
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